Comic Books on Film

Discuss films of the 21st century including current cinema, current filmmakers, and film festivals.
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domino harvey
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#526 Post by domino harvey » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:11 pm

The statute of limitations is surely up on barring city-destroying imagery

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knives
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#527 Post by knives » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:20 pm

Air Force was made in 1943 so precedent says yes.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#528 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:20 pm

domino harvey wrote:Gross. Can we go back to being respectable in this thread and resume ogling Robbie?
Image

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captveg
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#529 Post by captveg » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:21 pm

The comics, even when intended for the very young, have used real world serious scenarios for generations. Superman and Wonder Woman fighting Nazis is a prime example.

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Jeff
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#530 Post by Jeff » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:27 pm

domino harvey wrote:Gross. Can we go back to being respectable in this thread and resume ogling Robbie?
Image

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Luke M
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#531 Post by Luke M » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:41 pm

I'm not usually a fan of Vox, but this article better articulates my thoughts on the post-9/11 superhero imagery.

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knives
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#532 Post by knives » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:00 pm

But how is that article discussing 9/11 imagery as a negative thing? It simply posits those images as a way to deal with a pain that nearly 14 years out has become a part of the cinematic visual shorthand. There's nothing offensive mentioned that isn't true of Pearl Harbor imagery during the '40s or the Viet Cong man getting shot from the '60s and '70s. The Statute of limitations on this imagery being taboo has certainly passed by now.

hollis
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#533 Post by hollis » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:33 pm

Count me among those excited for this one. The Joker picture released a few months back turned me off--does he really need "damaged" tattooed on his forehead? Who doesn't already know the Joker is crazy?--but I think the trailer makes clear they're going for something far more campy and comic book-y than Nolan's trilogy. And after The Dark Knight Rises and Man of Steel I definitely welcome that.

David Ayer isn't popular film's most exciting creative genius, but he's clearly solid as hell. Fury was way more enjoyable than I had anticipated; a sturdy script, good performances, and excellent battle scenes. Same goes for Training Day. So this is one's definitely on my list.

After months of fumbling on Warner Brothers' part, it looks like they just might have gotten things in line and will make a genuine rival to Marvel's domination of superhero multiplex entertainment. We'll see, but I hope so.

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CSM126
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#534 Post by CSM126 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:57 pm

They lost me with that dreadful cover of I Started A Joke. As if it's supposed to sound profound or something. It's almost as bad as the dirge-like cover of California Dreaming in the San Andreas trailer, or the laughable, also dirge-like, cover of Fleetwood Mac's Landslide in the Suffragette trailer. This trend needs to screw off.

Anyway, I'm not familiar with the Suicide Squad comics, so I'm not the target audience but man does this look unappealing. I'm so tired of these gray-colored dreary comic book movies with the faux-grittiness crap. Just give me something silly and fun, not this pseudo-heavy nonsense. After suffering through Nolan's terrible Batman trilogy - featuring the worst Joker imaginable - I just want something fun along the lines of Mark Hamill's animated Joker but it looks like we're getting Hot Topic douche Joker. I hope I'm wrong, but just look at that thing. Good grief.

Ok, Margot Robbie's pleasant to look at, so there's my nice comment.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#535 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:24 pm

CSM126 wrote:After suffering through Nolan's terrible Batman trilogy - featuring the worst Joker imaginable
Could you please let me know how hot your take is going to be before I try to touch it and burn myself? Thanks.

wattsup32
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#536 Post by wattsup32 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:54 pm

Luke M wrote:I found the 9/11 imagery, the buildings falling, people running away from dust cloud, offensive because its used as the backdrop of a silly superhero movie.
For you, what kinds of movies would it be OK to show buildings falling and people running away from the dust cloud?

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#537 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:02 pm

I'd much rather see it done in a comic book movie disguised as a separate fictional event, then seeing a shot from the ground looking up as Tom Hanks falls from the WTC.

