Awards Season 2017

Discuss films of the 21st century including current cinema, current filmmakers, and film festivals.
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Ribs
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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1001 Post by Ribs » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:30 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:It bothers me when a bad or mediocre movie is rewarded disproportionately because it's got a pro-movie message, whether that be the primary plot thread or something almost shoehorned in, the latter being the case with The Shape of Water. If I didn't like movies I wouldn't be on this forum
As I said last year when it came up against La La Land, I think people are generally very reductive towards in applying these arbitrary definitions. While they may be the movie with the most 'Hollywood! Show biz!' appeal of their respective years, Argo, Birdman, La La Land, and the Shape of Water really aren't about the movies in any particularly substantial way.

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aox
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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1002 Post by aox » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:33 pm

It's been years, but I still seem to recall Ben Affleck winking at me during Argo.

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Big Ben
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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1003 Post by Big Ben » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:34 pm

Everyone here lives at some level for the messiness and ensuing drama of the Oscars. Don't lie folks! We're all here for it!

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mfunk9786
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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1004 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:39 pm

aox wrote:It's been years, but I still seem to recall Ben Affleck winking at me during Argo.
Sounds like you got off easy!

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Werewolf by Night
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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1005 Post by Werewolf by Night » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:49 pm

Ribs wrote:While they may be the movie with the most 'Hollywood! Show biz!' appeal of their respective years, Argo, Birdman, La La Land, and the Shape of Water really aren't about the movies in any particularly substantial way.
Isn't that exactly what the complaint is, though?

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domino harvey
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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1006 Post by domino harvey » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:56 pm

No. He means they ostensibly are not movies about movies in the way Subset Blvd is, not that their depiction of movies is lacking

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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1007 Post by DarkImbecile » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:03 pm

I'd agree that rewarding a movie solely because it highlights the professions of the voting body is wrong-headed, but I think that believing that this happens often might be a false assumption, in that the people making films also passionately, obsessively love movies, and so films (especially auteurist films) are disproportionately seeded with references to other films and the medium generally. Many films that fail to win or are ignored completely during awards season are just as loaded with film references (with varying degrees of relevance to the core of those films) as the Best Picture winners that draw this complaint.

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Shrew
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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1008 Post by Shrew » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:18 pm

Shape of Water also has a weird on-screen cinephilia. The theater is showing a second-rate biblical epic that no one today remembers to nearly empty seats. The "good" movies are on a fuzzy TV set. Despite the loving production design, I think the film's an attack on baby boomer nostalgia for the 60s, though it turn reflects a nostalgia for the films of the 30s (which isn't really willing to interrogate).

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Brian C
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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1009 Post by Brian C » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:23 pm

At the very least, it's hard for me to see how the movie references in The Shape of Water were "shoehorned in". They seemed baked into the cake from both a narrative and thematic standpoint - the film grew out of a Creature from the Black Lagoon remake, didn't it?

I guess that doesn't mean that they had to live above a movie theatre, but in a period-piece monster movie from Del Toro, details like that hardly seem forced or out of place.

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movielocke
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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1010 Post by movielocke » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:39 pm

thats not surprising, Oscar ratings correspond pretty closely to the box office success of the nominees. iirc, The highest rated shows in recent memory were the years with avatar, rotk and titanic.

And the ratings were relatively stable before 2005, because in general the films nominated were all top twenty at the box office. but ratings began to decline at 2005. Nowadays, outlier nominees like avatar are extremely uncommon and it’s rare that any of the nominees are in he years top twenty at the box office.

