DC Comics on Film

Discuss films of the 21st century including current cinema, current filmmakers, and film festivals.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Never Cursed
Such is life on board the Redoutable
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:22 am

Re: Wonder Woman (Patty Jenkins, 2017)

#401 Post by Never Cursed » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:55 pm

What I think of the movie and its portrayal of Wonder Woman aside, I must say that it's pretty shallow of Jenkins to claim that the only reason Cameron levied criticism against the movie is because he's a man. That's a pretty shallow and sweeping reduction of a legitimate criticism.

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Wonder Woman (Patty Jenkins, 2017)

#402 Post by domino harvey » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:59 pm

I broadly agree with Jenkins, but I think she's being a little coy in her response. This is a film successfully marketed on the back of empowering women, but just because a studio successfully convinced an audience that may not normally turn out for superhero films to fill seats doesn't mean they actually delivered what they promised (and I say this with the caveat that I have not seen the film)

User avatar
flyonthewall2983
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Indiana
Contact:

Re: Wonder Woman (Patty Jenkins, 2017)

#403 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:03 pm

Shrew wrote:Honestly, the shots of Linda Hamilton in prison in T2 feel more male gazey to me than anything in Wonder Woman. The character isn't glamorized, but there's still a sense of a male gaze taking in her body. It's just a body type that bucks typical conventions of beauty (but has since actually become more popular, and I get the sense Cameron was always into it).
Good to point out at this point that it wasn't long after the production of that Cameron and Hamilton actually married, so there was probably more to it than that as well. Maybe.

User avatar
Luke M
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:21 pm

Comic Books on Film

#404 Post by Luke M » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:52 pm

solaris72 wrote:WB has at least 4 movies (5 if he's in "THE BATMAN") featuring the Joker in development, and 3 of them are with Jared Leto...
I’ve heard these are mostly rumors though. Can’t see even one Leto-led Joker getting made.

User avatar
Mr Sausage
Not PETA approved
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:02 pm
Location: Canada

Wonder Woman (Patty Jenkins, 2017)

#405 Post by Mr Sausage » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:34 pm

I'm trying to think of any sexualized 'male gaze' shots in the asylum section of T2, and the only thing I can think of that comes close is Hamilton's introduction, where she's introduced with a big closeup of her biceps as she does pull-ups, ie. something you'd more expect for Schwarzenegger. It feels more like a knowing subversion of an action movie convention (substituting a woman in a moment reserved for males) than what I understand to be male gaze.

Regarding Ripley: Weaver deserves the credit for her performance, but not for how the camera photographs her. Ridley Scott sexualized her considerably in the finale of his film, where she runs about in her underwear, in a way Cameron's film never does. Indeed, Cameron's film gives her gender neutral clothing and hair and, in general, refuses to make a sexual object or even subject of her.

The Abyss avoids the male gaze so steadily that even its heroine's topless scene is not sexualized.

It's not til True Lies that Cameron gives in to unfortunate gender nonsense, and his films since are a bit spottier in that regard. Before that, tho', he was very good at avoiding making his female characters empty sex objects, either via screenplay or camera.

User avatar
Satori
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 10:32 am

Re: Wonder Woman (Patty Jenkins, 2017)

#406 Post by Satori » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:44 pm

I think there are certainly some valid critiques to be made of Wonder Woman's feminist credentials (For example, Jack Halberstam has a good takedown of the film on his blog which also compares it unfavorably to Monster). However, I think that Patty Jenkins makes a really good point when arguing for a female superhero who doesn't need to be burdened with truckloads of baggage. I'm pretty much over the "hard, tough, and troubled" female superhero like Jessica Jones or even Black Widow in Avengers 2. There is a great interrogation of this tendency in the scene in Clouds of Sils Maria in which Binoche and KStew go see and argue about a hilariously overwrought melodramatic superhero film.

I think Wonder Woman works because it is a joyous celebration of uncomplicated ass kicking that women need after the last election. I think a return to an uncomplicated 90s-style "girl power" has its place in contemporary culture, especially in a big budget popcorn movie.

User avatar
R0lf
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 7:25 am

Re: Wonder Woman (Patty Jenkins, 2017)

#407 Post by R0lf » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:20 pm

I read Cameron's statements as an extension of his previous comments about not liking comic book movies. For a woman to succeed and be included in the most generic lowest common denominator of movies isn't progress and it doesn't elevate women. We need to make better movies.

User avatar
flyonthewall2983
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Indiana
Contact:

Re: Wonder Woman (Patty Jenkins, 2017)

#408 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:34 pm

He needs to make better movies.

User avatar
R0lf
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 7:25 am

Re: Wonder Woman (Patty Jenkins, 2017)

#409 Post by R0lf » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:15 pm

Well re. women in film: your mother needs to make better movies.