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domino harvey
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#538 Post by domino harvey » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:05 pm

I still can't believe Larry Crowne ended like that

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dx23
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#539 Post by dx23 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:10 pm

SpiderBaby wrote:
captveg wrote:The Metropolis battle at the end of Man of Steel occurred practically in real time, so it went on for what, half an hour? What is Wayne supposed to do exactly (looks like we'll see what he tried to do)? What if Wonder Woman was in another part of the world?
I think he meant when Zod threaten to destroy the world through electronic communication a day or so before, why would Bruce Wayne be casually going on about his day? Shouldn't the 'World's Greatest Detective' be on a hunt to find this alien Zod wants back to save the world? He and Wonder Woman knew the world was threaten before the disaster happened. Yet Bruce is shown casual while the world is about to be destroyed. Some superhero.
That's exactly what I meant. Zoe took over all communications to deliver his threat, so a veteran Bruce Wayne/Batman will certainly be a little be more proactive about being ready in case everything goes to shit instead of following the business as usual like it's shown in the trailer.

My main point is that Man of Steel is not a very good movie, mostly because it tries to deliver the message of Superman as a Jesus Christ savior while he destroy Metropolis and more in a reckless battle with Zod and friends. In addition, the script is all over the place since Snyder usually places more importance to the look than to the substance. Like I've said before, I believe Cavill is a very good Superman, but the story didn't help him at all and it's hard to trust Snyder when he hasn't made a good film since 300. He's become a Michael Bay one trick pony director/film-maker.

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captveg
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#540 Post by captveg » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:25 pm

Well, you won't get me agreeing with most of that, since I love Man of Steel and think the criticisms toward it border on the ridiculous.

I'm tired of reading that Superman destroyed Metropolis. It's a blatantly false statement. Zod and the World Engine destroyed Metropolis and put 7 billion lives at risk of extermination. Superman stopped the World Engine thereby saving those lives. Then Zod refuses to yield and intends to cause the most destruction and death possible, with a first-day-on-the-job-with-no-experience-in-a-battle-this-large Superman doing his best to stop him. It's an extreme circumstance that Superman is gonna learn from. I find it funny that people criticize him for not being the perfect, big picture realizing battle vet when in the context of the film that would be rather absurd.

It's not just the destruction that Batman will be upset with, but rather the cultural dynamics of extreme worshipers, extreme protesters, and very likely Luthor manipulation of both. I imagine this will be mediated by Wonder Woman, Alfred, and actually talking things out with Supes. But in the meantime, some comic throwdowns are to be had.

This isn't to say Superman can't learn to be a better and wiser hero going forward. And I imagine the time between the films and in this film itself will show that.

Also, Watchmen is a very good film, IMO. Both it and Man of Steel are much better than 300, IMO.

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dx23
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#541 Post by dx23 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:37 pm

captveg wrote:
dx23 wrote:Will Smith being Will Smith instead of Deadshot
Deadshot isn't exactly the most defined personality in the DC world. A little Will Smith may make a rather blank canvas be a little more attractive to general audiences.
Actually, both Deadshot and the Suicide Squad have been pretty well developed in the DC world. Floyd Lawton has always been portrayed as a cocky villain who has no concerns for human life and that is very good at his job of being a mercenary hitman. The Suicide Squad concept is about an off the record government agency putting together a group of super-villains to protect the world from the Justice League/superhero community. Like, I've mentioned before, the episode Task Force X perfectly shows what the Squad is for and how casualties are simply part of the mission. Will Smith can act cocky, but as it was mentioned before in this thread, his line delivery in the trailer made him sound like the same character from Independence Day or Bad Boys.

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captveg
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#542 Post by captveg » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:40 pm

I just don't feel a cocky hit man is much of a developed personality, even in the established comics. The character has more room for interpretation than Harley, the latter who has a rather specific psychology to her. At least IMO.

