Filmmakers on Other Filmmakers

Discuss films and filmmakers of the 20th century (and even a little of the 19th century). Threads may contain spoilers.
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Greathinker

#51 Post by Greathinker » Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:24 pm

alfons416 wrote:"I'm also tremendously fond of The Diary of a Country Priest, one of the most remarkable works ever made. My Winter Light was very much influenced by it."
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think he was speaking about Bernanos' novel and not the film.

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#52 Post by David Ehrenstein » Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:58 pm

Bergman's dissing Godard is hilarious considering how he rips-off Weekend in The Shame and La Chinoise in The Passion of Anna.

I don't have the exact quoter handy but he also declared Last Tango in Paris a fraud because Bertolucci didn't show Brando fucking a boy rather than Maria Schneider.

Oh that Ingmar!

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domino harvey
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#53 Post by domino harvey » Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:05 pm

I finally caught Bergman's the Passion of Anna a few days ago and the whole time I was thinking, "Wow, Bergman must have really liked Red Desert" and well, here we are

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#54 Post by alfons416 » Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:52 pm

Greathinker: that may be true, i've read Bergman on Bergman a while ago but i can't recall the whole discussion there. but i know he likes th movie alot to here is other words on Bresson by Bergman: http://www.mastersofcinema.org/bresson/ ... hette.html

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orlik
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#55 Post by orlik » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:34 pm

David Ehrenstein wrote:Bergman's dissing Godard is hilarious considering how he rips-off Weekend in The Shame and La Chinoise in The Passion of Anna.
It's interesting that Bunuel was also somewhat dismissive of Godard, at least originally, but then directly stole a key motif (political information drowned out by 'incidental' noise on the soundtrack) from Made in USA for The Discreet Charm... - and used it much better imo. Maybe he 'came round' to Godard at some point.

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#56 Post by David Ehrenstein » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:45 pm

Maybe he 'came round' to Godard at some point.
Undoubtedly because of Jean-Claude Carriere -- who co-scripted Godard's Passion, which stars his then-girifriend Hanna Schygulla.

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vogler
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#57 Post by vogler » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:53 pm

orlik wrote:It's interesting that Bunuel was also somewhat dismissive of Godard, at least originally, but then directly stole a key motif (political information drowned out by 'incidental' noise on the soundtrack) from Made in USA for The Discreet Charm... - and used it much better imo. Maybe he 'came round' to Godard at some point.
I've always felt that Bunuel's La Voie lactée took quite a lot of it's style from Godard's Weekend as well. Great film though.

Also there is the minutes silence idea that Bergman used in Hour of the Wolf. Didn't this first appear in Godard's Bande à part?

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Jason
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#58 Post by Jason » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:04 pm

I remember reading some of these on IMDb, along with

"Among today's directors I'm of course impressed by Steven Spielberg and Scorsese, and Coppola, even if he seems to have ceased making films, and Steven Soderbergh - they all have something to say, they're passionate, they have an idealistic attitude to the filmmaking process. Soderbergh's Traffic is amazing. Another great couple of examples of the strength of American cinema is American Beauty and Magnolia."

Also, am I the only person here who took to reading the first quotes posted in Vincent Gallo's voice, another loud-mouth jerk that I adore?

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tartarlamb
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#59 Post by tartarlamb » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:41 pm



Also there is the minutes silence idea that Bergman used in Hour of the Wolf. Didn't this first appear in Godard's Bande à part?


There are differences. Bergman actually lets the entire minute pass, and has Max Von Sydow commenting on the length of the minute throughout. Its an enormously effective scene (moreso, I think, than the similar scene in Band of Outsider, as much as I love that film.) I think one of his books comments on his insomnia at the time, which inspired the film, and the way time passes in those early morning hours.