User avatar
flyonthewall2983
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Indiana
Contact:

Re: Wonder Woman (Patty Jenkins, 2017)

#410 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:32 pm

Considering how long I have to stand with my siblings to get the right picture sometimes, I cringe at the idea of how many takes she'd need to do to feel satisfied.

User avatar
Satori
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 10:32 am

Re: Wonder Woman (Patty Jenkins, 2017)

#411 Post by Satori » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:42 pm

R0lf wrote:I read Cameron's statements as an extension of his previous comments about not liking comic book movies. For a woman to succeed and be included in the most generic lowest common denominator of movies isn't progress and it doesn't elevate women. We need to make better movies.
But isn't Wonder Woman important precisely because it is the first big dumb superhero action movie directed by a woman? Women have already been making "better" movies. Of course there should be more female directors for all kinds of film, but I don't think there is anything particularly novel to most people about a great female-directed art film. How many think pieces are written about how the latest Reichardt or Denis movie is a big deal because it was directed by a woman? There are still important conversations to have about the embarrassingly low percentage of women directors in indie or art film, but it sure is a hell of a lot better than mainstream Hollywood releases.

So if there are going to continue to be big dumb superhero action movies (and of course there will be, just like there were DeMille epics in Classic Hollywood), then it would be nice if a good chunk of them were directed by women. That is progress. The fact that Wonder Woman happens to be much better than most of them is a nice bonus, too.

User avatar
R0lf
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 7:25 am

Re: Wonder Woman (Patty Jenkins, 2017)

#412 Post by R0lf » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:33 pm

Just to revert to THE GAY AGENDA again:

It's progress in the way making LeFou gay in Disney's live action BEAUTY AND THE BEAST is progress when in 1946 we had BEAUTY AND THE BEAST directed by a gay man and starring his boyfriend.

User avatar
Satori
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 10:32 am

Re: Wonder Woman (Patty Jenkins, 2017)

#413 Post by Satori » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:21 pm

I hardly think that is an equivalent case.

But yes, I think it is a good thing that Disney movies now have gay characters in them. That doesn't make the new Beauty and the Beast in any way comparable to Cocteau's film. Nor does Patty Jenkins have to measure up to Akerman or Duras when we are talking about the specific achievements of her film. I'm not arguing that Wonder Woman is "progress" for women filmmakers, I'm arguing that it is progress for mainstream Hollywood to have a massively budgeted superhero film with a female director.

Of course I'd take Cocteau and Duras over contemporary Hollywood blockbusters. But that isn't a decision we have to make. We can celebrate the past accomplishments of queer and female filmmakers while still taking note of and even enjoying recent films as well.


User avatar
flyonthewall2983
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Indiana
Contact:

Re: Comic Books on Film

#415 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:42 am

Isn't he doing a Captain Planet movie?

User avatar
Ribs
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:14 pm

Re: Comic Books on Film

#416 Post by Ribs » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:51 am

I don't believe he was ever supposed to be starring in it, as that would be literally the most insane thing to have ever happened.

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Comic Books on Film

#417 Post by domino harvey » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:52 am

Does anyone who's followed DiCaprio's career really believe he'd show up in any superhero movie, much less one directed by the Hangover guy?

User avatar
flyonthewall2983
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Indiana
Contact:

Re: Comic Books on Film

#418 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:23 pm

Ribs wrote:I don't believe he was ever supposed to be starring in it, as that would be literally the most insane thing to have ever happened.
*coughs*

User avatar
dx23
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:52 pm
Location: Puerto Rico

Re: Comic Books on Film

#419 Post by dx23 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:10 pm

Well, Leo is starting to look like his buddy Jack Nicholson in some photos, so playing the Joker would somewhat parallel their careers too.

User avatar
Never Cursed
Such is life on board the Redoutable
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:22 am

Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#420 Post by Never Cursed » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:01 am


User avatar
cantinflas
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:48 am
Location: sydney

Re: Comic Books on Film

#421 Post by cantinflas » Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:56 pm


User avatar
knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: Wonder Woman (Patty Jenkins, 2017)

#422 Post by knives » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:28 pm

Anyone else find it hilarious, in light of the film's socially aware marketing, that they somehow managed to make Muslims the villains and change the comic's mythology so that it can be more Christian friendly?

Werewolf by Night

Re: Wonder Woman (Patty Jenkins, 2017)

#423 Post by Werewolf by Night » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:25 pm

Which villain is Muslim, the Spanish scientist, the German general, or the Greek god in disguise as an English cabinet minister?

User avatar
knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: Wonder Woman (Patty Jenkins, 2017)

#424 Post by knives » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:29 pm

I must have misheard. I thought they said she was Turkish (though even that would make confusing why her notes are in Arabic).

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Wonder Woman (Patty Jenkins, 2017)

#425 Post by domino harvey » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:30 pm

Werewolf by Night wrote:Which villain is Muslim, the Spanish scientist, the German general, or the Greek god in disguise as an English cabinet minister?
Is this film the Burger King Kids Club?

Post Reply