Silent Film Music

[Kirkinson]

But for the sake of discussion, I'm wondering if anyone here uses music from their own collection when viewing silents?

I tried this at various points in Man with a Movie Camera and uploaded this clip to Google Video which syncs Aaron Jay Kernis's New Era Dance to the end of the film. I've been eager try more of this sort of thing, but I just haven't had the time to dedicate to it lately. It would be an interesting experiment to try in conjunction with efforts to become more well-rounded in silent film altogether, which is something else I haven't had time for lately.

[Subbuteo]

Nice work Kirk, the Kernis works really well... joyous in places.

[Tommaso]

Talking of silent film music, here's one I nearly forgot to mention: the widely unknown (I believe) "Napoli che canta" (1926) by Roberto Roberti with music by Italian singer Giuni Russo.

The film itself would fit into the old thread about "lesser-known City Symphonies": it's a wonderful, and very 'romantic' portrait of Naples in the 20s, with enchanting shots of the sea, the harbour and the daily life of the people. Taken from a print which miraculously found its way to the George Eastman House, it's beautifully restored and tinted, and the music is a very well-fitting selection and new interpretation of traditional Napolitan folk songs which greatly enhances the impact. I totally freaked out when I watched this first (possibly a little influenced by my stay in that city where I also happened to pick up the dvd rather by chance, but I think it IS brilliant).

Details about the film and the dvd can be found here; but as the picture wouldn't load right now, also have a look here. It seems to be out of print, but if you can get it somewhere, I'd highly recommend it, even if the film is only 30 minutes. The film itself has English subs (or even titles, can't remember right now), the extras are insignificant and are all centered around the singer (and are in Italian exclusively). It seems to be out of print, but if you can get it somewhere, I'd highly recommend it, even if the film is only 30 minutes. Truly a gem.

[LQ]

Eh, i really couldn't think of were else to put this...but this is as good as any spot.

Last year I saw Nosferatu on the big screen at a special event in DE, with a live music score (different from the original film score) played by the Devil Music Ensemble. and they were awesome. I almost didn't pay any attention to the film; I was so enraptured with their performance, switching up instruments and such. Anyway, they've released their fall tour; they're doing live music for Red Heroine (?), Cabinet of Dr Caligari, and Dr Jeckyl and Mr Hyde.

I highly recommend this experience.

[Cold Bishop]

Red Heroine (?)

The lone surviving episode to a Chinese wuxia serial. It's been doing the rounds recently. Interesting choice.

[Adam]

In Southern California, it will be at the Silent Movie Theatre on Sept 24 and the Pacific Asia Museum in Pasadena on Sept 25. Looking forward to it.

[LQ]

Red Heroine (?)

The lone surviving episode to a Chinese wuxia serial. It's been doing the rounds recently. Interesting choice.

They're being sponsored by the Boston Asian Community Developement Co, so perhaps that's why its their major attraction.

[Wombatz]

I usually watch the silents silent, I like to feel the flow of images, the cuts in the editing with my eyes. (Was it Arnheim or somebody else in the 20s who advocated silent projection with real-time discussion of the movie by the audience? too lazy to look it up.) "Traditional" comping usually does nothing for me, most of the time the music has aged much more rapidly than the film (it was utility music after all, which changes with the seasons and fads, not art in itself), and just putting on some random Sibelius will give the film more emotional impact than the soundtrack it is sold with most of the time.

I do enjoy experimental soundtracks (I maybe have to say that most of these "experiments" are safely within the sounds I listen to as music every day). I hugely enjoy the KTL edition of Phantom Carriage. Yes, it does overburden the film somewhen through the middle, but the beginning and end are so haunting. Hell, I even enjoy the Cinematic Orchestra soundtrack to The Man with a Movie Camera (maybe it's facile, but it carries the whole thing surprisingly well). Iris ter Shiphorst on La Coquille et le Clergyman is very good. Also there's a splendid music to Nosferatu by Jose Maria Sanchez Verdu, very minimal, bleak, and inexorable sounding, though I don't think it's made it to dvd.

Ok, caveat, I'm playing silents myself, but on the whole I have found live experiences of music to silents much more invigorating than almost any DVD version. I remember a guitar on percussion duo (can't remember who they were, it's a shame) absolutely syncing half an hour of Melies which was the only time I really loved watching his stuff. (And usually I'm strictly a sync it and you sink it guy.) I enjoy the feeling of: hey, this is one possible interpretation, it's in the now and you can violently disagree and still enjoy, that the live experience brings.