I don't think these are examples of Bergman, or Bunuel for that matter, "ripping off" Godard, but rather instances of contemporaneous European film-makers covering the same ground as one might expect would happen.
Last edited by tartarlamb on Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vogler
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#60 Post by vogler » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:50 pm

tartarlamb wrote:I don't think these are examples of Bergman, or Bunuel for that matter, "ripping off" Godard, but rather instances of contemporaneous European film-makers covering the same ground as one might expect would happen.
No, i certainly wouldn't and didn't use the term 'ripping off'. I merely wonder if there may have been an influence with these issues. The Bunuel/Godard example is also mentioned in John Baxter's biography of Bunuel and has been noticed by a number of other people. There is nothing wrong with film makers being influenced by other film makers regardless of whether that is what happened here.

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GringoTex
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#61 Post by GringoTex » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:04 pm

Greathinker wrote:
alfons416 wrote:"I'm also tremendously fond of The Diary of a Country Priest, one of the most remarkable works ever made. My Winter Light was very much influenced by it."
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think he was speaking about Bernanos' novel and not the film.
Not sure, but in an insufferably and mutually smug interview between Bergman and John Simon, Bergman says something to the effect that aside from Mouchette, he's not a big Bresson admirer.

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tartarlamb
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#62 Post by tartarlamb » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:22 pm

vogler wrote:No, i certainly wouldn't and didn't use the term 'ripping off'. I merely wonder if there may have been an influence with these issues. The Bunuel/Godard example is also mentioned in John Baxter's biography of Bunuel and has been noticed by a number of other people. There is nothing wrong with film makers being influenced by other film makers regardless of whether that is what happened here.
No, you're right, I apologize. I didn't mean to suggest that you had. I was responding to another comment above yours that did use the term. And you're certainly right that there's nothing wrong with one film maker being influenced by another; I personally doubt that Bergman, however, was very much influenced by Godard. It seems more likely to me that they were merely working in the same intellectual climate, and their similarities reflect that rather than any interest on Bergman's part (particularly since he seems so hostile to Godard).

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vogler
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#63 Post by vogler » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:28 pm

tartarlamb wrote:I was responding to another comment above yours that did use the term.
No problem - I noticed that after I had posted.

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#64 Post by Roger_Thornhill » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:09 am

Jason wrote:I remember reading some of these on IMDb, along with

"Among today's directors I'm of course impressed by Steven Spielberg
I'm surprised Bergman had the courage to say he likes Spielberg considering how polarizing a figure he is in the cinephile world. Good for him.

I remember reading an interview with Godard (I forget where - perhaps Film Comment) where he essentially called Spielberg the epitome of Hollywood shit because of Schindler's List. Godard claimed that the real Oscar Schindler's wife didn't receive any money after Schindler's List's box office success. Then he went on to say that Americans make films about other cultures because they have no history and thus must steal others. He wouldn't even call them Americans and instead referred to them as "United Statesians." haha...gotta love Godard, he's an arrogant, elitest motherfucker; but that's just who he is and I respect his honesty even if it is repulsive at times.

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Highway 61
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#65 Post by Highway 61 » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:39 am

Roger_Thornhill wrote:I'm surprised Bergman had the courage to say he likes Spielberg considering how polarizing a figure he is in the cinephile world. Good for him.
Agreed. Hating Spielberg has become the wearing a Ramones t-shirt of the movie world.

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Jason
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#66 Post by Jason » Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:59 am

On that subject, has anyone seen the IFC interview with Terry Gilliam on the Lost in La Mancha DVD? Gilliam and the interviewer spend a good six minutes discussing how Speilberg always gets things wrong and use harsh comparisons to Stanley Kubrick and his greatness to get their rude points across.

Considering Gilliam didn't have sufficient funds to make the film the interview was about, it all sounds more like absolute jealousy than fair criticism.

Perhaps it's merely honesty, but I tend to admire a less aggressive nature in filmmakers. But who knows, maybe Speilberg called Gilliam a doo doo head at some Hollywood party. Why can't filmmakers play nice?

