Suicide Squad / Birds of Prey Films (Ayer/Yan/Gunn, 2016-2021)

[captveg]

A Warner Bros. source tells the Hollywood Reporter about behind-the-scenes drama, including the studio bringing in a trailer-editing company to handle final cut.

It's disconcerting, but it also doesn't quite match up with what is often being criticized in the reviews: the final act of the story being run-of-the-mill, or the portrayal of some characters (particularly the villains). That's a writing issue, which falls on Ayer. And I can understand if he agreed to go into a production faster than he wanted so he could also direct it, but he also has been really confident in the story he created in all his appearances for two years now, so I have a hard time feeling his story was all that compromised.

That being said, where I'm concerned about the report of multiple cuts being pieced together for the final cut is in the way the tone comes across. The Queen trailer positive response and the negative reception to BvS's more calculated attempts at serious drama could have caused them to overcorrect to be sure to deliver on the "kewl" factor, and if that doesn't sustain after the first half and fails to transition smoothly into what Ayer had initially presented/shot I can certainly see that being off-putting. Or it could be "fun" for general audiences, and the faults will be overlooked by a good portion of the paying public.

[Luke M]

The studio wants $750-$800 million? Wowsa. I can't see that happening.

[captveg]

$750-800m is the ceiling for this film. If the $175m budget is accurate it'll be profitable around the $450m WW mark. I'm guessing it pulls in $550-650m WW, maybe a bit higher if audiences take to it.

If all films that are $175m in budget need $750m to be profitable then every live action tentpole film this summer after Civil War has sunk their respective studios deep into the red.

[tenia]

I went and saw by myself this, hum, thing.

It's certainly not the industrial disaster described by many critics, it's just DC trying to do things like Marvel Studios are doing and ending up with the same crappy movies Marvel Studios are doing.

It's a lot of wrong ideas, mis-casting, bad actors and an awful script with an awful pace, everything blended together in a very bad style. Most of the action sequences are un-decipherable, all shot in non-descript places with non-descript randomly spawning unknown ennemies just like what you can find in London has fallen (and yes, it looks as bad as in London). The first action sequence is litterally against ennemies the movie hasn't yet explain where they're coming from or what they are. They're just endlessly spawning, until the movie gives Deadshot / Will Smith an iconic shot in slow-motion and decides it's time to go to the next sequence.

The overall plot is so pointless it's actually repeating the same rescue mission halfway through because why not, I guess. Leto's Joker is just plain bad, some kind of lame lisping Thug Life gangster bling-bling topless under his long overcoat. I'm actually glad he's only on-screen for 10 min but the movie can't even handle that, throwing him from nowhere and then making him disappear from the movie for 40 min. While he's coming fully-formed, the movie leaves him as a blank page, totally transparent as to what he's doing as a, you know, super-villain and main arch-nemesis from the DC Universe.

Most of the characters are shoe-horned in the movie anyway. Suicide Squad has a bit less than 10 characters to develop but doesn't want to spend the time introducing them all. In making it so, it only makes the viewer feel in a very obvious way that the movie can't handle so many characters. So you only get some being introduced, but not the others. You get a small vignette for Killer Croc but Katana appears litterally from nowhere and only gets 2 lines later about her back-story. About this : each of the flash-backs seem dropped in the most improbable times, as if the writers randomly threw darts to decide when to place them in the edit. Worse even are the dialogues, making Suicide Squad one of these rare movies that isn't more appreciable than when no character is speaking. Harley Quinn is probably the worst on this matter, but Deadshot isn't much better, with half of his lines falling flat or missing the beat. It certainly doesn't help when Jai Courtney seems to be among the best of the bunch on-screen with his acting. His character is pointless, maybe that helps, but Smith, Delevingne, Waller, Leto and Kinnaman are all noticeably bad to the point I was sometimes wondering what the casting team was thinking when getting them in such a high financial risk movie.

Visually, it's a clear step backwards from MoS and even BvS. It's, again, full of rather non-descriptive places, with a dull photo and an incredibly bloated scenery. Basically, every place shown on screen is improbably clogged with effects, tracing bullets, sparks, objects, up to being totally unreadable. Waller's helicopter ride notably (and Quinn's following one) is particularly laughable in this respect. The finale also takes place in what can't be the best idea a writer's room could think of for such a tent pole : a very foggy room where you then can't see sh*t of what's happening on screen. There were movies so dark you couldn't see what was happenning. Suicide Squad's finale has a finale so foogy you can't see the action either. Flabbergasting. Matt Singer is dead right on that one.


In the end, the worst thing is probably how the movie is simply throwing away the whole basic idea behind Suicide Squad : a movie about super-villains. At the end of the movie, they are basicalyly supers with great hearts, willing to sacrifice themselves to save the world even when they're free. Turning Deadshot into a nice daddy trying to do what's best for his daughter so she doesn't go with her crazy (probably junkie) momma isn't what people are probably expecting from Suicide Squad. In the end, they just get a bunch of supers doing jokles vaguely cruder than Superman or Spider Man.


3.5/10


Oh, there is one thing to save : a beautiful shot of Leto and Robbie kissing in an acid tank.

[captveg]

It's certainly not the industrial disaster described by many critics, it's just DC trying to do things like Marvel Studios are doing and ending up with the same crappy movies Marvel Studios are doing.

