La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (Marco de Gastyne, 1929)

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Saturnome
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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#26 Post by Saturnome » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:32 am

HerrSchreck wrote:Capitaine Fracasse - French Calvacanti
I saw that one a few days ago and I'll add my praise to it - great melo-swashbuckler - though I wouldn't put it on the same level as Gance, Epstein and friends :D

So ...When can I expect to see this film?

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NABOB OF NOWHERE
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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#27 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:01 am

Knappen wrote:I was in Rouen a month ago and hang around the place where she was actually burned with IMDb's dbdumonteil.
How time flies! I didn't realise the Imdb was up and running in the fourteenth century.

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Sloper
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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#28 Post by Sloper » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:19 am

Fifteenth. (By which time, of course, a primitive version of the imdb was up and running.)

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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#29 Post by jdcopp » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:47 am

The films are compared in "Cinema Europe: The Other Hollywood." I am not to sure in which episode.

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Knappen
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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#30 Post by Knappen » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:20 am

It's towards the ending of The Music of Light, the fourth episode which is about French silents.

It basically just says that this movie, despite its impressive battle scene and historical recreation, has been completely eclipsed by Dreyer's film. I'm not sure which one drew the biggest crowds in 1929, though.

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HerrSchreck
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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#31 Post by HerrSchreck » Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:18 pm

I think it's only through the decades-- the past twenty years, really, since the original cut of the film has been widely seen by the entire planet after its miraculous rediscovery (I mean, prior to the CC, and the photochem resto that preceded it there was NO home video edition of the film in its proper form, and the second edit/outtakes version of the film put together by Dreyer was subject to all kinds of tampering including that narrated sonorized version)-- that Dreyer's film has been in a position to eclipse anything, really. His version was not something the Le Societe de films was really all that crazy about when it was made... and Dreyer certainly was frustrated and heartbroken that his masterpiece was not given a wider release.

I'd put my money on the de Gastyne as the bigger oneymaker/crowd pleaser. But that doesn't mean it's some DeMille-like historical melodrama of the blatantly simplistic and manipulative kind... on the contrary, its quite sophisticated and posessed of the same cinematic purity and fluid aesthetic that other French films of the same grand historical pedigree have (like for ex. the films of Raymond Bernard).

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zedz
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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#32 Post by zedz » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:59 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:I think it's only through the decades-- the past twenty years, really, since the original cut of the film has been widely seen by the entire planet after its miraculous rediscovery (I mean, prior to the CC, and the photochem resto that preceded it there was NO home video edition of the film in its proper form, and the second edit/outtakes version of the film put together by Dreyer was subject to all kinds of tampering including that narrated sonorized version)-- that Dreyer's film has been in a position to eclipse anything, really. His version was not something the Le Societe de films was really all that crazy about when it was made... and Dreyer certainly was frustrated and heartbroken that his masterpiece was not given a wider release.
You're right about the contemporary reception, but I'm pretty sure the film had been established as a canonical classic by the 1950s / 60s, and almost entirely on the basis of the 'inferior' cut (which is why a DVD rerelease including this version in its entirety would be especially valuable). It was a film society / cinematheque staple (see Vivre sa vie) and Dreyer's new films (e.g. Gertrud) were weighed up against his 'masterpiece'.

Dreyer's output was so sporadic and his commercial fortunes so spotty, it would actually be really interesting to learn more about how his international reputation became established and developed. Did he actually have a 'breakthrough' (Day of Wrath?), or did his renown grow incrementally?

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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#33 Post by colinr0380 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:56 pm

zedz wrote:It was a film society / cinematheque staple (see Vivre sa vie) and Dreyer's new films (e.g. Gertrud) were weighed up against his 'masterpiece'.

Dreyer's output was so sporadic and his commercial fortunes so spotty, it would actually be really interesting to learn more about how his international reputation became established and developed. Did he actually have a 'breakthrough' (Day of Wrath?), or did his renown grow incrementally?
That reminded me of Richard Linklater's It's Impossible To Learn To Plow By Reading Books, which has a sequence near the end of the main character visiting a local theatre and watching Gertrud. Linklater on the commentary track talks about the choice of the lengthy sequence from the Dreyer being significant to him because of it chiming with his own interests in consciousness being a jumble of life, dreams and movies, as well as of course being his own homage to Vivre sa vie: "Anna Karina starts crying in that film. No tears in this movie!"