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Kirkinson
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#67 Post by Kirkinson » Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:26 am

Actually, Spielberg once called Gilliam a genius. I don't think Gilliam is arrogant or jealous so much as he's just "childish" sometimes -- a quality that I think serves him very well in his films (I'm a big fan) and sometimes not so well in interviews. In any case, he's demonstrated on a number of occasions that he doesn't worry about the bridges he burns, which is certainly a significant factor in his ability to raise funds.

I actually haven't watched the IFC interview in a long time. There's some back-and-forth about Spielberg in the (more interesting) interview by Salman Rushdie as well, which consists of both of them ragging on A.I. and a couple exchanges about E.T. (which Rushdie likes and Gilliam seems to feel lukewarm about).

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Alyosha
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#68 Post by Alyosha » Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:14 am

alfons416 wrote:Bergman on Tarkovsky
"When film is not a document, it is a dream. That is why Tarkovsky is the greatest of them all. He moves with such naturalness in the room of dreams. He doesn't explain. What should be explained anyhow? He is a spectator, capable of staging his visions in the most unwieldy but, in a way, the most willing of media."
In the same section in Laterna Magica, if I remember correctly (it was a few years ago that I read it), he was much more positive about Antonioni than the above quotes and said that A as well was able to move in this "room of dreams" - at least in some of his films. I don't think he explicitly mentioned "La Notte" and "Blow up". He also thought that his own "Cries & Whispers" was the one he had succeeded the most with in that manner.

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#69 Post by portnoy » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:44 pm

This reminds me of the story of Tarkovsky and Brakhage - in a hotel room in Telluride, Colorado, preparing for the tribute to Tarkovsky the Telluride FF was doing, Tarkovsky asks to see some of Brakhage's work - Brakhage puts on one of his films (Cats Cradle, maybe?) at which point Tarkovsky starts shouting angrily about how it's hurting his eyes and cursing in Russian about how "You can't do that! What is wrong with you?"

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vogler
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#70 Post by vogler » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:55 pm

The whole story as told by Brakhage can be found here. It really is hilarious. Needless to say I completely disagree with Tarkovsky but we all have different tastes.

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domino harvey
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#71 Post by domino harvey » Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:05 pm

vogler wrote:The whole story as told by Brakhage can be found here. It really is hilarious. Needless to say I completely disagree with Tarkovsky but we all have different tastes.
great link, thank you!

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miless
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#72 Post by miless » Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:05 pm

vogler wrote:The whole story as told by Brakhage can be found here. It really is hilarious. Needless to say I completely disagree with Tarkovsky but we all have different tastes.
I think that how Tarkovsky is behaving in the piece by Brakhage shows how a filmmaker, through fame and everyone calling him a genius (of which I think he is), can think that only his thoughts are valid. I agree with Tarkovsky when he's talking about film (the medium), but when he criticizes filmmakers specifically (same with Bergman), it just seems like complaining. It's like hearing: the only people who make films that I like are me and him... we're geniuses, everyone else is crap!
I like more humble directors, personally

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#73 Post by David Ehrenstein » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:37 pm

Tarkovsky was just plain rude. Brakhage was perfectly well aware that his films were outside of Tarkovsky's experience and was quite willing to accept criticism. What he got instead was the tantrum of an ill-mannered child.

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vogler
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#74 Post by vogler » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:47 pm

David Ehrenstein wrote:Tarkovsky was just plain rude.
Indeed. Bergman criticising directors in an interview is one thing but Tarkovsky's behaviour just strikes me as deeply wrong on a basic human level. He's still a genius though, but I don't suppose that means I have to like him as a person.

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#75 Post by MichaelB » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:30 pm

According to Sight & Sound in the early 1980s, Tarkovsky's itinerary on a trip to London included a screening of James Glickenhaus' The Exterminator - more because it was the major censorship cause celêbre in Britain at the time than because he had a secret liking for violent American exploitation films.

He went on to cite it in his NFT talk as an example of film not qualifying as art, so I guess it didn't hit the spot either.

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