Kevin Smith: Vox populi

[Monterey Jack]

I can only assume it's the movie version of taking a picture of your meal for instagram cred or whatever.
"Seeing this classic! #iwasbornwhenshekissedmeidiedwhensheleftmeilivedafewweekswhileshelovedme #noircity22"

What's even worse are people recording or photographing THEMSELVES as they react to a movie. Embarrassing to see Kevin Smith share pictures of his watery-eyed, mournful face after getting out of...Black Panther: Wakanda Forever?

[domino harvey]

He was presumably crying because he had to go to the bathroom and held it in for all six hours of the film

[hearthesilence]

Kind of pathetic how he's mocked Scorsese for being "stuck in his ways" when he acts and dresses like he's still in junior high.

[Mr Sausage]

Kind of pathetic how he's mocked Scorsese for being "stuck in his ways" when he acts and dresses like he's still in junior high.

And has just been making sequels to all his old movies.

[FrauBlucher]

I didn't know Kevin Smith was still in the business

[knives]

He might be the director who’s fallen the most of any I can think of. He used to be fairly legitimate and now he makes sub-Wynorski streaming fillers.

[yoloswegmaster]

Kevin Smith's crying-over-Marvel posts have been cringy but those are nothing compared to whatever the fuck is happening here. I don't know what's worse, all the people that have their phones out or the fact that he had someone record this nonsense.

[furbicide]

Kind of surprised nobody went Mark Corrigan on this guy

[beamish14]

He might be the director who’s fallen the most of any I can think of. He used to be fairly legitimate and now he makes sub-Wynorski streaming fillers.

Kevin Smith just released a film that can only be purchased as an NFT. “Jumping the shark” doesn’t begin to describe this jackass

[domino harvey]

Guess he didn't realize we were all saying No Fucking Thanks to a new movie from him?

[furbicide]

I take it none of you guys read Nick Pinkerton's (very funny and kind of moving) recent long-form KS tribute? Not a Smith fan myself, but it made me see his work in a slightly more affectionate light:

https://nickpinkerton.substack.com/p/talk-is-cheap

Why then, now, midway upon the journey of my life, when in all likelihood I have more sunsets behind me than ahead, did I pick up the habit of watching Kevin Smith movies again? The inciting incident was an anecdote that was passed on to me by my friend, the writer/director Michael M. Bilandic. Years ago, Mike told me, when he was working as a producer on Abel Ferrara’s 2010 documentary Mulberry St., he’d shared a screenplay he’d written with Abel, that of his first feature, 2011’s Happy Life. Abel, who would wind up with an executive producer credit on the finished film, was excited about the script, and by way of praising it compared it to the work of… Kevin Smith. When Mike balked at the comparison—and who in 2010 would relish being likened to the auteur of Cop Out?—Abel came back with a spirited defense, something to the effect of: “You don’t like fuckin’ Clerks, bro? The fuck is wrong with you? It’s a working-class classic, man!”

While it’s unclear as to if the director of The Blackout (1997) has seen any of Smith’s films aside from Clerks (I would venture to guess he has not), his word carries some weight, and reconsidering Smith as a specifically working-class filmmaker made him suddenly interesting again, if only because today’s American independent cinema isn’t exactly overrun by men and women from blue-collar backgrounds. (Of the abovementioned Sundance Darlings of yore, only Linklater and Hartley share Smith’s legitimate Joe Lunchpail bona fides.) Seen in this light, maybe Haskell was right to invoke Clerks before La maman et la putain, because Eustache was himself a blue-collar guy, and as such an outlier among post-New Wave directors; furthermore, don’t both films show characters who struggle to reconcile the mores of post-Sexual Revolution dating with recidivist Catholic guilt?—in Eustache’s, Françoise Lebrun’s Veronika, who in the film’s final scene drunkenly rails against the life of barren bed-hopping she’s been leading before pleading the virtues of procreation and fidelity; in Smith’s, O’Halloran’s Dante Hicks, who must come to terms with the fact that his girlfriend, played by Marilyn Ghigliotti, sucked 36 men’s dicks prior to the beginning of their relationship. (His brings the total to 37.) And what to make of the obscure family resemblance between Jay and Silent Bob, Smith’s signature characters, and Insane Clown Posse’s Mutt-and-Jeff duo, Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope? The old logo for Smith’s View Askew Productions, which depicts an obese clown, wearing only garters and stripper heels, holding a clapper board? The 2000 View Askew-produced Vulgar, a cheapjack prototype of Todd Phillips’s Joker (2019) in which O’Halloran stars as a much-abused birthday party clown who sets his sights on revenge? Was there some kind of occult connection between the Juggalos, the View Askewniverse, and Joker fandom—three cults widely disdained by the culturati, each distinguished by their appeal to disillusioned working-class American males? I had to learn more.

