Carney-vàle!

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david hare
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#126 Post by david hare » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:43 pm

gcgiles1dollarbin wrote:... I have equal doubts that due process will serve Rappaport without driving him deeper and deeper into debt. It shouldn't satisfy our consciences that this matter will wind up in the judicial system.
This is the enitre crux of the matter. The whole thing went into escalation the moment Rappaport lawyered up. Which he did in response to incrementally increasing and changing demands by Carney for "recompense". This was always going to end up a game of brinkmanship with Carney apparently upping the financial ante at each step, like the aggrieved bridesmaid to which MR probably foolishly responded at each step with an attorney. Then Carney makes another 11th hour offer which - if he stuck to the figure - MR would have been very wise to accept, without lawyers but with witnesses of course. Certainly considering the reality that there is no legal document to cover the "loan", nor apparently any compensation for "caretaking", any court process would be a straight out adversarial he said he said, with ever more expensive lawyers the only winners.

Unlike Jonah and most other people I have absolutely no faith in "Due process" or any necessary contingency between the "law" and "justice". Justice can't really be bought, or in all likelihood achieved in a court of law, especially by someone as naive and unworldly as MR. When you swim with sharks you carry blowtorch. To borrow a Chan-ism.

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whaleallright
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#127 Post by whaleallright » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:59 pm

...
Last edited by whaleallright on Mon May 27, 2013 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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david hare
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#128 Post by david hare » Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:06 am

No Jonah. What I said was I believe BU should suspend him on pay or stand him down while there is the smell of a scandal or criminal proceedings hanging over his head. Whether you like it or not Academia lends an aura and a synergy of respectability to people whose actual behavior may be far from respectable. So I believe it tends to load the judicial dice in Carney's favor, rightly or wrongly .That's possibly Jost's point too. Unfortunately it only arises because MR commenced proceedings to recover his property in the absence of a written contract or agreement with an attorney and Carney has responded unsurprisingly with his own attorney. So the whole thing falls into an adversarial legal chasm. It probably wouldn't have if MR had obtained better advice and simply paid out when the price got low enough.

That's the long and short of it and this is precisely what has happened oft times previously with this gentleman. He has history, Jonah.

Jon Jost
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#129 Post by Jon Jost » Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:24 pm

Just a little new news:

There is some more news on this matter which I am not at liberty to reveal, but I can say, out of the horse's mouth, is an unsavory "deal" being offered. I await word of whatever is to transpire next.

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david hare
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#130 Post by david hare » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:13 pm

Please keep us posted!!

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Michael Kerpan
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#131 Post by Michael Kerpan » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:34 am

Rather lengthy article on this controversy in today's Boston Globe: http://bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/style/ ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(not sure how long link will stay alive).

Jon Jost
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#132 Post by Jon Jost » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:46 pm

Yes, the Boston Globe has published an article on the Rappaport/Carney matter.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/st ... ments.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The above includes responses, including mine which notes some omissions in the article - like noting that Carney has committed perjury, and little things like that. I hope to find time soon to post another in the Chained Relations series covering this sad and absurd episode. As with the long item of defense which Carney posted some weeks ago, it seems the more he says, the deeper he digs the hole he insists on occupying. In the Globe article he now asserts he spent $40K to build a special place in his house to hold Rappaport's materials, a picture of which demonstrates it would readily fit under a modestly sized table. For details on that see http://cinemaelectronica.wordpress.com/ ... s-redux-9/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jon Jost
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#133 Post by Jon Jost » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:30 pm

IndieWire item on Carney/Rappaport case

http://www.indiewire.com/article/how-fi ... eaderPanel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Carney now has new numbers and explanations for himself.

It is claimed he has led his students to reading Shakespeare; too bad Carney never learned anything from doing so: then he might let them know that "Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive" is actually from Sir Walter Scott. Not that it would evidently make any difference to Carney.

