Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

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Dentists
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:19 pm

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#26 Post by Dentists » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:11 pm

Warner Bros told me why STOP is in limbo:
"The reason we cannot release the film is that we have no documentation regarding the music in the film as to what it is, who are the artists performing, were publishing licenses acquired or not, etc.
This is mostly in relationship to street music heard in the distant background of the film during interior scenes.
Unfortunately, company files that would normally cover such information are nowhere to be found."

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whaleallright
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 12:56 am

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#27 Post by whaleallright » Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:07 pm

A smaller company might go ahead and release it anyway, with a promise to keep royalties for the musicians in escrow (similar things have been done before with both films and records) but the Time Warner lawyers are likely inclined to be overcautious.
Last edited by whaleallright on Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dylan
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:28 pm

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#28 Post by Dylan » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:25 pm

Dentists wrote:Warner Bros told me why STOP is in limbo:
"The reason we cannot release the film is that we have no documentation regarding the music in the film as to what it is, who are the artists performing, were publishing licenses acquired or not, etc. This is mostly in relationship to street music heard in the distant background of the film during interior scenes. Unfortunately, company files that would normally cover such information are nowhere to be found."
Interesting that they've revealed what sort of documentation is missing. If it's mostly an issue with unknown diegetic "street music," my first thought is that the restoration team can replace the music with something suitable from the period that they can properly license (WB probably already own a wealth of library music from the 1960s and 1970s that might fit the scenes). But I have to imagine this option has already been discussed at WB and that for whatever reason this approach is impossible to achieve with the audio they have to work with, or they're holding out on a potential release with an altered soundtrack because they haven't exhausted their resources yet in regards to locating the missing documentation.

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Dentists
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:19 pm

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#29 Post by Dentists » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:44 pm

Well I told WB that the score was done by Fred Myrow and that I could put them in contact with Mr. Myrow’s family/daughter (he passed away in 1999) but they said it wasn’t the score- but more specifically related to just random groups/bands heard in the background.

They had a meeting where a group of suits sat in and watched the film to determine if they could name the groups but no one could.

WB said they WANT to release ‘STOP!’ and was asking for any help fans could get.

The family of Fred Myrow told me to contact/visit the USC Music library in Los Angeles- I’m unfamiliar with this and not sure where to begin.

The film is over 48 years old so who knows where/if paper work exists.

WB said the print they have is in great condition and can be remastered so they’re just at a standstill with the copyright.

I’m not sure if people can reach out to Ry Cooder (Paris, Texas) who played on the score to ‘STOP!’ to see if he remembers???

kubelkind
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:42 pm

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#30 Post by kubelkind » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:33 am

Did anyone think of playing the unidentifiable music into Shazam?

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Dentists
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:19 pm

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#31 Post by Dentists » Fri May 25, 2018 9:04 pm

Hmm Shazam may not help...
I’ve seen the film and I just don’t see how it’s possible or why it’s even a big deal to find the Music stuff...
It’s a great film - weird & beautiful.
I’m not so sure there’s a huge market for it - maybe that’s the true issue?

kubelkind
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:42 pm

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#32 Post by kubelkind » Sat May 26, 2018 10:32 am

Well, I'd really like to see it of course and I'm sure there'll be others. Lost work by an important and neglected African-American film-maker, an influence on Spike Lee, Ganja & Hess seems pretty popular etc. Maybe not a HUGE market, but enough to make a DVD release worthwhile surely.
Some theories as to the reasons for the film's continued unavailabilty have cropped up on Letterboxd recently, could be some truth in it, who knows - https://letterboxd.com/beamish13/film/stop-1970/

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Dentists
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:19 pm

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#33 Post by Dentists » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:20 pm

I have a very long & extremely polite, courteous email from the VP of WB that I may share someday here regarding the release of Stop.
It’s a difficult subject though...there are several cuts, people/crew upset with certain people even after 48 years, and maybe even appropriated/hijacked “stuff” use your imagination.
I hope it will someday be released because it is fantastic.