Witchcraft through the Ages, which someone mentions here, really combines all that's great imho. It's the only dvd track I know of that feels like being there . . .

[HerrSchreck]

If you like Witchcraft Through The Ages (which benefits more from the dry larynx of Honest Uncle Bill Burroughs than it does Jean luc P), you'd probably dig this edition of Menilmontant.. which is just a bit too immature to my nose. But I've heard worse misfires.

[Sloper]

I hugely enjoy the KTL edition of Phantom Carriage. Yes, it does overburden the film somewhen through the middle, but the beginning and end are so haunting.

I have to disagree – I bought the KTL on the strength of the ‘taster’ on the other edition, which was indeed very effective and chilling, focusing on the famously creepy soul-gathering sequences. The trouble is that Phantom Carriage, though indescribably eerie in those scenes, is not a horror film, and it feels like the KTL guys are not really in tune with what the film is trying to do.

I had a similar experience recently seeing Nosferatu accompanied live by a band who call themselves Misty’s Big Adventure (sounds like a Miyazaki film...) There were a few good ideas in there, but the whole thing was maddeningly repetitive. The first act of Nosferatu is not exactly thrilling to begin with; accompanied by an endlessly repeated phrase on the glockenspiel, it’s like the Spanish Inquisition. There was one lovely bit when Hutter, about to be visited in his room by Orlock, takes out the book on vampire lore and stares at it in horror, and the creepy music suddenly flared up into a sort of hellish wail, as though the book itself were possessed by demons; a great uncanny moment, obviously drawing upon the techniques of recent ‘J-horror’ films. But therein lies the problem: experimental accompanists like KTL and Misty seem to be trying to impose a more ‘modern’ flavour on these films, rather than interpreting them. It’s hard to see why they took on the projects, other than for the prestige value. The experimental approach can turn into navel-gazing; at some point, whether you sync absolutely or not, you have to be self-effacing enough to provide accompaniment.

Matti Bye’s score for Phantom Carriage was also disappointing. He seems much more comfortable with the epic sweep of Stiller’s Gosta Berling and Sir Arne. Sjostrom’s subtler and (ironically in this instance) more down-to-earth style demanded something slower and more restrained, maybe a solo piano. I found myself thinking of Carl Davis’s great ‘bar-room’ music for Greed.

Speaking of Davis, I’ve seen him three times at Symphony Hall in Birmingham accompanying Keaton and Lloyd with his own full-orchestra scores, to a packed (Symphony Hall is enormous) and extremely responsive house. Like a once-in-a-lifetime experience, only more frequent.

Wombatz – what sort of films have you accompanied? Are you solo, or in a band?

[Gregory]

I think Daniel Humair is always worth listening to, and his score for Witchcraft Through the Ages is outstanding. I certainly wouldn't want to watch that version every time, of course.

The Exzentrische Filmorchester music for Ménilmontant that Schreck linked is intriguing, and I wish I knew whether they're still active. Two of the three musicians in the group -- Willi Kellers and Heiner Reinhardt -- are familiar to me, as they've been making creative and engaging music within the European improv scene for decades. But although they're playing good music together as a group, I find it too tempestuous for Kirsanoff's film at several moments.\

Substituting alternate soundtracks for silent film DVDs used to be something I did occasionally, but now I do it most of the time. I don't think I'll ever sit through another dull synthesizer score again, if I can help it. (All the predictable piano scores have started to grate somewhat.) Last night I watched The Wicked Darling from the Image DVD and Queen of Sports from the Chinese Film Classics Collection, and both had me frantically reaching for the turntable within moments.

[Wombatz]

If you like Witchcraft Through The Ages (which benefits more from the dry larynx of Honest Uncle Bill Burroughs than it does Jean luc P), you'd probably dig this edition of Menilmontant.. which is just a bit too immature to my nose. But I've heard worse misfires.

Thanks for the link. 5 minutes in I suspect I completely disagree with the music (I mean why do the girls get somewhat more clatter then the wringing of necks, and the sounds generally really crowd the images) . . . but then I think due to its episodic nature Haxan needs some input from the soundtrack, which Menilmontant doesn't. Yeah, I'd hate this on a dvd soundtrack, but I'd love going out to see the film and get this kind of interpretation.

