Jane Got a Gun (Gavin O'Connor, 2016)

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Mr Sausage
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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#51 Post by Mr Sausage » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:25 pm

Brian C wrote:I'm not sure I have anything more to add.
When Elizbeth Wurtzel titled one of her books "Bitch: in Praise of Difficult Women," was she being being arbitrary, or choosing her words carefully? If you aren't aware that the term has been used in the way it has, what can I do? It ought to be common knowledge--its use is certainly specific and ubiquitous enough. Type "difficult women" into google and you'll see very quickly.

So, no, the burden of proof is on you: show that the term isn't inappropriate.

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med
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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#52 Post by med » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:32 pm

Though nobody, as far as I can recall, described his behaviour as hysterical or his actions as caused by “drama”.
Hm, maybe nobody ever called it "drama," I'm not sure, but I want to make an argument and I don't have time back up any claims.

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krnash
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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#53 Post by krnash » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:42 pm

I should have made my argument clearer. I'm not trying to say that Ramsay is difficult as a person. I am saying that, in this particular situation, she is acting difficult. She is, period. And how is what you're doing different? You're travelling further and further away from the thread at hand- Lynne Ramsay's specific movie Jane Got a Gun- in favor of arguing the use of a word, which, in my opinion, is a perfectly suitable word for this specific discussion.

For the record, I like Lynne Ramsay's movies and I think she's incredibly talented, and I agree that blankly labeling her as a person with words like "difficult" is ignorant and stupid based on one scenario. But this thread isn't called "Lynne Ramsay as a person", it's called "Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)".

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NABOB OF NOWHERE
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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#54 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:44 pm

Mr Sausage wrote: So, no, the burden of proof is on you: show that the term isn't inappropriate.
Well it is my experience that the usage of the word 'difficult' in the film industry is common parlance with a range of shadings suggesting anything from adversarial to downright incompetent and therefore a not very helpful catch-all phrase.
In a workplace that pits production staff against creative staff it's not really surprising is it ?

For what it's worth I have worked with crew and production staff who have used it to describe amongst others Kubrik, Scorsese, Ridley Scott, Polanski, Skolimowski, Claire Denis, LeConte, Chabrol, Arnold, Ramsay, Kevin Spacey, Russel Crowe.
No prizes for guessing who comes top of the list for the most negative connotations but one is Australian and the other deceased.
How 'difficult' was used in each instance?
The Australian told the camera operator not to look at him.
The deceased director fired someone in the art department for exceeding their rubber band quotient in the stationery budget.
I should add however that the most positive colouring of the term in being dogged and demanding commitment was for the ladies of the group.

Anyone who wants to extrapolate this nonsense into further gender based or semantic theory is very welcome.

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Mr Sausage
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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#55 Post by Mr Sausage » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:25 pm

Already (sor of) addressed that here, Nabob. Especially in the second sentence. Still, interesting post. Worth considering.
krnash wrote:I should have made my argument clearer. I'm not trying to say that Ramsay is difficult as a person. I am saying that, in this particular situation, she is acting difficult. She is, period. And how is what you're doing different? You're travelling further and further away from the thread at hand- Lynne Ramsay's specific movie Jane Got a Gun- in favor of arguing the use of a word, which, in my opinion, is a perfectly suitable word for this specific discussion.
There is no movie at the moment, Lynne Ramsay isn't making it, and insinuating that I'm being difficult by trying to add something to a discussion that arose in this thread, and by not appreciating dismissive posts that add nothing to any of the discussions, is ironic. If your point is that there are no problematic connotations to calling a woman "difficult" because this or that woman deserves it, go ahead. There's nothing I want to say to that. That's the last I'm going to say about this.

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krnash
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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#56 Post by krnash » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:36 pm

Mr Sausage wrote: and insinuating that I'm being difficult by trying to add something to a discussion that arose in this thread, and by not appreciating dismissive posts that add nothing to any of the discussions, is ironic.
[-X Woah there, eeeasy. I never insinuated that you were being difficult. I wouldn't want another semantic misunderstanding of that word.