kubelkind
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:42 pm

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#34 Post by kubelkind » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:09 am

Looks like Personal Problems just got a blu ray release, look forward to this https://www.kinolorber.com/product/pers ... ms-blu-ray

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dadaistnun
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:31 am

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#35 Post by dadaistnun » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:30 pm

Sam Waymon is encouraging people to contact Warner Archive about releasing Stop.

beamish14
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 3:07 pm

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#36 Post by beamish14 » Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:37 am

This film is currently spreading through backchannels faster than COVID-19. I'm really excited to see what some of you have to say about it.

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therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#37 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:52 pm

I absolutely loved this, but it’s hard to articulate why Gunn’s raw surrealism that didn’t quite click for me in Ganja and Hess’s exploration of identity worked perfectly here. There is recollection of Pinter in how menacing a seemingly simple and unoriginal topic can become. Right from the first exchange between the couple the dialogue is unsettling, strange, and profound, and as the film progresses there is an unnerving dissolve of expectations in escapist play that externally disintegrates walls but doesn’t soothe either party.

There is a very harsh and candid attitude to exploring bitter truths here to an incredibly uncomfortable degree, transforming an established study of relationship dynamics into an intoxicating existential surrender and finally a psychological thriller. That philosophical middle is the best part, especially the wife’s speech about how she’s penetrable and he’s not, laying her love down hopelessly and courageously. Few films have tackled heteronormative gender roles as deeply and uniquely as here, especially their complex experiences in a romantic relationship, even if this dissection occurs almost entirely in an abstract space- this only helps in twisting the perplexing schema to a place where personal experience is not only free but forced to emerge.

That duality between freedom and force, or constraint, is emphasized throughout this film. Sex and aggressive destruction aren’t treated differently than flirtation, laughter, or suicidal ideation other than the branding they produce: all are coping mechanisms to deal with the unattainable skills to satisfy relationship challenges and regulate the feelings that had on oneself. This film constantly moves between a sensation of being trapped or being free - but each of those sensations becomes blended into the other. In situations where they are trapped in an uncomfortable argument they are freely communicating and engaging in expected, comfortable methods for intervening in their problems; while in situations where they are free swinging, getting high, laughing and divorcing themselves from their roles and one another, there is a seething terror in how ungrounded and isolating this is, smashing the myth of ‘free love’ activities like a bad trip, though like hallucinations this morphs into a cyclical flow between the positive and negative energies that also both intensifies and dulls while the same thoughts, emotions, and problems in the relationship persist.

The irony would be funny if Gunn was interested in treating this as a satire but it’s more of an unveiling of the horrors of being imprisoned in our own bodies and socially constructed binds to abstract concepts like love and attraction, without any effective tools to dig our way out- be them tangible physical strategies like drugs and sex, or something as integral as communication. It’s the apotheosis of disorienting cinema but one that paradoxically drew me in to a cathartic ‘a-ha’ moment of relatability to the challenging enigma of navigating the process of existential constructivism in a social world, to the point where every other expression of this indescribable experience seems shallow ok reaching the depths of insanity Gunn does here.

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whaleallright
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 12:56 am

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#38 Post by whaleallright » Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:36 pm

I wonder where the copy came from. Did a Warners archive employee go rogue? Was someone in possession of an ancient VHS transfer and finally dug it up and copied it to digital? (The latter seems most likely, given the quality.) Looking forward to watching this; maybe I'll revisit The Landlord as well now that it's on Blu-Ray.

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dadaistnun
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:31 am

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#39 Post by dadaistnun » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:35 pm

Really dug this; I thought I'd never see it. I can't really say anything therewillbeblus didn't say much more eloquently above.