[Wombatz]

I hugely enjoy the KTL edition of Phantom Carriage. Yes, it does overburden the film somewhen through the middle, but the beginning and end are so haunting.

I have to disagree – I bought the KTL on the strength of the ‘taster’ on the other edition, which was indeed very effective and chilling, focusing on the famously creepy soul-gathering sequences. The trouble is that Phantom Carriage, though indescribably eerie in those scenes, is not a horror film, and it feels like the KTL guys are not really in tune with what the film is trying to do.

I had a similar experience recently seeing Nosferatu accompanied live by a band who call themselves Misty’s Big Adventure (sounds like a Miyazaki film...) There were a few good ideas in there, but the whole thing was maddeningly repetitive. The first act of Nosferatu is not exactly thrilling to begin with; accompanied by an endlessly repeated phrase on the glockenspiel, it’s like the Spanish Inquisition. There was one lovely bit when Hutter, about to be visited in his room by Orlock, takes out the book on vampire lore and stares at it in horror, and the creepy music suddenly flared up into a sort of hellish wail, as though the book itself were possessed by demons; a great uncanny moment, obviously drawing upon the techniques of recent ‘J-horror’ films. But therein lies the problem: experimental accompanists like KTL and Misty seem to be trying to impose a more ‘modern’ flavour on these films, rather than interpreting them. It’s hard to see why they took on the projects, other than for the prestige value. The experimental approach can turn into navel-gazing; at some point, whether you sync absolutely or not, you have to be self-effacing enough to provide accompaniment.

I think we sort of agree on the KTL thing, the music doesn't work for the complete film. Only I value the initial impact more, it's very inspiring.

While I generally would agree about providing accompaniment, that's a difficult topic. Usually one would tolerate a pianist switching between hesitant ragtime and mock chopin simply because that's the accepted formula handed down by tradition, but I find this approach grating, because it dates the film, which, if it is good, is timeless. Still I agree it doesn't need a modern flavor, but it's all about interpretation. (Being maddeningly repetitive can be part of the game though, most movie scores thrive on a couple of themes. We've played Nosferatu, by the way, and I think how you tackle the first act is the core to an interpretation, you need to avoid Hutter looking like a caricature, he must be someone acting head- and hopelessly because he's unable to see beneath surfaces. In the end, we put a single development of mood over the whole film, no breaks, just swells and ebbs and lots of static crackle. It went over well with the audience, only I think the organiser had expected more notes per buck, he seemed quite flabbergasted.) But to pick out an extreme example, no average audience here could sit through Dulac's L'invitation au voyage without some massive support from the musicians. There's no use being self-effacing there, you need to start translating.

(Thanks for the interest, we're a duo, have only played a dozen or so films yet. Most of it in local clubs; we pitch the films we love to them, play in front of mostly open-minded folks who do not know what to expect, then pass around the hat afterwards. If you follow the link in my profile you get to our myspace site, which is still very much in construction. But I'm posting here strictly as a enthusiastic consumer, of course )

[PillowRock]

Usually one would tolerate a pianist switching between hesitant ragtime and mock chopin simply because that's the accepted formula handed down by tradition, but I find this approach grating, because it dates the film, which, if it is good, is timeless.

With respect to period music "dating" a film: I think that it rather depends upon the movie in question.

If you're talking about a movie such as, for example, Metropolis where the time period of the setting is unspecified and indeterminate ..... then, yes, using music that is too specifically tied to the period of the movie's production can have that effect. The same thing can happen if the movie was a period piece at that time. In a movie set in ancient Rome a score that is too identifiably rooted in the Jazz Age just become incongruous.

However, if you are talking about a movie that is very specifically set in the 1910's or 1920's then using music appropriate to that time period becomes a scoring choice that might very well have been made regardless of when the movie was actually made. In that case, using a period styled score can still work very well.

A year or so ago I attended a screening of Wings in an old "movie palace" that still has its original 1920-something pipe organ with sound effect keys. Wings is so obviously and specifically tied to the World War I time period setting that the live organist's choices of period music felt perfectly appropriate; not "dated" at all to my ear.