In all seriousness, there was never any offense meant, I was just putting my two cents in because I don't think gender has anything to do whatsoever with this situation. We'll agree to disagree.

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Mr Sausage
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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#57 Post by Mr Sausage » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:52 pm

krnash wrote:
Mr Sausage wrote: and insinuating that I'm being difficult by trying to add something to a discussion that arose in this thread, and by not appreciating dismissive posts that add nothing to any of the discussions, is ironic.
[-X Woah there, eeeasy. I never insinuated that you were being difficult. I wouldn't want another semantic misunderstanding of that word.

In all seriousness, there was never any offense meant, I was just putting my two cents in because I don't think gender has anything to do whatsoever with this situation. We'll agree to disagree.
Alright, fair enough. We can shake e-hands and move on.

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krnash
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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#58 Post by krnash » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:24 pm

Mr Sausage wrote:
krnash wrote:
Mr Sausage wrote: and insinuating that I'm being difficult by trying to add something to a discussion that arose in this thread, and by not appreciating dismissive posts that add nothing to any of the discussions, is ironic.
[-X Woah there, eeeasy. I never insinuated that you were being difficult. I wouldn't want another semantic misunderstanding of that word.

In all seriousness, there was never any offense meant, I was just putting my two cents in because I don't think gender has anything to do whatsoever with this situation. We'll agree to disagree.
Alright, fair enough. We can shake e-hands and move on.
Done and done good sir.

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Donald Brown
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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#59 Post by Donald Brown » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:44 pm

krnash wrote:I am saying that, in this particular situation, she is acting difficult. She is, period.
How do you know this? I find it hard to believe this is a decision she made lightly, that there's no good reason for her walking away. It's pointless to assign blame when nothing is known of her motive yet. It's just a likely, perhaps more so, that it's the producers who were being difficult.

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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#60 Post by Mathew2468 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:08 pm

Nervous breakdown like Rivette.........?

I never knew that 'difficult' had sexist connotations. First thing that came to mind was Veruca Salt to her dad: "You're always making things difficult!" 'Hysterical' however...

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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#61 Post by knives » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:50 pm

What's this about Rivette having a nervous breakdown? I thought his issue was alzheimers or is this an earlier incident?

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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#62 Post by bdlover » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:00 am

Ramsay will have signed a contract which prohibits her from criticizing the film or the producer, making her legally unable to respond. What we're left with is an entirely one-sided story from a producer who was able to magic up a seasoned replacement within less than 24 hours. Sad this is getting traction from journalists who should know better.

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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#63 Post by JonasEB » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:37 am

knives wrote:What's this about Rivette having a nervous breakdown? I thought his issue was alzheimers or is this an earlier incident?
This happened when he attempted to make the third film in the Duelle/Noroit series back in the seventies.

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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#64 Post by RossyG » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:50 am

Jazzkammer wrote:Wrong. Anyone that has done Women's Studies 101...
...should do a real university course and stop wasting their time on relativist bollocks.

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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#65 Post by Jeff » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:56 pm

The Hollywood Reporter attempts to paint a somewhat more complete picture of what went down. It sounds like that while Ramsay handled things rather poorly, she used an exit clause in her contract. As the comical attempts at spin doctoring in the last few days have demonstrated, the producer appears to be far from a bastion of ethics and professionalism himself. The movie this could have been with Portman and Fassbender directed by Ramsay will have to live in my imagination.

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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#66 Post by Andrew_VB » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:38 pm

in what way does it sound like ramsay handled things poorly? sounds like things were not ready to go in the way they were supposed to be so she walked. i get that, according to the article, she wanted to readjust aspects of her work agreement after delays pushed back shooting, but this sort of situation is the whole reason these exit clauses are built into contracts in the first place. makes much more sense to leave than put in work on a project you feel is doomed from the first day of shooting, that probably would have wound up much worse.

