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Discuss films and filmmakers of the 20th century (and even a little of the 19th century). Threads may contain spoilers.
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Wittsdream
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#101 Post by Wittsdream » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:28 pm

neal wrote:That's 1/15 of the alloted time, actually.
Clever thing you. Now if you really want to be of service, get me a dvd copy of this film :wink:.

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Cold Bishop
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#102 Post by Cold Bishop » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:56 pm

Wittsdream wrote:CB, the only running times listed on ANY site (TCM, IMDB, Senses of Cinema) were either 98 minutes or 103 minutes. The cut presented last night was the longest cut I have ever seen for Powell's film: 107 minutes. When coupled with the opening intro with Osborne and Schoonmaker, the total program running time approached 112 minutes, not the 105 minutes that the cable provider carved out. That's a 7 minute discrepancy (not a fraction by any means).

Someone keeps dropping the ball on these "rare" presentations, and I am more than a little convinced that it is motivated by commerce, and nothing else.

Preminger's "Skidoo," Fuller's "Park Row" and Tourneur's "Nightfall" are slated for the January TCM schedule. None of them is available on DVD anywhere in the world. I'll heed your advice this time around and record 6 films just to get the 3 that I really want, then find a way to patch the overlaps together with Final Cut Pro. Is this 2007?

These are the hoops that TCM is asking us to go through if we want to retain a personal copy of their presentation. I thought the entire point of placing their logo on the lower right third of the screen at half hour intervals was to prevent illegal copying?

I spend $100 a month on cable bill so that I have the RIGHT to watch and RECORD anything I want for my own personal enjoyment. Has something changed since 1978?

Very despondent that I do not have a copy of this rare Powell film to show to my friends over the holidays.
I do see it listed as 107 minutes at the TCM site... Maybe it was only added after the fact, but it could have helped checking (but if it was misprinted elsewhere, it really is no fault of your own. Was there any indication that these was gonna be a longer cut beforehand?). I'm not saying it doesn't suck, but I'm telling you, it has nothing to do with a conspiracy on making people pay with the DVD, since as far as I can tell these films have no sign of being on DVD soon. It was a dumb mistake on posting the wrong time.

My guess is there will be a bootleg of some sort emerging soon, if not a DVD announcement. Hell, try emailing TCM. Maybe enough complaints about their DVR running-time debacles will make them do something about it, and maybe even reshow these films some time soon.

Wittsdream
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#103 Post by Wittsdream » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:08 pm

Cold Bishop wrote:I do see it listed as 107 minutes at the TCM site... Maybe it was only added after the fact
That is exactly what happened! Some nifty little stage hand at that place very deceptively changed the running time afterwards. In fact, the engineer spinning the dials last night probably said something like, "damn, this film IS longer than 103 minutes."

I'm already in contact with some people who apparently made a copy of the film last night from their computer hard drive.

Anyhoo, based on some of Schoonmaker's comments last night and the very evident restoration job done in presenting a director's cut of the film, I am confident that Sony will be issuing this film in one of its markets (R1 or R2) very soon.

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Cold Bishop
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#104 Post by Cold Bishop » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:14 pm

Wittsdream wrote:Cold Bishop wrote:
I do see it listed as 107 minutes at the TCM site... Maybe it was only added after the fact
That is exactly what happened! Some nifty little stage hand at that place very deceptively changed the running time afterwards. In fact, the engineer spinning the dials last night probably said something like, "damn, this film IS longer than 103 minutes."

I'm already in contact with some people who apparently made a copy of the film last night from their computer hard drive.

Anyhoo, based on some of Schoonmaker's comments last night and the very evident restoration job done in presenting a director's cut of the film, I am confident that Sony will be issuing this film in one of its markets (R1 or R2) very soon.
I'm sure they will, but I'm not convinced its soon enough to warrant any kind of accusation they are trying to force you to buy there DVDs. Not to mention TCM was the channel showing Seven Men From Now the weekend before it made its DVD premier (maybe the weekend after, but same idea), and that surely isn't the only time.