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Oedipax
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#134 Post by Oedipax » Sun May 19, 2013 6:15 pm

More Carnage.

http://cinemaelectronica.wordpress.com/ ... ations-10/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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perkizitore
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#135 Post by perkizitore » Sun May 19, 2013 6:52 pm

Someone must really put pressure to BU to fire Carney, that will teach him.

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david hare
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#136 Post by david hare » Sun May 19, 2013 8:11 pm

I've been saying precisely this for pages at a time over the last six months!!

It's the only thing that will precipitate a circuit breaker.

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colinr0380
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#137 Post by colinr0380 » Mon May 20, 2013 12:08 pm

Futurama wrote:Mayor Poopenmayer: Professor Wernstrom, can you save my city?
Professor Ogden Wernstrom: Of course, but it'll cost you. First, I'll need tenure.
Mayor Poopenmayer: Done.
Professor Ogden Wernstrom: And a big research grant.
Mayor Poopenmayer: You got it.
Professor Ogden Wernstrom: Also, access to a lab, and five graduate students, at least three of them Chinese.
Mayor Poopenmayer: All right, done. What's your plan?
Professor Ogden Wernstrom: What plan? I'm set for life. Au revoir, suckers!
Leela: That rat! Do something!
Mayor Poopenmayer: I wish I could, but he's got tenure.

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Gregory
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#138 Post by Gregory » Mon May 20, 2013 1:38 pm

Sorry if I've overlooked some relevant fact here, but how could this be considered BU's affair, and why is tenure even an issue in this discussion? I realize that a major scandal involving a professor's off-campus relationships can lead to disciplinary action if the situation is severe enough to damage the institution's reputation, but the administration is hardly going to butt in any old time there's a legal dispute involving one of their faculty. And if they did, I could see that setting quite an unjust precedent. It looks like those who didn't believe in the institution of tenure to begin with are simply using this to grind that ax.

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gcgiles1dollarbin
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#139 Post by gcgiles1dollarbin » Mon May 20, 2013 3:23 pm

I guess it all depends on the extent to which one believes that this affair implicates his work as a BU researcher, historian, and teacher. Presumably he did work on Rappaport under the auspices of the institution supporting him, and part of this research must depend to some extent on the work lent him by Rappaport (or "gifted," if we're to believe Carney). I don't see this business as being "off-campus," either way, or even terribly distinct from any other research he executes under the aegis of Boston University. It's certainly not as "off-campus" as a sex scandal involving no one from the university, but I can imagine some arguing nonetheless that David Epstein, for example, deserves to lose his job, even though his sexual crime is unrelated to his work at Columbia. This is in dramatic contrast to Carney's alleged crimes (perjury, etc.), but it still brings up the same question of how accountable a professor should be to the university for crimes committed "off-campus." One would have to begin with a basic question: Do alleged perjury and alleged unlawful possession of research materials reflect his professional abilities and ethical status at the university? I would think so, but you and others might disagree. As for being principally opposed to tenure, I'm not except insofar that it permits this kind of professional immunity that students, adjuncts, etc., never enjoy.

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hearthesilence
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#140 Post by hearthesilence » Mon May 20, 2013 8:12 pm

I still get a chuckle from this thread's title...

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zedz
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#141 Post by zedz » Tue May 21, 2013 5:13 pm

I had always assumed that Carney's position at a reputable institution was absolutely, directly relevant to Rappaport's decision that it would be safe to leave his materials with him, so I don't see how BU cannot be implicated in this depressing clusterfuck. Plus, I'm betting that the university won't be keen to acquire a reputation as "the film department that fucks filmmakers over." *

* or, if you want to be pedantic, "the film department that sits back and watches while its staff fuck filmmakers over." That's a hair nobody with any sense is going to split.

