Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

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Matt
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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#51 Post by Matt » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:35 pm

Mike Nelson is interviewed at Boing Boing: "The reason to revisit Manos is because it’s been 19 years, and there was some chatter on the web about a guy who found a pristine copy, and he’s in the middle of restoring it right now, I believe. We were in touch with the guy, and we were going to try to get it for this showing, but it just wasn’t done. But we were able to find, on our own, a theatrical print that’s very nice. It’s better than anything that’s out there, so it’ll be nice."

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#52 Post by Minkin » Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:22 pm

No, I don't know whats going on with the restoration, or how soon it will be done (though supposedly this Spring), but

I noticed on the restoration website, they have made the Manos soundtrack available! You can also download it as well (at a name-your-price sort of thing, but your price can be free). I was always partial to the opening and closing songs. Now you too can cruise down the b-roads with your jazz flute. And since you're all going to be searching for it right away, I'll save you the trouble: track #9 is the Torgo theme.

Also, in case nobody played it, I'd recommend the Manos video game (also name your price, a minimum of $1, but worth at least $50 in the effort they put in to the game). The PC version is apparently superior (password code, ability to save, plus PC games are always easier to control). Here's the trailer for the game to remove all doubts you might otherwise have. Its also available for iPhone, iPad or Android.

In other news, apparently the Master wears TEVAS. or at least jeans under that robe.

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#53 Post by PfR73 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:38 pm

http://planettom.home.mindspring.com/test/torgo.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When I was in middle school in the mid-90's, we got our first Windows computer and the Internet. I installed this screensaver on the computer and didn't tell my parents. It came on in the middle of the night & the music freaked my mother out as she lay in bed.

I remember the next morning: "What did you put on the computer?" "Mom, it's just Torgo!"

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#54 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:33 pm

The Blu-ray release of the restoration has been delayed vaguely AGAIN, now the Kickstarter guy is saying Fall 2013. Sure feels good to give $50 to a Kickstarter with the promise of an August 2012 release, and have it be a year later without any firm evidence that what you paid for is actually on its way beyond the word of someone who keeps waffling. My apologies to anyone I encouraged to donate to this project.

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#55 Post by Matt » Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:37 pm

I didn't donate to this Kickstarter, but I did to another in December 2011 that promised delivery of a DVD in September 2012. Still waiting. There oughtta be a law...

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#56 Post by AlexHansen » Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:44 pm

This makes me feel better about my Digital Bolex only being a year behind schedule (and that the team behind it has been so open about the process and why it's taken longer than expected).

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#57 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:47 pm

There have been 12 TOTAL updates to this Kickstarter since it began in December 2011, and most of them have been to promote screenings of the film, puppet shows people are putting on, etc. The guy running it has been angrily responding to people who are upset about the delays and lack of transparency. It's a shame, I was really enthused about this - I mean, this fucking thing made 5 times what was asked for. If anything, the release should have been early, or a 4K digital restoration should have been done rather than the 2K... something. Insult to injury, the release will be released to the general public right around the same time, so I essentially donated $50 in order to get something that'll cost everyone else $15 or $20. Felt good to donate at first, now I just feel like I got ripped off.

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#58 Post by Grand Wazoo » Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:51 pm

Manos: The Restoration Facebook Page wrote:The Master Would Approve! We are pleased to announce that a licensing agreement has been signed with Synapse Films to distribute a Special Edition of Manos: The Hands of Fate on DVD, Blu-Ray, and VOD. More info soon!

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#59 Post by domino harvey » Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:53 pm

Lol @ grassroots supporters

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#60 Post by jsteffe » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:14 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:There have been 12 TOTAL updates to this Kickstarter since it began in December 2011, and most of them have been to promote screenings of the film, puppet shows people are putting on, etc. The guy running it has been angrily responding to people who are upset about the delays and lack of transparency. It's a shame, I was really enthused about this - I mean, this fucking thing made 5 times what was asked for. If anything, the release should have been early, or a 4K digital restoration should have been done rather than the 2K... something. Insult to injury, the release will be released to the general public right around the same time, so I essentially donated $50 in order to get something that'll cost everyone else $15 or $20. Felt good to donate at first, now I just feel like I got ripped off.
Yes--the lack of transparency is galling, but even an honest and apologetic explanation of the situation behind the delays might have helped. On the positive side, he is making a 35mm preservation master with the extra funds raised.