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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#67 Post by Jeff » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:04 am

Andrew_VB wrote:in what way does it sound like ramsay handled things poorly?
Deciding on Saturday that she no longer wanted to do the film, but not calling to tell Portman or any of the other cast and crew, and just not showing up to work on Monday when everybody else did. Maybe that was the producer's job if he knew on Saturday, but if I were on that crew, I'd be pissed at somebody. I'm on Team Ramsay, but I'm not just going to assume she's completely blameless in this situation.

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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#68 Post by ellipsis7 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:20 am

Something of Ramsay's side of the story... Jason Solomons in The Observer...
We need to talk about Lynne

Following her dramatic withdrawal last week from her first Hollywood movie on the first day of shooting, director Lynne Ramsay will take some time to recover her reputation. Ramsay failed to turn up for the beginning of Jane Got a Gun, the feminist western she'd been preparing for months in Los Angeles. While this is unprecedented behaviour for a director, I understand that Ramsay believes she had no choice but to withdraw from the film after a series of compromises over cast and locations reached critical mass, including a falling out with the film's star and co-producer, Natalie Portman. I understand the problem also stemmed from Ramsay having been promised final cut on the movie, but it having become clear that this was not going to happen.

Ramsay is, friends tell me, shaken but OK and working out how to redress the series of slurs against her that have proliferated on websites such as Deadline.com, the favoured organ of the film's producer, Scott Steindorff. She will return to the UK soon but has been receiving support from friends such as Tilda Swinton and cinematographer Seamus McGarvey. "Hollywood's a lonely place," a source close to Ramsay told me. "She'd been in control all the way, but the last week of pre-production became a series of calamities for a film-maker as precise and visionary as Lynne. It's a shame to think Hollywood can't accommodate a talent like hers, but maybe she was naive to think it wouldn't be a rough ride."

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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#69 Post by Reverend Drewcifer » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:29 pm

Things're tough all over for an artist. Taking Hollywood money, whether from a studio, mini-major, or even an independent producer opens the door for all kinds of compromises. It's tempting to trash Ramsay for lacking the intestinal fortitude to go through the process, but as her side of the story begins to come into focus, I can only sympathize with someone who is under that kind of pressure to conform. A big "however," however, is that she is an idiosyncratic filmmaker (read: artist) who has projects in the pipeline that demand escalated budgets (Moby Dick: Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaace!). She could become the Terry Gilliam of her generation, which is not something I would wish upon her.

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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#70 Post by knives » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:31 pm

Given the number of failed projects she's already worked on I think it is safe to say she is well over the Gilliam line already.
Last edited by knives on Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#71 Post by Matt » Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:35 pm

MOBIUS was to be produced by the same producer (Scott Steindorff) behind JANE, so we can safely assume it's not happening anymore (or at least not until she secures funding somewhere else, which is not going to be easy).

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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#72 Post by bdlover » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:12 pm

So let's see... According to two of the Hollywood Reporter's sources, the producer tried to weasel and bully Ramsay out of her contractual right to final cut , then slurred her reputation when she exercised her contractual right to exit the project - oh, and failed to inform the cast and crew despite 48 hours notice. Yep, sounds like Ramsay was being 'difficult' alright!

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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#73 Post by Duncan Hopper » Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:57 am

For what it's worth, here's a story from insider gossip newsletter 'Popbitch'.
Lynne Ramsay's no-show as director of Jane Got A Gun made headlines, with producer Scott Seindorff publicly ripping into her.

So why did Ramsay walk? Her main demand had been getting final cut. This was agreed, in return for delivering the film on time and on budget. Sounds simple? By the time filming started the set was awash with rumours of budget changes, and re-writes. All things which would likely make sticking to timing and budget impossible. Ramsay started to think there was no chance of the final cut she'd been promised.

But the final nail in the coffin? Having hired the director of Ratcatcher, Morvern Callar and We Need To Talk About Kevin, a producer proudly announced they were setting out to make "the new Dances With Wolves".

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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#74 Post by MichaelB » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:17 am

I thought Avatar was the new Dances with Wolves?

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Re: Jane Got a Gun (Not Lynne Ramsay, 2014)

#75 Post by colinr0380 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:24 am

That's treating Avatar too kindly. Avatar was more like the new FernGully: The Last Rainforest

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