Calvin
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#142 Post by Calvin » Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:41 pm


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whaleallright
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#143 Post by whaleallright » Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:13 pm

that's great news; I wonder why Rappaport didn't let on that the original negatives were in Paris all along--or did he?
Plus, I'm betting that the university won't be keen to acquire a reputation as "the film department that fucks filmmakers over." *
of course Boston University doesn't desire any such reputation; it's pretty clear the administration, not to mention many of the other film faculty, would rather not touch Carney with a ten-foot pole. and I believe most understand that this is an issue with Carney, not BU or their film program more broadly. he's already irreparably damaged his reputation in the field (which he always inflated anyway).

but BU also does not want a long and costly court battle for punishing Carney in some way that violates the terms of his tenure agreement. nor are they likely to want to be a poster child for undermining tenure protections, even given the current hostile environment--their faculty would rightly rebel en masse (and we'd have to suffer Carney actually becoming the martyr to academic freedom that he's long claimed to be). even if they don't mean much to cinephiles bloviating from the other side of the world, these are crucial issues that transcend Carney and Rappaport's dispute.
Last edited by whaleallright on Thu May 29, 2014 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MichaelB
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#144 Post by MichaelB » Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:22 pm

jonah.77 wrote:that's great news; I wonder why Rappaport didn't let on that the original negatives were in Paris all along--or did he?
I was certainly aware that Carney didn't have the original negatives, but of course they're not much use unless you have the funds to generate something from them.

Aflwydd
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#145 Post by Aflwydd » Wed May 28, 2014 7:45 pm

Mr Sausage wrote:
Jeff wrote:Carney responds to The Rappaport Situation, casts himself as a victim of blackmail, extortion, "cyberbullying."
Whatever the actual truth value of that is, I have no doubt that Ray Carney believes every single word of it. I don't think he's uttered a single conscious untruth.
Same here. I am someone who still thinks Carney's academic writing on film is really interesting and share pretty similar philosophies when it comes to art but his behaviour during his whole affair has been disturbing to witness. While I fully believe that he's been treated terribly at Boston University knowing how neoliberal university management attempts to silence any dissenters, it seems that he now feels that people are always out to get him and that he's the sole crusader fighting for the integrity of film and art in the face of innumerable attacks.

Now that he's turned against someone he claimed was a friend and seems to have no logical justification for doing so, those who never liked him anyway have displayed an almost orgasmic glee and let's be honest, care more about making fun of him on an internet forum than about whether Rappaport actually gets his possessions back. Also, if you think that Carney is one of the biggest problems with academia you know nothing about what goes in academia or happen to be the type of person who he attacks.

For me and others who actually don't hate him, I see a man whose mental health doesn't seem to be in a good way and maybe needs help. He's someone who's clearly under constant stress and strain and that is never good for rational thinking, and it just seems that he has adopted a siege mentality where in his mind all criticisms have an agenda behind him. Maybe that attitude inevitable when someone is constantly viciously attacked from so many corners, and I feel he's now beyond the point of being able to comprehend what he's doing here and why he's in the wrong.

I hope for everyone's sake that this can be resolved and that both Rappaport and Carney can get on with their lives but I fear that Ray Carney will have to be lying in a grave before this sad affair comes to an end. The whole situation just makes me really disheartened and honestly sad for both men. It's just horrible.

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zedz
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#146 Post by zedz » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:03 pm

I am shocked (shocked!) that this thread has not yet been retitled Carney's Twilight.

Perkins Cobb
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#147 Post by Perkins Cobb » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:31 pm

zedz wrote:I am shocked (shocked!) that this thread has not yet been retitled Carney's Twilight.
Awesome ... except, retitle it Sawdust and Tinsel, without further explanation.

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domino harvey
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#148 Post by domino harvey » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:33 pm

Sorry, I don't think Bergman is one of the four directors Ray Carney approves of [-X

Perkins Cobb
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#149 Post by Perkins Cobb » Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:41 am

Poetic justice, then.

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AtlantaFella
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Re: Carney-vàle!

#150 Post by AtlantaFella » Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:38 pm

Warning for anyone trying to obtain books directly from Carney's website: I ordered a copy of Cassavetes on Cassavetes and eventually had to dispute my PayPal order since it was never fulfilled nor acknowledged. Still want to read the book though so guess I'll seek out a used copy.

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