Wittsdream
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#105 Post by Wittsdream » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:43 pm

Cold Bishop wrote:I'm sure they will, but I'm not convinced its soon enough to warrant any kind of accusation they are trying to force you to buy there DVDs.
I'm confused as to what you mean. It was never alleged that TCM is forcing anyone to buy their DVDs. I would love the opportunity to buy EVERYTHING TCM offers over the air on DVD. In fact, if TCM were to announce (as they often do) that a DVD release of a broadcast of theirs is imminent, having a copy of it on DVD-R would not preclude an upgrade for the official DVD release. It never has! Typically, you can read between the lines: Janus logo preceding the film = eventual Criterion release, etc.

The problem with films like Losey's "These are the Damned" and Powell's "Age of Consent" is that there is no news on the horizon or peep from the rumor mill that these films are awaiting DVD release. And not having a homemade DVD-R as a stopgap is that much more frustrating. After all, we are talking about two rare films from key British filmmakers that have never been presented uncut to a North American audience until their TCM debut. Having a copy of that momentous occasion for posterity seems like a no-brainer.

And TCM should be accommodating cinephiles, and not distancing them. At the very least, the left hand at the cable providers does not know what the right hand at TCM is doing.

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#106 Post by neal » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:45 pm

Wittsdream wrote:
neal wrote:That's 1/15 of the alloted time, actually.
Clever thing you. Now if you really want to be of service, get me a dvd copy of this film :wink:.
I wish. I've not had the opportunity to see of Powell's Australian films. Though, if I get my hands on them, I'll certainly pass that info along.

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Cold Bishop
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#107 Post by Cold Bishop » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:26 pm

Wittsdream wrote:I'm confused as to what you mean. It was never alleged that TCM is forcing anyone to buy their DVDs. I would love the opportunity to buy EVERYTHING TCM offers over the air on DVD. In fact, if TCM were to announce (as they often do) that a DVD release of a broadcast of theirs is imminent, having a copy of it on DVD-R would not preclude an upgrade for the official DVD release. It never has! Typically, you can read between the lines: Janus logo preceding the film = eventual Criterion release, etc.
Wittsdream wrote:I guess it's all about forcing you to buy the eventual dvd because you missed the critical final moments of these films. A$$holes!!
Maybe you're misconstruing by what I mean by theirs, but that statement of yours surely implicates that TCM and the studios are doing this on purpose.

And I am not following you... Janus logo?

Regardless, I'm know TCM isn't the cinephile heaven it could be, but I hardly feel there trying to distance their viewers. This was a mistake involving DVRs, and I'm sure the majority of people still view the channel from actually watching it when it's on. You should be able to record the film and watch it, and I know its a terrible feeling to get all excited to see something rare, record it, then find something went wrong (Hell, I remember the nightmares trying to record on VCR use to be). This mistake isn't the end of the world though. And I'm willing to bet the major problem was probably from the cable providers.

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tryavna
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#108 Post by tryavna » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:32 pm

I think the real problem is that, in the cases of Age of Consent and These Are the Damned, the TCM programming department simply didn't know that they were getting the restored versions. Both films were originally distributed in the U.S. in truncated form, and I suppose the programmers at the station didn't know enough -- or simply didn't bother -- to double-check running times. Anyone whose tried to follow their showings of British films knows that this is a particularly egregious problem with TCM.

That being said, I've been in the habit of always adding 5-10 minutes of recording time to any films being shown on TCM that I haven't already seen. In the case of These Are the Damned, it wasn't enough, but luckily, I just barely managed to get all of Age of Consent. I watched it all last night and would be happy to fill anybody in on the final five minutes, if they wish.

Overall, I still haven't met a Michael Powell movie that I haven't liked in one way or another, but I have to say that I was slightly disappointed by Age of Consent. Primarily, I just didn't think that all the comedy relief worked; some of the witty visuals did, but Jack MacGowran (whom I love in Fearless Vampire Killers) really threw the rhythm of the film off-kilter for me. Helen Mirren was pretty easy on the eyes, though.