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HerrSchreck
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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#34 Post by HerrSchreck » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:20 pm

zedz wrote:
HerrSchreck wrote:I think it's only through the decades-- the past twenty years, really, since the original cut of the film has been widely seen by the entire planet after its miraculous rediscovery (I mean, prior to the CC, and the photochem resto that preceded it there was NO home video edition of the film in its proper form, and the second edit/outtakes version of the film put together by Dreyer was subject to all kinds of tampering including that narrated sonorized version)-- that Dreyer's film has been in a position to eclipse anything, really. His version was not something the Le Societe de films was really all that crazy about when it was made... and Dreyer certainly was frustrated and heartbroken that his masterpiece was not given a wider release.
You're right about the contemporary reception, but I'm pretty sure the film had been established as a canonical classic by the 1950s / 60s, and almost entirely on the basis of the 'inferior' cut (which is why a DVD rerelease including this version in its entirety would be especially valuable). It was a film society / cinematheque staple (see Vivre sa vie) and Dreyer's new films (e.g. Gertrud) were weighed up against his 'masterpiece'.

Dreyer's output was so sporadic and his commercial fortunes so spotty, it would actually be really interesting to learn more about how his international reputation became established and developed. Did he actually have a 'breakthrough' (Day of Wrath?), or did his renown grow incrementally?
Sure, sure, the Dreyer film's greatness was clearly legendary, at least among those who could see it after its initial run-- my point was primarily focused on volume, selling tickets, on which film reached more people (and primarily I'm speaking about the initial release cycle).. ie which film was more popular with the general public/mass market. Part of the reason Dreyer's film was doomed after the neg burned in Berlin was the meagre number of positives floating around-- this due to it's very limited release. Your typical silent with a nice international release leaves a goodly number of nitrate positives flung around the globe in the major markets. This film had diddly-- so when the fire hit, heartbreak ensued.

My secondary point was more anecdotal, owing to the sad and heavily bastardized disposition of Dreyer's masterpiece until the loonybin print was miraculously discovered in Norway. Of course, being on a midcentury Top Ten list doesn't mean that the general public knows anything about the film or has any desire to see it. As for the Gastyne film, it sounds like it eventually slid out of view even in France for awhile, until Genevois got La Cinemateque Francaise's Renee Lichtig moving on the restoration to get the film back in the public eye. As for which film was more dear to the French public around midcentury, I'm completely oblivious and unable to speak to it.

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Zazou dans le Metro
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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#35 Post by Zazou dans le Metro » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:06 am

HerrSchreck wrote:I'd put my money on the de Gastyne as the bigger oneymaker/crowd pleaser. But that doesn't mean it's some DeMille-like historical melodrama of the blatantly simplistic and manipulative kind... on the contrary, its quite sophisticated and posessed of the same cinematic purity and fluid aesthetic that other French films of the same grand historical pedigree have (like for ex. the films of Raymond Bernard).
A cursory flip through the Dreyer biographies that I have to hand didn't throw up any box office figures for Jeanne. I did note though that it was championed equally by Cocteau and the Archbishop of Paris after the premiere of the original version despite it's rather lukewarm initial critical reception by the trade journals.

Also it seems that the post 1952 sonorised version remained the official Gaumont distribution copy ( I presume until the found original/restoration). Is it possible to tell from Vivre sa Vie what is on screen I wonder?

Anyway pertinent to Schrek's point above I found this little snippet in the 'Dictionnaire du cinema francais des annees vingt'- under Gastyne. (I paraphrase)- Despite a very positive critical reception it received a "mediocre" box office because of being released at the same time as Dreyer's version which killed it stone dead (ecrasé). So, even though it was made with great care and craft with a splendid cast it disappeared into undeserved oblivion until comparatively recently.

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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#36 Post by HerrSchreck » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:11 am

Interesting-- I've always thought of Dreyer's film as a failure (certainly it is after this film that Dreyer's complete dislocation from any and every studio system begins and his films begin coming, instead of once if not several per year, once every ten years (after the self-produced Vampyr, of course). So if Dreyer's film killed the Gastyne 'stone dead', the Gastyne hardly respired at all!