Despite the overall style hewing to the disjointed, sort of impressionistic feeling he later used for Ganja & Hess, I love the more naturalistic way Gunn shoots the argument between Lee and Michael early in the film in one take from a high angle. It give it a more uncomfortable and voyeuristic feeling, fueled by booze and dope and fatigue and displacement of being away from home. I though Linda Marsh was quite good in this.

beamish14
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 3:07 pm

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#40 Post by beamish14 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:00 pm

whaleallright wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:36 pm
I wonder where the copy came from. Did a Warners archive employee go rogue? Was someone in possession of an ancient VHS transfer and finally dug it up and copied it to digital? (The latter seems most likely, given the quality.) Looking forward to watching this; maybe I'll revisit The Landlord as well now that it's on Blu-Ray.
I'm guessing one of the film's actors shared it with a few others, including maybe Gunn's biographer. A friend of his biographer gave it to me through Letterboxd a few years ago with the stipulation that I not share it, which I did not. It's possible the same source has just given up hope of the studio ever releasing it and threw it into the ether.

Ferocious Detritus
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:30 pm

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#41 Post by Ferocious Detritus » Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:12 pm

I find it dubious that the reason this hasn't been released is the inability to identify some background music and secure its clearance from the performers.

Someone up-thread mentioned a meeting of "suits" gathered to identify the music... well, there's your problem. Unless the title "suits" was used casually, why would any businessman have the slightest clue who made the music? Aren't there musical directors in Hollywood, whose job is to identify or find music?

Better yet, I guarantee if you posted a clip of the music on a well-read forum hosted by music professionals (Steve Albini's Electrical Audio forum, Steve Hoffman's forums, etc.) the pieces would be identified within 24hrs... the one catch being, is the music a regional act? In which case it might be more difficult.

I haven't seen the film... is this music Gunn deliberately inserted or was it ambient music accidentally captured on the soundtrack?

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Dylan
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:28 pm

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#42 Post by Dylan » Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:27 pm

beamish14 wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:00 pm
I'm guessing one of the film's actors shared it with a few others, including maybe Gunn's biographer. A friend of his biographer gave it to me through Letterboxd a few years ago with the stipulation that I not share it, which I did not. It's possible the same source has just given up hope of the studio ever releasing it and threw it into the ether.
Stop! was shared with me as well, presumably by this same person (and under the same conditions). I agree that it's possible Stop! was leaked by this person or somebody else close to the situation, and if so I would guess it's because the possibility of an official release has only grown more dire. And that is very unfortunate, because this is indeed an excellent and fascinating film. I've only watched it once but I found it to be a very intense and overwhelming experience, with a truly magnificent performance by Linda Marsh. The visual quality of its current state isn't ideal, but it's perfectly watchable and I was still able to appreciate Owen Roizman's cinematography. Though hope springs eternal that Stop! will receive an official release in the future, the fact that it leaked speaks to a very real possibility that this is all we'll ever get, so I would absolutely recommend people seek it out if they're curious.

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therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#43 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:57 pm

Although I really hope we get a quality release someday there’s something about the staticky video rip that produces an alien haze fitting for the film. I’ll preorder in a heartbeat if a physical release materializes, but I’m glad I saw it first through a warped perspective of heightened psychedelia that via inebriated chaos in style and content sobers you up to the brutal truth of relationship dynamics.

I’ll add to the praise for Linda Marsh who stole the movie for me, and is a perfect complement to Gunn’s style. It’s not easy to play a woman who has the skills and willingness to advocate for her identity to be validated while helplessly suffering from that same identity being torn from her by the vacuum of her milieu, but she nails the conflicting components of surrender in emanating both resilience and despair in every breath.

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senseabove
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:07 am

Re: Stop (Bill Gunn, 1970)

#44 Post by senseabove » Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:23 pm

I was expecting more Personal Problems than Ganja & Hess but this is one helluva balance of the two. Watching Stranger by the Lake again last night and this today was a kind of beautiful confluence of sub/counter-culture gone haywire reflecting a fundamental terror of corporeality back at polite society.

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