Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

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HitchcockLang
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 1:43 pm

Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1126 Post by HitchcockLang » Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:13 pm

So much for The Good, the Bad and the Wookie: A Star Wars Story...

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Ribs
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1127 Post by Ribs » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:51 pm

So weird to see the press adopting "A Star Wars Story" as part of the title when the last film didn't actually use it.

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Big Ben
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1128 Post by Big Ben » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:02 pm

The photoshops of this have been pretty great if you're into that sort of thing.

The reveal with the sign feels comical to me. It's meant to be a big reveal but it just sort of sputters of of the gate.

HitchcockLang
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1129 Post by HitchcockLang » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:15 am

Ribs wrote:So weird to see the press adopting "A Star Wars Story" as part of the title when the last film didn't actually use it.
All the marketing materials, posters, novelization, trailers, etc. used the Rogue One: A Star Wars Story moniker but you are correct that the actual title card simply said "Rogue One" (and in a rather bland font). I wonder if Solo will simply say "Solo" for the title card though. Somehow, it just doesn't seem to carry as much weight on its own.

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Dr Amicus
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1130 Post by Dr Amicus » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:53 am

Wouldn't want anyone to confuse it with any other film which perhaps has the same name...

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Big Ben
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1131 Post by Big Ben » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:59 pm

Rian Johnson to create New Star Wars Trilogy.

They must have really liked The Last Jedi huh?

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Ribs
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:14 pm

Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1132 Post by Ribs » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:21 pm

They're also developing a full on, live action Star Wars show for the Disney streaming service. George Lucas had Matthew Graham write 100 episodes of his vision of a Star Wars show, and that won't be this, obviously, but it'll be interesting to see if they try and draw on that lore in any way.

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Clarence
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1133 Post by Clarence » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:39 pm

Johnson’s trilogy—being produced with Ram Bergman—will be separate from the Skywalker Saga of the prequel, original, and sequel trilogies, and will “introduce new characters from a corner of the galaxy that Star Wars lore has never before explored.”
Exciting news! My biggest complaint about these new movies is how heavily they've relied on the original trilogy. I just hope Disney doesn't interfere too much and really lets Johnson make something interesting and original, though I may be being too optimistic here.

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solaris72
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1134 Post by solaris72 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:14 pm

Ribs wrote:They're also developing a full on, live action Star Wars show for the Disney streaming service. George Lucas had Matthew Graham write 100 episodes of his vision of a Star Wars show, and that won't be this, obviously, but it'll be interesting to see if they try and draw on that lore in any way.
I bet they will. I know they've drawn on some of it for the animated series Star Wars Rebels and (in a very minor way) for the two post-Lucas live action movies (in developing the idea of the "Church of the Force").

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Luke M
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1135 Post by Luke M » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:05 pm

The reviews are coming in and they’re overwhelmingly positive.

Eric Kohn at Indiewire calls it the most satisfying Star Wars movie since Empire Strikes Back

beamish13
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1136 Post by beamish13 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:33 pm

Having been massively disappointed by every post-1983 Star Wars film, I'm very cautious about approaching this one. However, Johnson is a tremendous director and editor and I hope it has the same spark of ingenuity that made my jaw drop and gave me frisson all over when I saw a preview of Brick in early 2006.

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Never Cursed
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1137 Post by Never Cursed » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:48 pm

Purported spoilers are beginning to appear on online publications of ranging degrees of legitimacy. I've taken a look, and some seem to be corroborated by a foreign-language review of the film by a critic who's definitely seen it. Regardless, watch out

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mfunk9786
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1138 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:55 pm

Another Star Wars film, another year of wondering what, from a plot perspective, could possibly ruin or "spoil" one's experience with a Star Wars film

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Kirkinson
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1139 Post by Kirkinson » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:49 pm

I've already read a short description of one scene that seems like it would have been a pretty neat surprise if I wasn't expecting it, and I can understand why people don't want that sense of discovery diminished, even if I'm personally not worried about it. On the other hand, I've read reactions from some hardcore fandom-types who said they had to see it twice (they went to the premiere and to a press screening) before they could appreciate it, because they felt it took some unexpected risks with Star Wars lore. So maybe knowing how the plot unfolds would actually help the people who are really invested in it.