[Wombatz]

I haven't seen Wings, but yes, and speaking of Clara Bow it maybe also wouldn't make much sense to do a contemporary soundtrack to her vehicles. But in a way, that means "dating" the film (as opposed to making it look dated). And I wouldn't want to watch a serious movie like The Crowd with somebody happily tickling the ivories period-style.

Back to Menilmontant: wherever there's a clue (eg the clock, but also a change of location), it seems Das exzentrische Filmorchester is several seconds off, they probably played to a different cut (as will usually happen). So I think I'd have thoroughly enjoyed that screening. Much better than the echo-drenched sauce Paul Mercer smears over the story (also on youtube). Even if he seems to channel Ponty at times

[swo17]

Hundreds of original scores to silent films unearthed in England

[SalParadise]

I find that many silent films suffer from an average musical score. I feel this is because those scores which don't fit well with the film are composed by part-time composers and composers who have never been hired to score a contemporary film so have no proper idea how to go about the job.

Just imagine if one of these working composers scored a silent film - Philip Glass, Ennio Morricone, Alexandre Desplat, Michael Nyman, Gabriel Yared, Howard Shore, Thomas Newman.

Now, these are all giants who I'm sure command a very high salary, so the chances of any one agreeing to score a film would be low.

However, if together, we nominate one film to be scored by one specific composer and then start an online petition, it might get the ball rolling.

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

Nyman has actually done several silent scores -- Man With a Movie Camera, The Eleventh Year, A Sixth Part of the World, À propos de Nice, Manhatta, maybe one or two others I missed. The Vertovs are out on DVD from Filmmuseum and the BFI. As I understand it, Nyman's silent scores are mostly reworkings of existing pieces, but that's nothing out of the ordinary for him.

[Lemmy Caution]

I always found this packaging to be extremely bizarre:

You have to squint to see Vertov's name on there.
When I first saw that I wasn't completely sure if it was the Vertov film or some re-working or whatnot.

[Ann Harding]

I find that many silent films suffer from an average musical score. I feel this is because those scores which don't fit well with the film are composed by part-time composers and composers who have never been hired to score a contemporary film so have no proper idea how to go about the job.
Just imagine if one of these working composers scored a silent film - Philip Glass, Ennio Morricone, Alexandre Desplat, Michael Nyman, Gabriel Yared, Howard Shore, Thomas Newman.

It sounds like a good idea on paper. But, being a modern film composer doesn't make you necessarily a great silent film composer. I have a good example. Two French film composers Antoine Duhamel and Pierre Jansen were asked to write a score for Griffith's Intolerance in the early 90s. The result was pretty dire. They ignored the lighter moments and wrote a broad darkish orchestral score that felt like 'background music'. If you compare it with Carl Davis' masterful score, it's even more disastrous. The battle scenes are incredibly well delineated by Davis whereas with Jansen & Duhamel, it's just chaotic and continuous loud chromatic mess. Basically, writing for silent film is a very different job. You have to create the characters with the music. You don't need to do that for a talkie. I think Carl Davis is right when he says that silent film music is more like an opera or a ballet. The music supports the atmosphere, the characters continuously. In a modern film, music is far more sparse.

[Sloper]

Ennio Morricone has done at least one silent film score - the 1912 Richard III - and it's bloody awful, showing absolutely no sensitivity to the material and no sense of what makes the film effective. The idea seems to have been to give the whole film an air of archaic and vaguely horrifying mystery, as though it were some kind of video curse excavated from a huanted burial ground; in other words, the score desperately tries to 'sell' the film to an audience who are presumed not to have any prior experience of watching silent films - not a bad idea as such, but misguided in the execution. (I though it was very similar to KTL's Phantom Carriage score; effective for a couple of minutes, but basically inappropriate.)

Someone like Carl Davis is not that great at scoring talkies (though he's not bad either, from what I know of his work), but he has precisely the sensitivity and sensibility required for silents. Napoleon is another case in point: I like Carmine Coppola's score for Apocalypse Now quite a lot, but when it comes to Gance he's clueless.

So I agree with Ann on this one, although generally speaking it would be nice to see more 'professional' film score composers work on silents.

[MichaelB]

It's probably worth mentioning that Glass has done two film scores to pre-existing films - neither of them were silent, but they might as well have been. But Tod Browning's Dracula barely had any music at all in its original version, and what Glass did with La Belle et la Bête amounts to a wholesale reconceptualising of the entire film rather than a simple scoring job.