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Matt
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#109 Post by Matt » Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:39 pm

tryavna wrote:I watched it all last night and would be happy to fill anybody in on the final five minutes, if they wish.
Could you please do so in this thread? Perhaps in spoiler tags:

Code: Select all

[spoiler]babble babble babble[/spoiler]

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tryavna
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#110 Post by tryavna » Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:08 pm

Matt wrote:Could you please do so in this thread? Perhaps in spoiler tags
Sure thing:
SpoilerShow
After Granny Ryan threatens/blackmails Monahan (Mason's character), Cora (Mirren's character) discovers that Granny Ryan has found and stolen the money that Cora was hiding. Enraged, Cora storms at Granny Ryan, causing her to lose her footing at the edge of a cliff. Granny Ryan falls and breaks her neck. Monahan, who sees the stuggle, brings the body back up the cliffside, only to see the local policeman coming up the hill. While Monahan distracts the policeman, Cora apparently carries the body back down the hill to the beach (though we don't actually see this happen). She screams for help as soon as the policeman and Monahan arrive at the edge of the cliff, and she leads the policeman to believe that Granny Ryan has just then fallen to her death while stumbling around drunkenly. The policeman quickly assumes that her death was an accident, so there's no chance of Cora being tried for manslaughter.

Then we learn that the policeman had come over the island in the first place because he had caught Nat Kelly (MacGowran's character) with Monahan's wallet. So Monahan gets back his $300 and refuses to press charges against Kelly as long as Kelly leaves for good.

The final scene takes place later that evening, when Cora, whose love for Monahan is abundantly clear by now, asks coyly if she can spend the night at his shack -- understandably not wanting to spend the night with the body of her grandmother, which is to be transported to the mainland the following day. Monahan agrees but is still totally clueless about Cora's feelings for him, saying merely that she is "the best model I've ever had." Thinking that that's all she and her body mean to him, Cora runs out of the shack and dives into the surf. Monahan, unsure of what she's up to, chases after her. They have a confrontation in the surf, with Cora diving under the water and swimming around so as to avoid listening to Monahan's efforts to rationalize exactly what she means to him. Finally, it gradually dawns on Monahan that Cora loves him and that she must mean something more to him than merely being a good model. The final shot is a freeze-frame, as Cora jumps Monahan and they embrace and tumble into the water. End credits roll.
The final scene between Mason and Mirren is quite nice and is obviously meant to be playing off of Mason's previous roles as an older man trying to establish a sexual relationship with a much younger woman (e.g., Lolita, Georgy Girl, etc.). In Powell's hands, however, it doesn't seem creepy at all. Clearly, it is Cora who is attempting to initiate the romance and not Monahan, who clarifies his own attitude much earlier in the film with the great line: "When it comes to sex, I'm a camel."

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Matt
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#111 Post by Matt » Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:56 pm

Thanks. I have the film (minus the last few minutes) sitting on my TiVo waiting for me to decide to watch it, knowing I won't see the end of it, or to just delete it and hope for a DVD or a re-airing. With your summary of the ending, the decision is easier.

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#112 Post by TIVOLI » Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:43 pm

Recording a film usually triggers in me Post Movie-taping Syndrome, the fear that something, somehow, will have gone terribly wrong. And about once a month, that does indeed happen. Having waited for years for the chance to see Age of Consent, I consulted 3 film guides, all of which listed a running time of 104 minutes. So when I read the posting last night about a longer version, it provoked pains in the stomach. I had allowed a few minutes of extra time but was not sure if it was enough. I rushed home to discover that I had recorded the complete film with exactly one minute to spare, in all its breathtaking color. But does anyone know what three minutes had been cut and why?

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exte
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#113 Post by exte » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:49 pm

Anyone doing mythtv?

Wittsdream
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#114 Post by Wittsdream » Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:00 pm

Matt wrote:
Thanks. I have the film (minus the last few minutes) sitting on my TiVo waiting for me to decide to watch it, knowing I won't see the end of it, or to just delete it and hope for a DVD or a re-airing.
I received an e-mail response from the staff at TCM this morning about "Age of Consent" and they were apologetic about the running time goof "on their part" and plan on re-broadcasting the film this coming April.