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Big Ben
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1140 Post by Big Ben » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:32 pm

With Lucas gone a lot of things went out the window. A reminder that certain decisions that impacted the original films were made because of the possibility of toy sales.

I'm interested to see what Johnson has done. Whatever plot developments occur surely can't be as bad as what the prequels were right? Right?

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Luke M
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1141 Post by Luke M » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:07 am

Big Ben wrote:With Lucas gone a lot of things went out the window. A reminder that certain decisions that impacted the original films were made because of the possibility of toy sales.

I'm interested to see what Johnson has done. Whatever plot developments occur surely can't be as bad as what the prequels were right? Right?
I think at this point the goal has to be a Star Wars film that feels more like a sequel than fan fiction. I think Johnson has succeeded in making it his own.

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tenia
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1142 Post by tenia » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:46 am

Big Ben wrote:Whatever plot developments occur surely can't be as bad as what the prequels were right? Right?
From what I've read so far, they won't be as bad simply because they're pretty much non-existant.

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MoonlitKnight
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1143 Post by MoonlitKnight » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:02 am

Luke M wrote:I think at this point the goal has to be a Star Wars film that feels more like a sequel than fan fiction. I think Johnson has succeeded in making it his own.
Not sure how one will be able to pull off such a feat when they're making a sequel to a movie that basically was fan fiction. :-k

Cde.
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1144 Post by Cde. » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:46 am

It's an unexpectedly rich and beautiful film. The best blockbuster since Fury Road.

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MoonlitKnight
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1145 Post by MoonlitKnight » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:26 am

I can't help but think
SpoilerShow
Luke's fate was at least partially the result of Mark Hamill's fairly vocal dissatisfaction over the direction Di$ney has been taking the series -- many sentiments with which I personally agree. And a 'Force drain'?? I don't ever want to hear people complaining about Midichlorians ever again in light of this. :|

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McCrutchy
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1146 Post by McCrutchy » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:42 am

I stupidly paid over $32 dollars to see this earlier tonight at the so called "Opening Night Fan Event". I don't know why, because I could have gone to see it tomorrow at 9:00 A.M. for $11. For the extra dough, we got a "free" popcorn, a sealed pack of eight large postcards, and actually a nice featurette on John Williams' score, which was fluffly and gushing, but it's hard to complain with that when the music is so iconic.

Unfortunately, the music is the best thing about this massive corporate turd of a film. I am really disappointed, as even though I tried to avoid spoilers, I nevertheless got the feeling that Rian Johnson had made an at least somewhat daring film, that was great because it did new and interesting things with the franchise. Well, did it fuck. This is very much Disney's Star Wars, an appalingly safe film, which feels more like a theme park ride at Disneyland/Disney World than anything else.

Of course, it's well made, and as modern, digitally-created films go (yes, I know it was shot on 35mm), it looks quite good, except for one or two key sequences. The scenery and set design is very good, and the film is pretty well-edited. Most people in the audience seemed to love it, and there were multiple bursts of applause at the key character reveals and moments.

However, for me, the film played out exactly as I feared, and exactly how
SpoilerShow
the trailers hinted it would.

The plot basically is: Rey goes to train with/collect Luke, but he doesn't want to train her, because Luke is responsible for failing to train Kylo Ren/Ben Solo and save him from the Dark Side. Rey persists, because she feels Kylo/Ben has good left in him, and eventually, Luke agrees to some training. But in one of the film's sort of interesting plot devices, Rey and Kylo have a strong bond, and can see and hear each other, leading to several angry confrontations that gradually soften to friendly. Eventually, he tempts her to come for him, but in what is supposed to be shocking, Rey fails to convert Kylo, and Kylo kills Supreme Leader Snoke, taking his place, and facing off with Luke Skywalker.

