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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:25 pm 
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Rarely often is it for me to be memorized and amazed that someone could make such a uniquely genuine and emotional film as this, along with the unique and genuine portrait of Los Angeles that Michael Mann gave this film. It's personally my opinion that to say it's the best crime film ever made underrates it. It's also my opinion that it's one of DeNiro's performances of the last 15 years, as well as Pacino's.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:36 pm 
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It's a huge favorite around here. You'll get plenty of good response to this thread.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:05 pm 
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Heh, I had the strangest experience with this one. I finally rented it years after it came out, and a couple of friends watched with me, saying how much they LOVED it and how great it was - this was after THE INSIDER, which they were also big fans of.

Anyway, they may have been fans, but they sure as hell didn't act like it. Every other scene, they trashed it like they were the robots on Mystery Science Theater. WTF??? Usually came at Pacino's expense with his delivery and certain lines like "Don't waste my MOTHER F***ING time!" (volume goes UP then down) or some of the exchanges he had with his wife, etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:33 am 

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I know I've posted this same thing here about 90 times in various threads and forum incarnations, but I absolutely love this movie. Its power and grace almost make me willing to forgive Mann for the horror he put me through with Last of the Mohicans (almost). I actually haven't seen Heat in several years; when I think about it, the first things that comes to mind are the colors. I love the nighttime reds and blues-- everything seems to glow with a weird intelligence (I know that doesn't make sense, it's just how it feels to me). I also think it's fantastic that the studio actually let Mann make a long-ass, slow film and didn't make him cut things out to "punch it up." It's so wonderfully gradual that it's almost impossible to believe that such a film was actually made in Hollywood.

Finally, like I always do, I'll ask if anyone knows any women who like this movie. I'm seriously the only one I know.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:17 am 
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hearthesilence wrote:
Anyway, they may have been fans, but they sure as hell didn't act like it. Every other scene, they trashed it like they were the robots on Mystery Science Theater. WTF??? Usually came at Pacino's expense with his delivery and certain lines like "Don't waste my MOTHER F***ING time!" (volume goes UP then down) or some of the exchanges he had with his wife, etc.

Pacino's delivery used to always bother me as being unnecessarily over-the-top until I did some digging and found an interview with him that he took that from doing extensive research with L.A. cops. They would often act that way to throw off guys they would question so they wouldn't know what the hell was going on. Also, on one of the extras on the new special edition DVD, Pacino mentions that part of his character's backstory is that he did cocaine which explains soooo much!

Martha wrote:
I know I've posted this same thing here about 90 times in various threads and forum incarnations, but I absolutely love this movie. Its power and grace almost make me willing to forgive Mann for the horror he put me through with Last of the Mohicans (almost).

Heh. Yeah, Mann should really stick to urban crime films which are definitely his strengths. I too am a HUGE fan of this movie and of Mann's films in general (I've watched The Insider and Manhunter countless times).

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I actually haven't seen Heat in several years; when I think about it, the first things that comes to mind are the colors. I love the nighttime reds and blues-- everything seems to glow with a weird intelligence (I know that doesn't make sense, it's just how it feels to me).

Agreed. Mann's color palette is fantastic in this movie. Like that scene where De Niro's character come home and there is this blue filter saturating the entire scene. Fantastic. Blue always serves as a calming, positive color in his movies (if you think about it, in Manhunter, Petersen and his wife make love in their room saturated by blue just before he heads off into danger), red and green symbolize danger and white and gray represent authority and conformity. You really should pick up the new special edition DVD of Heat. It's fantastic -- a must for any fan of this movie. It is more than worth the cost of double-dipping.

Mann really presents a fascinating portrait of L.A. in Heat and then goes on to do it again with Collateral.

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I also think it's fantastic that the studio actually let Mann make a long-ass, slow film and didn't make him cut things out to "punch it up." It's so wonderfully gradual that it's almost impossible to believe that such a film was actually made in Hollywood.

Ironically, you have Last of the Mohicans to thank for that. The commercial success of that movie gave Mann the additional clout to make Heat (that, and getting De Niro and Pacino on board I'm sure didn't hurt :wink: )

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Finally, like I always do, I'll ask if anyone knows any women who like this movie. I'm seriously the only one I know.

Heh. Actually, my wife likes it too, although, she finds it a little too long. However, Collateral is her fave Mann film.


Last edited by Fletch F. Fletch on Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:22 am 
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hearthesilence wrote:
Anyway, they may have been fans, but they sure as hell didn't act like it. Every other scene, they trashed it like they were the robots on Mystery Science Theater. WTF??? Usually came at Pacino's expense with his delivery and certain lines like "Don't waste my MOTHER F***ING time!" (volume goes UP then down) or some of the exchanges he had with his wife, etc.