[therewillbeblus]

Guess he didn't realize we were all saying No Fucking Thanks to a new movie from him?

I haven't seen anything since Tusk but I was kinda hoping he'd actually follow through on Moose Jaws. For someone so shameless, I'm disappointed to've called his bluff on making what would surely be the definitive exemplar of his creative prowess

[knives]

I take it none of you guys read Nick Pinkerton's (very funny and kind of moving) recent long-form KS tribute? Not a Smith fan myself, but it made me see his work in a slightly more affectionate light:

https://nickpinkerton.substack.com/p/talk-is-cheap

That is indeed a nice tribute, but if I was going to support a working class director who can’t quite make great I'd much rather be found supporting someone like Dito Montiel who mixes working class concerns with actual talent.

[domino harvey]

I’m not reading beyond that excerpt, because these comparisons are more of a stretch than the waistband on Kevin Smith’s favorite pair of JNCOs

[Mr Sausage]

Anyone else think 'working class' is not a profound or interesting thing to call a movie?

[knives]

Yes

[beamish14]

John Hughes, in his last published interview, singled out Smith for having a “regional” flair in his films, which is probably a kinder and more accurate descriptor of his works

[Never Cursed]

I’m not reading beyond that excerpt, because these comparisons are more of a stretch than the waistband on Kevin Smith’s favorite pair of JNCOs

Agreed 100%. Pinkerton is no dummy and he's written insightful stuff before, but that also means he knows what he's doing with this piece (i.e., lionizing a director on the basis of ginned-up personal affection more than anything) in a way that a breathless undergraduate would not. I am, however, sad to see that you did not take the bait of his ICP comparison!

[colinr0380]

I remember the last time that Kevin Smith crossed my radar, he was making a remarkably emotional and heartfelt tribute to Alan Rickman.

Since we have a Kevin Smith thread now, here's the time he appeared on Newsnight Review in 2009 (Part 2, Part 3, and Part 4). Not only is it a good chance to reminisce about the pre-slimline Smith, but its also an interesting time capsule of the period just at the beginning of the Age of the Marvel movies. I especially like the horrified reaction from the other guests to Smith talking about entering a new age of 'mysticism' rather than religion! He was sort of correct in his prediction there. And during the Kick-Ass debate section forget Batman v Superman, here's Kevin Smith vs Jeanette Winterson! (I'm with Winterson in that battle!)

[Mr Sausage]

John Hughes, in his last published interview, singled out Smith for having a “regional” flair in his films, which is probably a kinder and more accurate descriptor of his works

Another reason the working class moniker sits so ill with Smith's work, especially the early Jersey films, is because what it really has is that 90s slacker/stoner ethos, an arrested adolescence and dissatisfaction with the workaday world. And that's a very different thing. The people in Smith's world worry more about their own boredom and aimlessness than they do the rising cost of living or job security or any typically working-class concerns. The endless pop culture riffs are there to stave off ennui, not the crushing realities of capitalism. So you have movies about people hanging around in malls avoiding the local bully and scheming to get their girlfriends back--like teenagers. Or struggling comic book artists whose biggest struggle is their relationships. In the early movies, everyone feels very young, and their biggest problems are rarely financial (even when the characters have no money). The characters' lives never feel absent of opportunity; it's the opposite. Their problem is always that slacker disinclination to actually embrace opportunity if it comes at the cost of comfort. His characters encounter internal barriers, not social ones. Blah blah blah.