While this is going on, there has also been a boring B-story with Finn (the ex-stormtrooper with the crisis of conscience) and a new character called Rose. Finn was easily the most annoying character in The Force Awakens, but here he is rightly given less to do, and the crown of annoyance falls instead to this Rose, who has to do all her character development through expository dialogue, and is there to provide PC social commentary on how a planet filled with wealthy arms dealers sucks. Together, these two get into multiple life-threatening situations, two of which are so totally absurd that one or both should have died. In one instance, Laura Dern suicides herself by piloting a Rebel cruiser into a First Order destroyer, and the resulting cataclysmic explosion mortally wounds the First Order ship, yet all of the notable occupants--including Finn and Rose, who were conveniently seconds away from execution--are unharmed. Of course, the explosion allows Finn and Rose to get the upper hand on First Order officers, kill them, and escape. Later, Finn attempts to suicide himself in the same way, with a solo vehicle, but Rose is able to literally knock him away, and crashes on her own. At this point, I was praying that she died, because it was so ridiculous that she could live through all this, and my hopes were raised when she declared her love for Finn with a surprise kiss, and then slumped down in the seat. Sadly, Finn is later shown getting her medical attention, so somehow, these two boneheads are still alive.

But of course, who dies? That's right, Luke. Yes, just like The Force Awakens and Han Solo, The Last Jedi is keen to offer a substantial role to a member of the Original Trilogy, only if that character dies and doesn't have to be in future films. So now, the entire main cast of the series (save for some supporting actors/characters) is either dead on film, or sadly, gone in real life. Admittedly, this could be viewed as a ballsy move, because Disney have basically shot their load now, and it means that Episode IX will rest entirely (or surely almost entirely) on the shoulders of the new cast, but to be honest, this is typical blockbuster formula--when someone is old/older, they're often on the cinematic chopping block. And sure, maybe Mark Hamill wanted it that way, but after dispensing with pesky septuagenarian Harrison Ford, and knowing months ago that Carrie Fisher won't be able to film any more scenes, now, Disney has basically killed off the three most important actors/characters in the Star Wars universe, in just two films. And I don't think we're in an Alec-Guinness-type situation, where Luke will come back with a substantial undead role.

In addition to this, there is another side-plot with Oscar Issac playing Po (the Tellytubby) Dameron, and that's where Laura Dern comes in, but again, it's typical Star Wars spaceship stuff. This side-plot does have Carrie Fisher, which is nice, but there is a creepy Leia-in-Space moment, where you think she is dead, but she Jedi's herself back into the ship, and this has some bad, video-game-level CGI, including a close-up of her face that is upsettingly smooth and lacking in detail. It's a shame, because much of the other CGI is fine, if not revelatory, but the production dropped the ball on that important scene. The reveal of Yoda is also botched, as initially, he has an odd, blue/purplish tint around him, making the character look very CG. The rest of his scene--yes, he gets just the one--was fine, and I was not surprised to learn Yoda was done with a puppet in this film, because he looks pretty good, for Yoda.

Additionally, there are too many humorous quips and moments that appear inappropriately throughout the film. Some of them (particularly those delivered by the older actors) are good, but many of them are too much, and in several instances, they ruined the emotional energy of a scene or sequence, as someone would say something or do something funny out of the blue. I will admit that I liked Benicio Del Toro's "codebreaker" character, but while it's probably the most intriguing of the new characters/performances, Del Toro has limited screentime, and basically just disappears after appearing in one section of the film.

The fact that these many subplots are coherently interwoven is a testament to the technical prowess on the film, but all of them are converging on the end, which is honestly, really lame. I really wanted a film that was less black-and-white, and more grey, with betrayal, trickery, and maybe, even a sense that evil prevailed--if only for the time being. That was, for me, the real strength of The Empire Strikes Back, in that it was more of a retreat-and-lick-your-wounds scenario. This was basically gift-wrapped from the get go, and it felt like Johnson's was merely executing Disney's checklist.
The worst part of it, is that I now not only have zero desire to see the young Han Solo film, but now, I have no desire to see Episode IX, either. I will own The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, but only because I loved seeing the original trilogy actors again. As far as I am concerned, Disney has gone a long way to ruining this franchise, and while their films so far have been better than (at least the first two) prequels, that is damning with faint praise, and I have to say, I expected much better from Rian Johnson, even though I can't say I'm surprised.

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All the Best People
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1147 Post by All the Best People » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:48 am

I found it a good film, and definitely a Rian Johnson film, with film noir references and
SpoilerShow
Luke engaging in a con worthy of the Brothers Bloom.
There's a lot of space battle stuff (one minor complaint I had with The Force Awakens was that it was more Atmosphere Wars than Star Wars in terms of the combat) and it is actually quite different from what we've seen in the saga prior. I also liked the Jedi material.