Since the film was shot in 16mm and not 35mm, perhaps a 4k scan would have been overkill?

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#61 Post by jindianajonz » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:59 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:There have been 12 TOTAL updates to this Kickstarter since it began in December 2011, and most of them have been to promote screenings of the film, puppet shows people are putting on, etc. The guy running it has been angrily responding to people who are upset about the delays and lack of transparency. It's a shame, I was really enthused about this - I mean, this fucking thing made 5 times what was asked for. If anything, the release should have been early, or a 4K digital restoration should have been done rather than the 2K... something. Insult to injury, the release will be released to the general public right around the same time, so I essentially donated $50 in order to get something that'll cost everyone else $15 or $20. Felt good to donate at first, now I just feel like I got ripped off.
You also get a pin and a t-shirt!

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#62 Post by MichaelB » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:09 pm

jsteffe wrote:Since the film was shot in 16mm and not 35mm, perhaps a 4k scan would have been overkill?
Total overkill, I'd say. In my experience, a 2K scan should comfortably resolve everything from a 16mm source.

On the other hand, I applaud the decision to buy a 35mm preservation master - now that really is sensible and constructive thinking.

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#63 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:31 pm

Still no release date. If it comes out by Christmas, then it'll only be two fucking years since we all donated, and as of this month the release is one year late and counting.

Not really familiar with Synapse Films, as I'm not really much of a cult film collector, but thank goodness that this is finally going to see the light of day, even if it turned out to be underhanded from square one.

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#64 Post by swo17 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:20 pm

Synapse mostly releases things that don't interest me, but the ones that do that I've seen have all been very high quality.

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#65 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:46 am

I finally filed a claim with Kickstarter - enough is enough. The film is going to be screening in Helsinki, Finland before we receive our Blu-rays and DVDs - that's just a bridge too far for me. Ben (the guy who started this Kickstarter) is touring the film around the world, and has forgotten the reason why people donated to this project in the first place. I spoke with Synapse and they said that the ink is essentially still wet on the deal and they have no word on when a release will be happening, even though the last [extremely vague] update from this guy was that it'd be out in the fall, after several other updates saying winter, spring, etc. The original arrival date was said to be August 2012, which came and went with no word on why the delay happened, and his eventual explanation of the delay was so dishonest that it's laughable - that rights issues on this public domain film were holding it up, while he was busy showing up at every Manos-themed screening and puppet show on the planet. I live nearby the Colonial Theatre (yeah, the one from The Blob), and reached out to suggest it might be a good location for a screening because they show MST3K episodes, often with visits by Joel Hodgson, and it's got a great reputation for un-MSTed revival screenings, and got the most achingly hipster response about how he feels that MST3K has been a detriment to the film and doesn't want to be associated with it. Of course, he saw the film before MST3K ever showed it - of course he did. He also heard about Arcade Fire before anyone else, too, I'm sure.

Done with this guy, done with this Kickstarter, done with it. I hate to see this happen to one of my favorite, misguided, lovable films. I have had a love affair with this movie since the mid-90s, for most of my childhood and adult life, and to see it being taken advantage of by an opportunist like this is nauseating to me. I am so sorry to anyone here that I encouraged to donate to this project, I wish I could pay you back myself.

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#66 Post by HerrSchreck » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:08 pm

Crap like that is why we generally cannot Have Nice Things.

That's pretty fucking unsightly, and it sounds like those assholes at Kickstarter are playing with fire.

Way to fuck up all future, well-intentioned and honest fundraisers, assholes.

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#67 Post by Matt » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:38 pm

I didn't even know you could file a claim on Kickstarter. I thought you were just S.O.L. if you never got your premiums.

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#68 Post by cdnchris » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:12 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:He also heard about Arcade Fire before anyone else, too, I'm sure.
Well, if he's Canadian maybe...

Almost donated on this but never actually did, thankfully.

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#69 Post by MichaelB » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:22 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:Crap like that is why we generally cannot Have Nice Things.

That's pretty fucking unsightly, and it sounds like those assholes at Kickstarter are playing with fire.
How would this be Kickstarter's fault? It sounds to me that it's entirely "this Ben guy" who's to blame.