Actually, my friends and I do the same thing, and we actually use the same line sometimes. It's not done out of condemnation or spite, but out of genuine love and enjoyment. Once you've watched a film a hell of a lot of times, you not only enjoy it with a straight face, but also with a smirk of recognition at to how absurd your own devotion to it is and how its little quirks of style are humorous when at their extremes. We constantly make fun of Pacino's line delivery, because even if it is an accurate demonstration of LA cops, it's still pretty hilarious in his level of commitment. I mean, come on, he kicks a TV out of his car onto the street in front of a bus stop! That's funny on some level isn't it? His speech cadence is also incredibly messed up. He even pauses just before saying Ashley Judd has a "... Grrrreat ASS!". Come on people, this is Pacino at his most ludicrous. Even if it's accurate, it's also hilarious to watch when outside the scenario.

Interestingly enough, the other scene we constantly take jabs at is the other one Fletch mentioned to exemplify Mann's color pallette where Neil comes back to his apartment. The scene is shot very well, and I understand the point of the scene, with Neil returning to a rather sterile, minimal, and tranquil environment, without distractions or anyone else in his life, but if you ever showed that scene out of context, it's a hilarious example of Mann's style. So my movie-obsessed friends and I constantly make light of it by pretending we're pitching the film like we were on Seinfeld.

Movie Exec: "So, what does Neil do when he gets home?"
Me: "Well, he walks in and puts his gun down on the kitchen counter and then walks to the window and stares outside."
My Friend: "See, there you go. That's a scene. Right there, that's it."
Movie Exec:"Well, what's the scene about?"
My Friend:"Nothing!"
Movie Exec: "So why am I watching it?"
Me: "Because it's a movie."
Movie Exec: "Not Yet."

Fletch wrote:
Pacino mentions that part of his character's backstory is that he did cocaine...

Are we sure that's not just part of Pacino's backstory?

Martha wrote:
I also think it's fantastic that the studio actually let Mann make a long-ass, slow film and didn't make him cut things out to "punch it up." It's so wonderfully gradual that it's almost impossible to believe that such a film was actually made in Hollywood.

Well, it does also include one of the most devastatingly abrasive gun-fights ever committed to film, which I'm sure appeased the testosterone-fueled viewers. The sound of those guns as they rip through the streets of LA is incredible.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:07 pm 

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Funny this thread should appear today: on Sunday I remembered how much I liked Heat the first time I saw it and went out and bought the SE. Unfortunately I can't think of anything to say other than to echo that this is the best action movie I'm aware of. The intelligence and details are unmatched--if not, I'd really appreciate someone pointing me to a comparably careful action film.

Wife and I watched it the night I bought it and it was awesome. That's my story.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:32 pm 
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Andre Jurieu wrote:
Actually, my friends and I do the same thing, and we actually use the same line sometimes. It's not done out of condemnation or spite, but out of genuine love and enjoyment. Once you've watched a film a hell of a lot of times, you not only enjoy it with a straight face, but also with a smirk of recognition at to how absurd your own devotion to it is and how its little quirks of style are humorous when at their extremes. We constantly make fun of Pacino's line delivery, because even if it is an accurate demonstration of LA cops, it's still pretty hilarious in his level of commitment. I mean, come on, he kicks a TV out of his car onto the street in front of a bus stop! That's funny on some level isn't it? His speech cadence is also incredibly messed up. He even pauses just before saying Ashley Judd has a "... Grrrreat ASS!". Come on people, this is Pacino at his most ludicrous. Even if it's accurate, it's also hilarious to watch when outside the scenario.

I agree with this sentiment as well. Not to mention Pacino's facial expression when he says, "ASS!" is very, very funny! And knowing what a control freak Mann is I'm sure he intended Pacino's OTT moments to be humorous on some level. Plus, what else could Pacino do up against De Niro who plays his role so minimalist but go the opposite direction? :wink:

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Fletch wrote:
Pacino mentions that part of his character's backstory is that he did cocaine...

Are we sure that's not just part of Pacino's backstory?

heh, yeah, you can never tell with that guy. How else can we explain Author, Author?

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Well, it does also include one of the most devastatingly abrasive gun-fights ever committed to film, which I'm sure appeased the testosterone-fueled viewers. The sound of those guns as they rip through the streets of LA is incredible.

Yep! I can remember seeing this movie in the theater when it came out and the sound when those guns went off was deafening. Apparently, Mann hates the traditional sound of movie guns going off and actually recorded sounds of guns firing off live rounds and put it in the movie.

Watching Collateral in the theater he did the same thing... the night club scene where Vincent starts killing people had the same visceral impact with those gun shots louder than hell! Fantastic...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:57 pm 
Heat has got to be one of the best films of the '90's, and Michael Mann's best film to date. Nice to hear from other fans of the film.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:04 am 
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Not sure about that. Pacino's performance is way over the top (just like his Oscar winning role in 'scent of a woman'). De Niro is ok but not even close to his top form.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:51 pm 
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I thought the acting was great for this type of film, very appropriate. I especially love the scene where Pacino takes De Niro out for coffee. And the gunfight in this film ranks right up there with the Wild Bunch and more recently, Open Range.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:47 pm 
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Didn't his list also include Bottle Rocket, or have I successfully lost my mind?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:02 am 
Yep, Bottle Rocket was on his list. So was Bad Lieutenant, which is a great film as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:04 am 
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Does anyone have Marty's complete list? I remember reading Ebert's on his imdb.com biography.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:20 am 
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As for the "bad" acting -- I'm of the belief that "acting" is the least important element of any film, and there's no shortage of great films with bad acting.