I haven't seen a Smith film post-Jersey Girl, but from what I've seen/heard, Smith seems to've turned into a sentimental old man. And that's too bad for a man who, at one time, was fine with ending a romantic comedy with the two lovers failing to get back together. There was a more interesting and mature side to Smith that he seems to've abandoned.

[therewillbeblus]

I think his horror stuff (Red State and Tusk) is competently made, though not particularly great either. The latter is wildly inconsistent (the Depp material in the last act is gratingly bad in every respect, the beginning horribly acted/directed) but some of the horror-comedy stuff with Michael Parks is hysterical for leaning fully into the insanity of the premise. I can think of several people here who would get something out of it, and I laughed out loud with a theatre audience at one scene in particular where Justin Long's character is sincerely freaking out as he acclimates to his transformation while Parks (and Smith, in how he frames the shot objectively) laughs maniacally. It's not easy to locate and strike a balance for that twisted humor to fully blossom, but he nailed it a couple times amidst the sloppy tilting

I guess what I'm saying is how I've always felt about Smith: He can make compelling scenes, he just typically holds a low batting avg for the competence/totally incompetence ratio, even within films that aren't so tonally ambitious

[zedz]

He might be the director who’s fallen the most of any I can think of. He used to be fairly legitimate and now he makes sub-Wynorski streaming fillers.

He started his career sitting on a kerb, artistically. How far could he fall?

[knives]

Surprisingly far.

[MV88]

John Hughes, in his last published interview, singled out Smith for having a “regional” flair in his films, which is probably a kinder and more accurate descriptor of his works

I would agree with that as I live in Jersey and he remains very beloved here at least among a certain demographic (primarily Gen X-ers and older millennials), although I’m not sure how much that love transfers into excitement for his new films. The Count Basie Theatre in Red Bank always screens his new movies when they’re first released with a Q&A by Kevin Smith afterwards, and they still sell out pretty quickly, but I’m 99% certain that would not be the case if Smith weren’t going to be there in person. I definitely get the sense that at this point in his career people like him as a person more than they like his movies. Nonetheless, yes, that applies even more so here in Jersey where he is something of a hometown hero to a lot of people.

[hearthesilence]

Another reason the working class moniker sits so ill with Smith's work, especially the early Jersey films, is because what it really has is that 90s slacker/stoner ethos, an arrested adolescence and dissatisfaction with the workaday world. And that's a very different thing. The people in Smith's world worry more about their own boredom and aimlessness than they do the rising cost of living or job security or any typically working-class concerns. The endless pop culture riffs are there to stave off ennui, not the crushing realities of capitalism. So you have movies about people hanging around in malls avoiding the local bully and scheming to get their girlfriends back--like teenagers. Or struggling comic book artists whose biggest struggle is their relationships. In the early movies, everyone feels very young, and their biggest problems are rarely financial (even when the characters have no money). The characters' lives never feel absent of opportunity; it's the opposite. Their problem is always that slacker disinclination to actually embrace opportunity if it comes at the cost of comfort. His characters encounter internal barriers, not social ones. Blah blah blah.

OTM. Just compare him to a far bigger Jersey institution, Bruce Springsteen, who's been on solid financial ground and then some since 1978 or 1980, but both his upbringing and his early career were tremendously impacted by working class concerns, and much of his celebrated work draws on that. Even when Springsteen deals with youth in his songs, avoiding a dead-end future and the limited opportunities of their hometown is always there.