Someone like Carl Davis is not that great at scoring talkies (though he's not bad either, from what I know of his work), but he has precisely the sensitivity and sensibility required for silents. Napoleon is another case in point: I like Carmine Coppola's score for Apocalypse Now quite a lot, but when it comes to Gance he's clueless.

I don't know anyone who prefers Coppola to Davis when it comes to scoring Napoléon, despite the fact that Coppola's score is almost entirely original (the unavoidable 'Marseillaise' aside), whereas Davis is largely a Bach-Beethoven-Mozart mash-up. But the Davis score is physically thrilling in performance in a way that the Coppola one didn't come anywhere near, because Davis is a silent-film composer to his fingertips.

[matrixschmatrix]

How well is Richard Einhorn known in the music world? His Voices of Light strikes me as the single best scoring for a silent movie that wasn't written as part of the movie-making process I've ever heard, and the material about him on the Criterion disc implied that he has some cachet as a modernist musician, but I'm not at all familiar with that context. In any case, both that and Philip Glasses also breathtaking Beauty and the Beast score were written because the musicians felt inspired to create a piece based on the movie, rather than being written to commission (or at least, that's my understanding) while Glass's much less interesting Dracula score was something specifically asked of him- which makes me leery of the idea of just matching various musicians up with great films and asking for a score.

[Jonathan S]

...the score desperately tries to 'sell' the film to an audience who are presumed not to have any prior experience of watching silent films...

I haven't heard it myself but this also seems to apply to the AIR score for the restored colour version of A Trip to the Moon, judging from what I've read on Nitrateville:

The music sounds like the bastard child of Pink Floyd and 1970s porno movie soundtracks. It doesn't hit a single accent in the film. During chase scenes it noodles along aimlessly. Explosions happen on the screen as the underwater synth sounds loop on and on. The music makes the film seem boring, and that's quite a trick. I have no idea why they used this track in the first place, and I'm even more baffled why they provided no alternative.

In reply for Flicker Alley:

The AIR score as exclusive accompaniment is a contractual requirement imposed by agreement between AIR and the Foundations that paid a huge amount of money for this project that, not withstanding the short running time of the film, is probably the most complex film restoration ever undertaken. Some people may not like the music but others do, and it came about because the Foundations polled several leading current French film directors who recommended AIR. Certainly it is a matter of taste and there is no right and wrong. There is a sunset on the AIR score because it was Melies' wish that the film be accompanied "in the mode" and of course, "the mode" in music changes rather quickly over time.... Any music may be used at live performances.

He added later that the expiry date of the AIR score is "years away". So those of us who hate this kind of anachronistic music on silents will have to do without the restoration, watch it mute or (if technically savvy enough) merge it with another existing score for the film. The FA release is one of the very few I haven't bought - though that's partly because the Blu-ray was region-locked, another contractual obligation apparently!

[Minkin]

Does the Cinematic Orchestra's score for Man with a Movie Camera have any fans around here? (I think I remember Manicsounds was as well, if I'm not mistaken). I have yet to watch the film with any other score, simply because I find their interpretation so brilliant. Their take on Theme de Yoyo is perhaps the highlight.

I have been disappointed with some master scores - after having heard new versions first. The prime example might be the Nosferatu score. I shouldn't complain about having the original, formerly lost score, but it's nothing too exciting (and hardly seems to match the film: prime example being the scene where Orlok enters Hutter's room at night) . My preference is for the Silent Orchestra score on the Image disc. I also can't really stomach the original Nibelungenlied score. I'll die happy if Gaylord Carter's organ score ends up on MOC's disc.

I suppose we shouldn't complain too much -since some companies are actually commissioning new music, rather than dumping Toccata on everything. Perhaps my favorite PD bandit score tale is my first encounter with Birth of a Nation - which had the Holbern symphony played on repeat. It worked out a lot better than you might initially fear. It had the added bonus of also starting my love for Grieg - so whatever.

If anything should be attacked, it's every Gothic Industrial band's rite of passage: composing a score for Nosferatu.

Last thing before I stop: Does Tangerine Dream's score for L'Inferno ever improve? I've attempted it many times, but can't get past the first five minutes - and I would rather wait for something else than see it completely silent.