TheAuteurs quotes allmovie:
It was in France that he made the masterpiece for which he is best remembered, The Passion of Joan of Arc (1928), a powerful, imperfect chronicle of the final day in the saint’s life. It was here that Dreyer took one of Griffith’s techniques, the close-up, and created effects designed to capture every nuance of the characters’ conscious and subconscious state. This film took the director over 18 months to finish. With this film, Dreyer attempted to keep the story historically accurate in every way: the script was based on actual trial records, the cast wore period clothing sans make-up and jewelry, the film was shot in perfect sequence, and elaborate, expensive sets were constructed, including an enormous castle with sliding walls to facilitate photography. Unfortunately, though critics adored the film (and still do, as it remains one of the most carefully examined and acclaimed films in the history of cinema), it was a box office flop.
From Bright Lights Film Journal:
The Archbishop of Paris’s demand for changes were only the beginning of a series of mutilations. In 1933, the film, which failed at the box office in spite of many glowing reviews, resurfaced in a truncated version (82 minutes cut to 61) featuring the prattlings of a radio announcer, of all things. In 1951, yet another version appeared with different cuts, new subtitles, and interpolated shots of stained glass and other indignities.
Popmatters quotes Tyberg as claiming the opposite of Zazou's Dictionnaire (I'd have to pull out the dvd and spin it to get the exact quote):
The canonization of Jeanne D’Arc (Joan of Arc) fell into the upheaval of post-World War I France. Although she was always a popular figure of French history, when the Catholic Church recognized Jeanne as a saint in ‘20, assorted media about her life began to appear in the public realm. La Passion de Jeanne D’Arc premiered in Copenhagen in April 1928, but was by no means the only “Jeanne” movie of the time period. A more elaborate movie called La Merveilleuse Vie de Jeanne D’Arc (The Wonderful Life of Joan of Arc) , directed by Marco de Gastyne, hit the box office at the same time, and essentially drove Dreyer’s La Passion de Jeanne D’Arc to the more obscure and “art-house” movie theatres worldwide ("The Criterion Collection: La Passion de Jeanne D’Arc”, DVD commentary by Casper Tybjerg).
It's so difficult to get reliable box office figures from this era-- especially accurate global figures-- that this stuff is usually always just beyond the ability to pin down for public knowledge.

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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#37 Post by Zazou dans le Metro » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:16 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:Interesting-- I've always thought of Dreyer's film as a failure (certainly it is after this film that Dreyer's complete dislocation from any and every studio system begins and his films begin coming, instead of once if not several per year, once every ten years (after the self-produced Vampyr, of course). So if Dreyer's film killed the Gastyne 'stone dead', the Gastyne hardly respired at all! .............
......It's so difficult to get reliable box office figures from this era-- especially accurate global figures-- that this stuff is usually always just beyond the ability to pin down for public knowledge.
Well you sent me scurrying back to the bookshelves but frustratingly all I could find was a rather insubstantial list in Abel's 'French Film The First Wave' which has Jeanne along with a few others (including the criminally MIA Miracle des Loups) as the most commercially successful historical films of the twenties. (La merveilleuse Vie is not included).

Re the conflicting tales of the church's intervention post the Paris premiere and the mutilation theory by the Archbishop, the primary source for this seems to be Leon Moussinac.

Writing about the delay imposed by the church before its public run in October 1928 he talks of 'cuts and changes so serious that the public could only see an annoying Catholic film.... in which the Rouen tribunal appeared sympathetic and the trial reduced to a theological discussion.....'

However in Drouzy's biography he cites Jean Mitry who saw both versions and could only confess to remembering a few changes mainly related to the bloodletting and distress of the bound Jeanne in the torture sequences. (Incidentally the original precensored version was retained for export outside of France).

Admittedly that Dictionnaire perspective does seem plucked out of the blue but, as you say, pinning down this bit of history is a fraught affair - like licking your finger and sticking up your arse to see which way the wind's blowing.

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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#38 Post by bollibasher » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:28 pm

In 'widescreen':

http://fr.gloria.tv/?media=54657" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#39 Post by Saturnome » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:45 pm

Yeouch! I was hoping to see this film. Is there any way to stretch a PC screen? Or I could download the streaming file and adjust it...