That's interesting view. Put Julia Roberts or Tom Cruise in the starring roles of "passion of Joan Arc", "raging bull", "breaking the waves", to name a few, and I am not sure whether they would have become the kind of masterpieces they are right now.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:53 pm 

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I moved the discussion about Marty's top 10 over here. Now talk about Val Kilmer's hair!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:17 am 
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Those long, perfect golden locks? *SIGH*


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 9:14 am 
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This could be interesting but only if they get Mann onboad in some capacity:

Pacino, De Niro bring "Heat" to videogame


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 10:26 am 
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Yes, if Mann gets aboard it, the potential for the project should be pretty good. Part of me thinks this is kind of ridiculous, especially with the news that there is a Sopranos game in the works. But on the other hand this could end up a good concept, like the forthcoming Dirty Harry videogame (mind you, not the one Nintendo put out in the early 90's lol). I think Apocalypse Now would make a perfect game, partly given that alot of games have ripped it off already. Now that I think about it, some of Tarantino's work would lend itself well to this kind of interpretation, especially Resevoir Dogs and Kill Bill.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 11:23 am 
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I don't think the idea of a Heat video game is necessarily a bad one. By most accounts, the recently released Godfather game is quite good while still honoring the source material.

I don't think Mann has to be on board either to guarantee success. He is a film director, not a game director and the approaches are vastly different. (Coppola wasn't involved in the Godfather game and denounced it despite the results). But I do think they need to treat the source material with respect and make sure the tone and characters carry over.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 12:39 pm 
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Well, they might use Mann's clout to get some of the actors (Kilmer) back to record their voices for the game. And maybe he could think up some story ideas for the game?

I thought that video game sequel (of sorts) to John Carpenter's The Thing was very well done... great atmosphere and I liked how you had to keep the rest of your crew calm and or they would start to become disloyal. I felt that the game remained very true in spirit and tone to the film.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:26 pm 
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Antoine Doinel wrote:
I don't think the idea of a Heat video game is necessarily a bad one. By most accounts, the recently released Godfather game is quite good while still honoring the source material.

I don't think Mann has to be on board either to guarantee success. He is a film director, not a game director and the approaches are vastly different. (Coppola wasn't involved in the Godfather game and denounced it despite the results). But I do think they need to treat the source material with respect and make sure the tone and characters carry over.

Now that I think about it, you're right. I don't play videogames as much as I used to, but I know my brother will pick it up once it gets on shelves, so it'll be fun to see what happens. What I really hope is that they utilize the original film music.

BTW, there is a Reservoir Dogs game being made. Unfortunately, only Michael Madsen is the only cast member to do his character.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:44 am 

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I always thought Mann's epic was a great work of brilliance, but watching it again recently I'm finally ready to rank Heat as the best crime drama / heist film of the last few decades, if not ever. It really is a perfect work; oozing class, style and sophistication from every frame... and the bank shootout for me is the single most thrilling action sequence in movie history, bar none. Needless to say I rate this full marks.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:11 am 
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kieslowski_67 wrote:
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As for the "bad" acting -- I'm of the belief that "acting" is the least important element of any film, and there's no shortage of great films with bad acting.

That's interesting view. Put Julia Roberts or Tom Cruise in the starring roles of "passion of Joan Arc", "raging bull", "breaking the waves", to name a few, and I am not sure whether they would have become the kind of masterpieces they are right now.

It's a common school of thought around here, one that is about as foreign to my sensibilities as possible.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:30 pm 
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flyonthewall2983 wrote:
Antoine Doinel wrote:
I don't think the idea of a Heat video game is necessarily a bad one. By most accounts, the recently released Godfather game is quite good while still honoring the source material.

I don't think Mann has to be on board either to guarantee success. He is a film director, not a game director and the approaches are vastly different. (Coppola wasn't involved in the Godfather game and denounced it despite the results). But I do think they need to treat the source material with respect and make sure the tone and characters carry over.

Now that I think about it, you're right. I don't play videogames as much as I used to, but I know my brother will pick it up once it gets on shelves, so it'll be fun to see what happens. What I really hope is that they utilize the original film music.

BTW, there is a Reservoir Dogs game being made. Unfortunately, only Michael Madsen is the only cast member to do his character.


I got the The Godfather game for PS2 a few weeks ago and I have to say I was very impressed. Essentially, your character is taken under the wing of the Corleone family after your father is killed doing a job for them. The goal of the game is to rise through the ranks of the family as you complete various tasks for them. It's very well done, and you interact with the cast from the film (with most of the voices) but it honors the world of the film very very well. Of course, being a videogame, it doesn't get to the emotional depth of the film, but that's why it's game and not a movie.


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