Good news, I would say, though I am still going to record the program that follows it just in case :?.

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tryavna
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#115 Post by tryavna » Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:30 pm

Matt wrote:Thanks. I have the film (minus the last few minutes) sitting on my TiVo waiting for me to decide to watch it, knowing I won't see the end of it, or to just delete it and hope for a DVD or a re-airing. With your summary of the ending, the decision is easier.
You're welcome. Somebody did the same for me on another message board when I missed the last few minutes of These Are the Damned and so I got to see a damned good movie as a result (no pun intended). I wonder if TCM are going to reschedule that one, by the way. I still want to see those few minutes, which sound like they're shattering. (Even with only a vague sense of those final few minutes, I still count it as one of my five favorite Loseys and one of my all-time favorite sci-fis now.)

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#116 Post by Zumpano » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:27 am

Isn't it easier to set up your recording options to tape however many minutes after the program ends, instead of taping the the whole following film? I know my DVR has that option. . .

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#117 Post by tavernier » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:41 am

Ditto....I usually set my DVR to record 30 minutes past the scheduled ending time, even for something like "The Simpsons," because those damn football games often run overtime on Sundays.

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#118 Post by souvenir » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:48 pm

Over at the TCM message board, a station programmer wrote (about Age of Consent):
We will try to put it in the schedule in a few months. This was a restored version that wasn't ready until the last moment. Every source (including the earlier version that we played several years ago) had the runtime at around 100 mins., but this came to us a couple of days before the airing at around 107 mins.

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Matt
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#119 Post by Matt » Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:12 pm

Is anyone currently unable to get a cable signal from TCM? It's been out here for two days now. Fortunately, I have a backlog of about a dozen TCM films on my TiVo to make up for it.

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#120 Post by fiddlesticks » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:45 pm

Matt wrote:Is anyone currently unable to get a cable signal from TCM? It's been out here for two days now. Fortunately, I have a backlog of about a dozen TCM films on my TiVo to make up for it.
Sorry, my fault. They played a pan-and-scan version of The Tall Stranger yesterday that was so outrageously horrible that I had to go down there and blow up their building. Sorry for any inconvenience.

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Jeff
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#121 Post by Jeff » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:59 pm

fiddlesticks wrote:Sorry, my fault. They played a pan-and-scan version of The Tall Stranger yesterday that was so outrageously horrible that I had to go down there and blow up their building. Sorry for any inconvenience.
That was completely unwatchable. For those who haven't heard or witnessed my righteous indignation in the Preminger thread, they played Skidoo in pan-and-scan too.

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Matt
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#122 Post by Matt » Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:57 am

Well, TCM is back up now at any rate. If you missed Skidoo, here's the best part.

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devlinnn
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#123 Post by devlinnn » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:16 pm

(In my best Blanche)....

I've hunted high and low and can only seem to find the new TCM 2008 DVD Catalogue available through the TCM website. At $9.95, it's a bargain. But it's outrageously expensive for foreigners, as they are charging $30 shipping per book (I need two). If anyone can point me in the right direction where these may be on sale elsewhere (other than ebay) I'd be most grateful.

Better yet, if I can organise with someone here to accept a delivery, then pass it on further down the line, please PM, and we can discuss reward etc.

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#124 Post by SheriffAmbrose » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:32 pm

I read in the New York Post this morning that Rose McGowan will begin co-hosting The Essentials with Osborne beginning March eighth. An odd choice. I only wish this had happened before she so majorly messed up her face.

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#125 Post by Jeff » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:03 pm

SheriffAmbrose wrote:I read in the New York Post this morning that Rose McGowan will begin co-hosting The Essentials with Osborne beginning March eighth. An odd choice. I only wish this had happened before she so majorly messed up her face.
I'm chagrined by the devolution of the Essentials hosts:

Sydney Pollack -> Peter Bogdanovich -> Molly Haskell -> Carrie Fisher -> Rose McGowan

I can only assume that Pauly Shore is next in line.

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