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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#40 Post by bollibasher » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:55 pm

I expect if you download the flv file it may be in 4:3 anyway, just the website's formatted to show it 16:9, at least that's what I'm hoping as it sloooowly trickles down the interwaves for me. It has a direct download link on the page where it says 'Telecharger'

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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#41 Post by Knappen » Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:55 pm

Already got a copy, but thanks for a unique opportunity to follow a French catholic piracy discussion!
Last edited by Knappen on Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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HerrSchreck
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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#42 Post by HerrSchreck » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:53 am

Well, at least it's something-- a barebones low rez way to see this extremely rare masterpiece for the vast majority of folks who don't have access to the resto that came out on VHS over 10 years ago. A MERVEILLEUSE film!

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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#43 Post by Jean-Luc Garbo » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:06 am

I just tried to watch it and it says "video not found".

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Sloper
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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#44 Post by Sloper » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:06 pm

Even with such heavily compromised picture quality, what a fantastic film. I can only echo all of Schreck’s positive sentiments on page 1: the imagery is so rich, the mood of every scene so perfectly judged, the pace so stately and luxurious, the acting so completely free of affectation or histrionics... I didn't know what to expect from this, but it's a revelation all round.

It feels very nicely structured as well, with the quiet opening and the inexorable journey to the pyre bookending the spectacular central sequence where Joan raises the siege of Orléans. The budget was evidently big, but this is the kind of spectacle that results not from massive expense but from really great film-making, and bears comparison with the battle scenes of Eisenstein, Bernard, Welles and Kurosawa. The violence is graphic and harrowing, but there is also a stirring sense of triumphalism mixed in, all culminating in the wonderful shot where, with the victory all but won, Joan collapses and surveys the carnage all around her. "Oh Lord, what have we done?" she says, her face conveying both a sense of wonder at what she has accomplished with God’s help, and the horror of a country girl not used to the hell of the battlefield.

Genevois is, in her own way, every bit as good as Falconetti – maybe a little more natural, which given her tender age may not be surprising. Her incredibly expressive face often seems to be smiling, even at her most anguished moments. This Joan is much more worldly and simple than Falconetti’s, not so much lost in religious ecstasy as helplessly driven towards her fate by an unstoppable force, and one that she never fully understands. I hope it isn’t spoiling too much to say that, unlike in Dreyer’s film, the Joan here does not choose to withdraw her recantation, rather she is tricked into breaking the vows she made when she abjured. “I don’t want to die,” she protests. Then they start cutting off her hair.

Even more so than the Dreyer version, the ending is genuinely difficult to watch, and the final shots are impressively bleak. In fact, I almost wonder whether there’s something missing at the end; it’s hard to believe (though I’d love to) that de Gastyne actually sent his audience home on such a chilling note. Though it is a little surprising that this was outdone by The Passion of Joan of Arc at the box office, Schreck’s absolutely right that de Gastyne is no De Mille. This is a solemn medieval pageant for grown-ups, with no cheap and superficial thrills chucked in to make the audience happy. One day it’ll be a huge feather in some DVD company’s cap. Lovely score, too.

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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#45 Post by Richard--W » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:50 pm

Resuscitating this thread after watching the comparison in the documentary Cinema Europe.

I don't find La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc on DVD anywhere. Not even on amazonFrance. So I assume it hasn't been released.

If anyone has a copy of this film, please contact me by PM or email.

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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#46 Post by Richard--W » Tue May 03, 2011 3:48 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:Just continues to prove Eric Dolphy's humble maxim-- the more you learn, the more there is to learn.
Or, as research historians are apt to say, the more you learn, the less you know.

Have you seen any promotional materials for this film, HerrSchreck? the posters or ad mats? I'm curious to see how it marketed.

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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#47 Post by Richard--W » Thu May 05, 2011 3:20 pm

HerrSchreck, check your Messages.

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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#48 Post by Richard--W » Wed May 11, 2011 4:54 pm

Is the composer known?
Was a recording ever made and / or released?
Naive questions, I'm sure.

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HerrSchreck
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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#49 Post by HerrSchreck » Thu May 12, 2011 7:52 pm

Rich, I replied.

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Re: La merveilleuse vie de Jeanne d'Arc (de Gastyne, 1929)

#50 Post by vjjulie » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:26 pm

Hello HerrSchreck

Could you please post your reply to Richard-W's question concerning who the composer is ?
I have been spending hours trying to find that info on the web with no luck and I really need it as soon as possible.

I love this score, it's absolutely beautiful and is perfect for this film...which by the way is indeed great as you said :-)

Thank you very much
Julie

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