But Will Smith the superstar persona has never distracted me in his films, personally, either, so...

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dx23
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#543 Post by dx23 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:52 pm

I remember seeing Superman fighting the 2 other Kryptonians in the middle of the small town and not having any concerns of blowing up gas stations and Sears to crap instead of just simply taking the fight to the middle of a desert or an iceberg, where no one is around. Again, it was done this way by Snyder because it's cooler for him to see buildings fall and Denny's destroyed than having these same people fight in around in boring setbacks.

Superman is supposed to be the contrasting light to Batman's darkness. He's supposed to show the people that he isn't a menace like Luthor and other humans paint him to be. In the comic books and other media properties, they've shown that Kal-El is smart enough to not put himself in situations where other people can get harmed. Yes, Metropolis has been destroyed and rebuilt countless of times, but you see an effort in the writers to put Superman as being concern that things are falling down around him. In Man of Steel, they don't show the slightest concern in painting him in this manner. Instead, he doesn't mind using his surroundings to take advantage in the fight, even if that cause buildings to fall over innocent people. It's like Snyder saw The Avengers and said to himself that he could do this destruction 10 times bigger and with more explosions. Even in The Avengers, you see the concern with the team and the cops of evacuating the city and seeing that everyone is safe.

I'm not that much of a fan of Grant Morrison, but I'll give him his due: He wrote Superman at his best in All-Star Superman. I believe Snyder went the complete opposite of Morrison and showed Superman at almost his worst: the reckless, all-powerful alien who is too insecure to understand his responsibilities as a superhero.

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captveg
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#544 Post by captveg » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:13 pm

First. Day. On. The. Job.

Think rookie cop WITHOUT the academy training.

He was also outnumbered significantly by the Kryptonians (there were more than two). For example, in the Smallville battle when he takes a moment to save a couple soldiers one of the Kryptonians uses that time to kill a jet pilot. It's hardly a perfect scenario for him to perfectly handle everything.

Yes, we see the Avengers trying to keep the populace safe. But they are also more experienced at it, and multiple in number. And yet people still died, because there's no way they didn't. But, hey, one-liners. Funsies!

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carmilla mircalla
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#545 Post by carmilla mircalla » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:59 am

dx23 wrote:I remember seeing Superman fighting the 2 other Kryptonians in the middle of the small town and not having any concerns of blowing up gas stations and Sears to crap instead of just simply taking the fight to the middle of a desert or an iceberg, where no one is around. Again, it was done this way by Snyder because it's cooler for him to see buildings fall and Denny's destroyed than having these same people fight in around in boring setbacks.

Superman is supposed to be the contrasting light to Batman's darkness. He's supposed to show the people that he isn't a menace like Luthor and other humans paint him to be. In the comic books and other media properties, they've shown that Kal-El is smart enough to not put himself in situations where other people can get harmed. Yes, Metropolis has been destroyed and rebuilt countless of times, but you see an effort in the writers to put Superman as being concern that things are falling down around him. In Man of Steel, they don't show the slightest concern in painting him in this manner. Instead, he doesn't mind using his surroundings to take advantage in the fight, even if that cause buildings to fall over innocent people. It's like Snyder saw The Avengers and said to himself that he could do this destruction 10 times bigger and with more explosions. Even in The Avengers, you see the concern with the team and the cops of evacuating the city and seeing that everyone is safe.

I'm not that much of a fan of Grant Morrison, but I'll give him his due: He wrote Superman at his best in All-Star Superman. I believe Snyder went the complete opposite of Morrison and showed Superman at almost his worst: the reckless, all-powerful alien who is too insecure to understand his responsibilities as a superhero.
You have got to be kidding me. You ever think about the fact that Zod and his henchmen didn't give him much of a choice BUT to fight in populated areas? Or the fact that a flight or fight response while quarreling with Zod or his crew was the reason why Superman couldn't personally break away and god bless every incidental death? If he had absolutely no concerns about people dying he would have let Zod fry that family into a Stouffer's dinner at the end. Those innocent lives? It's called collateral damage. It tends to happen in real life when wars break out. Superman never directly killed anyone that was human and what basis do you have that he had no concern?