What changed? Well up until 2001, most screeners were vhs, 2002 saw a lot of piracy of newly popular DVDs, 2003 saw the academy making special DVD players, 2004 saw the total screener ban, and in 2005 there were no restrictions on screeners going forward, and crash flooded the marketplace, this four year period also corresponded with an explosion of internet based punditry, analysis, aggregation and awards trackers like gold derby, gurus of gold, in contention

And lest we forget cellular phones being used to access the internet became more and more common, over this timeframe, and most people in the industry transitioned early on to a blackberry (or equivalent) smartphone with the iPhone dropping in 2007 and dominating going forward

The combination of the awards aggregators, easy internet access, and voters receiving fifty plus screeners means that recipients started using google to figure out the annual buzz and thus filter what they should prioritize out of the pile. This has lead to a relentless march of nominees that every year are less seen (by the movie going public) than the year before. Since year after year the films nominated are less familiar to the population at large, ratings for the Oscars continue to drop.

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Ribs
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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1011 Post by Ribs » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:50 pm

The ratings continue to drop at pace with almost the entirety of television, though, and are still one of the most watched events of the year, with a rating of ~20 (regular TV shows are considered massive hits with a rating of 2!). I think people yelling about declining ratings are incredibly short-sighted, the same as those who think the show's too long, and don't seem to think, "wow - 25 million people watched! Amazing!"

There's basically no reason whatsoever for them to change - this year's Best Picture nominees had an average gross $7 million higher than last year's going into the ceremony. Would you rather them NOT have nominated Call Me By Your Name and Phantom Thread to goose that number? Phantom Thread has, without question, probably made north of double what Focus expected before nominations and is still playing in semi-wide release, probably still going to make another million or so before the BP nomination will definitely help carry it to some stronger home video sales than previously expected.

I dearly wish we'd have a winner that had made just a ton of money, but it just seems like it won't happen, which sucks. I really did not believe in Get Out's narrative, but to me, that was the real winning argument for why to vote for it, and I know that's really deeply cynical.

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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1012 Post by John Shade » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:00 pm


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Fiery Angel
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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1013 Post by Fiery Angel » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:37 pm

Took him long enough.
Last edited by Fiery Angel on Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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zedz
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Re: Awards Season 2017 [Come watch the Oscars with us!]

#1014 Post by zedz » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:52 pm

Clarence wrote:Seriously, no clip for Jeanne Moreau?
Well, we didn't even give her an In Memoriam thread here, so who are we to cast stones?

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furbicide
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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1015 Post by furbicide » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:12 pm

Big Ben wrote:Everyone here lives at some level for the messiness and ensuing drama of the Oscars. Don't lie folks! We're all here for it!
I’m really not. I’d die if I had to watch five minutes of it.

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domino harvey
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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1016 Post by domino harvey » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:23 pm

No, you wouldn't

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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1017 Post by bearcuborg » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:11 pm

furbicide wrote:
Big Ben wrote:Everyone here lives at some level for the messiness and ensuing drama of the Oscars. Don't lie folks! We're all here for it!
I’m really not. I’d die if I had to watch five minutes of it.
When I realized Naked 33 1/3 accurately parodied award shows-I could no longer watch without cringing. It all feels like the Masterpiece Video scene from Ghost World. When I was a kid, I did enjoy Billy Crystal’s monologue.

The only enjoyable part of these awful shows was Joan Rivers doing Fashion Police and Howard Stern goofing on it the day after.

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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1018 Post by FrauBlucher » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:05 am

furbicide wrote:
Big Ben wrote:Everyone here lives at some level for the messiness and ensuing drama of the Oscars. Don't lie folks! We're all here for it!
I’m really not. I’d die if I had to watch five minutes of it.
I take umbrage with this. It would take you much more than five minutes to die. Maybe after the third hour when you realize there's another hour left.

I haven't watched the Oscars in years. I have no interest and would rather watch a film instead. Usually enjoy opening a brand spanking new Criterion blu which I did sunday night. I watched La Chienne.

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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1019 Post by TMDaines » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:54 am

It's almost like people who like making movies like movies and like making movies where people also like movies.

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Luke M
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Re: Awards Season 2017

#1020 Post by Luke M » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:57 pm

So what you’re saying is Ready Player One is going to sweep next year?

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