Dressed to Kill, Silence of the Lambs, and Trans Representations

[warren oates]

Wait, what? You can't have it both ways, matrix. How come Haydon gets to be a poster boy for inauthentic bi-ness, rather than a unique individual character, but Gumb's inauthentic queerness doesn't at all play into any common stereotypes. Like, you know, the whole right wing Christian thing about sexuality and gender identity being a conscious choice?

My line of argument here has more to do with the fact that the new Tinker Tailor film is more thoughtful about all of its characters sexuality than Silence ever tried to be. And that it's a prime example of a compelling genre thriller that accomplishes much more successfully with good dramatic writing what some of you guys are wishing Silence had done with a single line of dialogue.

[matrixschmatrix]

I don't think Haydon's sexuality is inauthentic, but the idea that he has sex only in an effort to manipulate is a specific and common stereotype of bisexuals, and if the movie were going out of its way to present that idea that would be a problem. I don't think the way we're presented with the idea that Gumb believes himself to be transexual but is not reinforces any particular misconceptions.

[warren oates]

Well, about Tinker Tailor:

SpoilerShow

The key with Haydon is that nothing he's seen doing with his sexuality comes out of love. And the only hints of a love he might have had are his strong feelings for Jim, whom he betrays. So while he is seen to be using sex to manipulate, what's even worse is that it's devoid of love and that the only love he's shown to have -- which is either deep platonic friendship with Jim or something that's also more romantic -- is totally betrayed, and rather coldly at that. In contrast, the good guys are left broken-hearted by their love problems: We see Guillam devastated, however briefly, by having to break up his relationship, Smiley driven by devotion to his wife in spite of what he knows she's done to him and Prideaux bereft at the ultimate betrayal of what's at the very least, for him, a deeply loving friendship.

[matrixschmatrix]

I should be clear that in the movie, at least, I don't think it's a problematic portrayal- it's possible that it comes out of one with elements of that in the book, but there's a limit to how progressive you can expect someone's thinking to have been in the 60's. My point is more that it is at least possible to find apparently problematic elements in a movie that generally makes an attempt to be sensitive, and that (to me at least) the presence of Guillam doesn't really affect those elements one way or the other.

[yrazor]

Disregarding the discussion in between I want to state that I am transsexual and I love 'Dressed to Kill'. It's a magnificent thriller in my opinion and it's not everything about political correctness nowadays (as well as back then). Otherwise there would be a whole lot of boring but correct films. But I want films that keep me on the hook - 'Dressed to Kill' did that for me.

I didn't feel myself being mistreated by that film - on the contrary - i love it for what it is.

There are films with this killer or that killer, in that case the killer is a 'transsexual' or 'transvestite' (don't want to go into detail about that), why not? A mad one - why not? I enjoyed it a lot. To be precise, I really love that movie.

[Cold Bishop]

Also, if we want to play the whole "Gumb isn't a real transsexual" card, couldn't you argue that Dressed to Kill does the exact same, what with the psychiatrist who we discover has steadfastly refused to sign off on the operation precisely because the character (is his identity really a spoiler for people reading this thread?) isn't psychologically sound in his decision.

[Mr Sausage]

If I'm not misremembering, wasn't a large part of that the male side of the character's personality resisting the operation?

As was mentioned earlier, I don't get the feeling that Dressed to Kill offers any coherent understanding of the transgendered nor is particularly interested in doing so.

[R0lf]

Is the transexual in Dressed to Kill more offenise than the immigrants in Scarface because there is no actual link between transexuals and mental health?

Shouldn't it be less offenise because it's pure fantasy?

Or is it more offensive because people's understanding of immigrants is better than their understanding of transexuals?