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#70 Post by HerrSchreck » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:59 pm

Why? Because they facilitated what essentially was false advertising with no apparent requirement on their behalf for "Ben" to keep the process transparent and keep the consumer informed. They took the consumer's money, passed it over to Ben, and have no further comment or apparent interest in the process afterwards that what was promised in return was actually facilitated. I think that's very uncool.

Many were donating not out of selfless benevolence, but because they thought that they were buying a DVD/BD for themselves. They love the film and have been dying for something like what was promised on home vid. Years later, nothing.

In a convoluted sense this transaction is like any online etailer. As Amazon or half or ebay needs to insure that they are not facilitating consumers giving money to shady individuals, I think that Kickstarter should have an interest in insuring that promises made during a fundraiser are kept. If PBS held their annual fundraiser and premiums were promised for hitting certain financial benchmarks of giving, and those premiums were not delivered after YEARS, I think folks would be pissed at PBS. There is an undeniable element of hard and fast e-commerce here. And Kickstarter seems completely disinterested in the fact that the promised DVD product is languishing while Ben hangs around doing premieres and getting attention. I think they owe more to the donors.

If I gave and have been sitting for years waiting for what was promised to me on the Kickstarter site, I certainly would hesitate to trust the claims on any other fundraiser that interested me in the future.

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#71 Post by MichaelB » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:29 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:And Kickstarter seems completely disinterested in the fact that the promised DVD product is languishing while Ben hangs around doing premieres and getting attention. I think they owe more to the donors.
Has Kickstarter actually been ignoring complaints? I've just Googled "Manos Kickstarter restoration", limiting results to those less than a year old, and I'm not getting a sense of widespread outrage over this. True, this very page that I'm typing on now comes up pretty quickly, but precious little else.

So when did people start complaining? And how many complained?

(I'm not remotely defending anything that Ben Solovey has or hasn't done, by the way, and it's obviously in Kickstarter's long-term interest that this is sorted out - but you seem to be painting them as the villains of the piece, and I'm really not seeing how they deserve this.)

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#72 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:52 pm

I'm not indicting Kickstarter in this in the slightest, which is why I'm going through them to try to obtain a refund - otherwise I'd just call Visa and leave Kickstarter in the dust by disputing my charge. Kickstarter held up their end of the bargain - they made no promises to anyone, the person running the campaign did. People are trying to be as polite as possible about this, but what breaks my heart is that when people do comment asking why we haven't gotten updates on the Blu-ray release, Ben [and I'm not typing his last name because of a) Google Alerts and b) because I can't remember how it's spelled and don't feel like pulling it back up] typically doesn't respond. He's made 14 'Updates' to the project, which are few and far between and are usually promoting live screenings or projects that have nothing to do with the Blu-ray release. The one that eventually tried to explain why there are delays was disingenuous and ridiculous. So while most folks aren't as indignant as I am (or just haven't spoken up about it), I'm certainly not the only one who's noticed how horribly the restoration of this film has been handled.

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#73 Post by HerrSchreck » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:25 pm

They don't deserve for an individual to have an opinion about their public process? It's my opinion-- you don't have to agree if you think they have no responsibility. But what is it precisely that they don't deserve-- For an observer to have an opinion for a process that left a once-excited consumer feeling stiffed and frustrated? To me it's like Amazon ignoring an etailer not following through on transactions made on Amazon. If host sites didn't vet their content, hucksters would run amok on the web beyond what already goes on.

If those who use the internet as their medium cannot survive opinions that aren't positive when they facilitate unfulfilled orders, they're probably in the wrong business.

As for how many people complained, I frankly have no idea whatsoever. I don't have enough interest in the film. But I'm sure mfunk isn't the only one "filing claims with Kickstarter," and "Done with Kickstarter, done with it."

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#74 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:26 pm

I said I was done with this Kickstarter, just to clarify. I will have no problem donating to another in the future, just not one by this particular individual.

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Re: Manos: The Hands of Fate (Harold P. Warren, 1966)

#75 Post by HerrSchreck » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:32 pm

Matt wrote:I didn't donate to this Kickstarter, but I did to another in December 2011 that promised delivery of a DVD in September 2012. Still waiting. There oughtta be a law...
Keep donating, funklet.

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