To add To captveg's post, he was raised on earth with human morals and ethics. He was never nurtured in his own native environment so how could he possibly know what to do when coincidentally his first real fight in his life is against lifeforms that are the same race he is who have a slightly bigger advantage than him by living their whole lives on Krypton and learning to live by a completely different set of standards?

You seem to be obsessed with the legacy and iconography that Superman has traditionally been portrayed in pop culture. You're basically asking why would anyone want to reinterpret those values to give more complexity to character dynamics and non physical conflict for a beloved property that s been around for decades.

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feihong
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#546 Post by feihong » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:37 am

I usually feel like the DC stuff is aimed at someone who is not me, in general. Comic books, movies, everything. Though I do have a little Superdeformed Batman toy on a shelf somewhere. It's really cute and I'm not made of stone.

This trailer gives me the same sensation as other DC properties. I don't see anything much to like. This and the Batman vs. Superman trailer both have a production design and a cinematography very like very dark videogames. I wonder if they are doing that on purpose, to distinguish their material from Marvel? It doesn't make me excited for the movie. I was not moved by Margot Robbie in Wolf of Wall Street. Here she actually looks more sympathetic to me, though I guess since she plays a psychopath I shouldn't get my hopes up. And like CSM126 I am sick to death of the trend where they run the trailer with a slow song by a solo singer. It has not worked for me even once. I thought it was the worst thing about the Age of Ultron trailers.

I wonder if this is what it feels like to be someone going into the movie with no comic background? For the Marvel stuff I have a lot of background interest, and like many comic fans, I'm thrilled when a comic adaptation doesn't suck. But this is a property I have no comic book experience with beforehand. I feel very disoriented by what I see in the trailer. It's kind of a new experience for me.

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captveg
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Re: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, 2016)

#547 Post by captveg » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:40 am

At the core to me, I don't get why we can have a movie like Batman Begins (deservedly) praised for showing the evolution of Wayne's Batman persona and ethical standards in their primary stages, which then was followed up on in the subsequent films, but then when they try that with Superman there are complaints about him not being the fully formed, matured version of the character. Nolan's Batman "doesn't have to save you, either" moment with Ra's Al Ghul had a few detractors screaming "THE BATMAN DOESN'T KILL" but most of us shrugged it off because the context of the film was that it was a younger, inexperienced Batman still defining his role and boundaries. The next film explored what the character established in that regard in the offscreen year between films quite extensively. And then in the third film the character directly pays for that decision with Ra's (whether one likes the handling of that in TDKR or not)

Can we give Superman the same chance and not need him to be the 100% idealized version of the character in the very moment he emerges from the cocoon? We're gonna get at least five films with him in the DCCU as played by Cavill (Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, Justice League Part 1, JL P2, and a Man of Steel sequel). That's plenty of time for him to evolve into the perfect ideal of the character, IMO.

Zot!
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#548 Post by Zot! » Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:59 pm

feihong wrote:And like CSM126 I am sick to death of the trend where they run the trailer with a slow song by a solo singer. It has not worked for me even once.
I don't think it was used in the trailer, but the Nancy Sinatra/Lee Hazlewood rendition of My Baby Shot Me Down from Kill Bill, I think was one of Tarantino's more inspired needle drops, in a strong field. It helps that the song is gorgeous and inspired to begin with.

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feihong
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#549 Post by feihong » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:55 am

That was cool. But as I recall, that was played during the opening credits of Kill Bill. I'm not objecting to the use of that kind of music in movies in general––just its use in recent trailers, like Suicide Squad, San Andreas, Age of Ultron and stuff––and the particular way they choose to use those songs. I don't think it provides as much atmosphere and context as these trailer-editors think it does.


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