I like Finn a lot as a character, but found his subplot the weak link.

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tenia
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1148 Post by tenia » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:44 am

What a nightmare that was. Without a doubt, this was the most boring Star Wars movie I ever saw, and it's all the more difficult that it's also the longest ever of the franchise. It's very hard to believe that within all the possibilities offered by the franchise, this is what the people behind this movie thought would interest the viewers the most : the slowest ever pursuit of the Galaxy and a dumb-founded storyline for what turns out to be mostly totally pointless.

It's hard to pinpoint exactly what are the worst elements of the movie, the biggest reasons of such a result : the often too-shady VFX ruining the few adventurous moments (the 2 escapes from Finn & Rose, notably) ? The hilarious liberties taken with what the Force allows to do ? The stupid starting point of the whole movie ? The weirdly incorporated touches of humour ?

It probably simply can summed up by how empty the movie feels. It has nothing to tell, to the point it could have been summed up in a 15 minutes short movie.
It spends so much time having characters stunned, or sleeping, or talking telepathically in the most standing still fashion, or simply saying "we need to stall !" that the whole movie end up feeling like this is what it's doing : stalling.
I guess you could almost skip it altogether and go see Episode IX without missing much. The OST of the movie, like for Ep 7 and Rogue One, is quite telling in the way it also has nothing memorable to offer and seems to simply be mostly recycling Luke's Theme all movie long.
You feel you're missing much ? That's OK, most of the stuff here is tossed off anyway, when the movie isn't simply contradicting itself.

In this way, while some of the issues still are that the movie spends way too much time simply copying the individual fates from the original trilogy, the story itself simply seems to be written in auto-pilot mode, to the point most of the "twists" can be easily guessed in advance, either because it looks like the easy way out so this is it, or because it's like in Episode 5 or 6, thus killing any interest for what is unfolding.

If you have any interest for what little is actually unfolding for you, good news : it will be pointless in the end. Being the longest Star Wars entry and telling so little is probably the biggest achievement of the movie.

I always ranted about Rogue One's unbelievable amount of time spent around Saw Guerrera (roughly the 1st hour of the movie), since the actions in this section are pointless. They are a waste of time since the majority of them will have no impact on the rest of the movie, thus leaving me perplex as to why they spent so much time for so little.
Wel, Ep 8 felt like this hour, but stretched to a whole movie.

Fortunately, you can't argue with the beauty of some shots, especially one of the end moments of the final space battle, which almost looks like a beautiful concept artwork. I also liked a lot the scenes that took place in Snoke's leir, with the red background scenery feeling like a minimalist design. But these few moments certainly aren't enough to fill such a long movie and compensate for so many problems.


As a whole, it certainly felt to me as a very poor movie, and certainly the worst canon live SW movie in the franchise, and it will be very difficult for me to understand how it's supposed to show how mediocre (or even bad) Ep 7 and Rogue One are supposed to be.

3-4/10 (probably 3)

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StevenJ0001
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1149 Post by StevenJ0001 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:42 pm

Wow, it's been a while since the gap between the critical reaction for a film and my experience of it has been quite as wide as this (although Thor: Ragnarok came close).

I was utterly unengaged from the opening sequence until the final moments, and I have to wonder what alternate version of this incredibly drab and clunky movie the critics have been watching. I quite enjoyed Force Awakens, as derivative as it was, and I found Rogue One to be visually appealing (much more so than this film--I couldn't detect much of the visual beauty that some have been mentioning). I found nothing and nobody to care about, the dialogue was sometimes embarrassingly on-the-nose, the exposition was excessive and mundane, there was a shocking absence of creative or memorable action set-pieces, and the plot was just so interminably dull!

YMMV, I guess!

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McCrutchy
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1150 Post by McCrutchy » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:02 pm

I haven't actually read a review of the film, yet. But based on the praise the film is getting, it's very difficult to believe that Disney/Lucasfilm has not greased some palms, perhaps with promises of future incentives like set tours or advance press access to other projects.

Either that, or today's critics simply genuinely aren't fans of the original trilogy, and as such, don't care what happens to those characters. However, even that wouldn't explain how they seemingly all tolerated the humor, and the half-baked subplots.

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