Wait... So why are you seeing these movies then? And I mean all the Marvel and DC films. Obviously you don't care for them, so why even take the time to watch them?

[domino harvey]

Anyone is allowed to watch anything they want, that is not a valid defense against criticism

[captveg]

Anyone is allowed to watch anything they want, that is not a valid defense against criticism

I'm not questioning his criticism. I'm wondering why one would want to spend their time on a genre of films they obviously don't care for. Sincerely.

For example, I don't like torture horror films. Therefore I don't go see torture horror films.

If someone doesn't like Star Trek movies or tv shows I wouldn't expect them to go see Star Trek Beyond. Isn't that time better spent seeing things you'll have a better chance of liking?

[knives]

He didn't criticize the whole genre, just a mode within it. Also it isn't like he went to the latest Thor and said it was too Marvel like, but rather going to Suicide Squad which should come with different expectations and complaining it was too Marvel like. For example I'll be seeing there as an Ayer fan and would hate for it to be like a Marvel movie.

[Ribs]

I do think it's really telling that Batman vs Superman prided itself on no silly unnecessary setting-the-table post-credits sequence only for this film to do it with one pretty clearly not filmed until the recent re shoots. They just want to be Marvel as much as they try to make it seem like they're going out of their way to do otherwise.

[captveg]

He didn't criticize the whole genre, just a mode within it. Also it isn't like he went to the latest Thor and said it was too Marvel like, but rather going to Suicide Squad which should come with different expectations and complaining it was too Marvel like. For example I'll be seeing there as an Ayer fan and would hate for it to be like a Marvel movie.

He said the "the same crappy movies as Marvel". My conclusion is that he sees the Marvel movies as similarly crappy. Therefore I asked the question.

Seeing it because of Ayer is a fair point. If that's the case that's fine. But this is why I asked the question - because I didn't read anything that indicated a reason like this one.

Sorry for being curious about someone's motivation for seeing a film who considers the recent popular similar films to also be "crappy".

[captveg]

I do think it's really telling that Batman vs Superman prided itself on no silly unnecessary setting-the-table post-credits sequence only for this film to do it with one pretty clearly not filmed until the recent re shoots. They just want to be Marvel as much as they try to make it seem like they're going out of their way to do otherwise.

I was disappointed to hear that they have a post-credit scene. Reeks of lack of confidence in their own brand. This has me the most concerned for Wonder Woman and Justice League (though I liked the Comic Con footage, especially the former).

[knives]

He didn't criticize the whole genre, just a mode within it. Also it isn't like he went to the latest Thor and said it was too Marvel like, but rather going to Suicide Squad which should come with different expectations and complaining it was too Marvel like. For example I'll be seeing there as an Ayer fan and would hate for it to be like a Marvel movie.

He said the "the same crappy movies as Marvel". My conclusion is that he sees the Marvel movies as similarly crappy. Therefore I asked the question.

Seeing it because of Ayer is a fair point. If that's the case that's fine. But this is why I asked the question - because I didn't read anything that indicated a reason like this one.

Sorry for being curious about someone's motivation for seeing a film who considers the recent popular similar films to also be "crappy".

Well you have to see some Marvel movies to determine if they are crappy which just leads back to me comment. There's no reason to assume Suicide Squad will be similar to a Marvel film for the same reason you don't expect Cafe Society to be similar to The Intern.

[tenia]

I'm usually watching these at home on BD, allowing me to fast forward the most boring parts.

However, some projects seem more intriguing than others, and I feel some might positively surprise me, hence my watching them. Iron Man was rather good, but since, only Ant Man and Guardians of the Galaxy were rather entertaining though far from being masterpieces. So you never know. I also happen to like Man of Steel (I'd rate it 7/10) and didn't particularly dislike BvS in its UE cut though it certainly drags a lot, especially the pointless Lois investigation (2 hours later, guess what : Lex is the bad guy !) (I haven't seen the TC at all so can't compare). So again, I'm curious and you never know. I'm usually very open about testing movies with the motto that I don't want to let a good one slip, so here you go.

However, I'm getting indeed to a point where they entertain me less and less, and even the most intriguing ones turn out to be flat-out disappointments. Thus, for instance, I haven't watch Civil War because after Age of Ultron, I doubt Civil War might be a good surprise for me. Doctor Strange, on the other end, looks intriguing and I will probably catch it on video at home.

As for Suicide Squad, the bad reviews I read actually made me curious about how much of a school case for failure it could be. I disagree with some remarks I've read (for instance the titles cutting Waller's introduction seems silly, but it isn't such an issue either), but it certainly fails to be entertaining.

I also happen to write technical reviews for the movies I watch on BD, and from time to time artistic reviews and since the website I'm writing on is among the few to have posted a very positive review (5 out of 6 stars), I felt I could judge the movie by myself and maybe offer a counter-point or, if the movie happened to be a good surprise, support this lone review.

Retrospectively however, it's true that I don't hold in high esteem a lot of the post-00s Marvel movies (as written above).

So here's your answer.

He didn't criticize the whole genre, just a mode within it. Also it isn't like he went to the latest Thor and said it was too Marvel like, but rather going to Suicide Squad which should come with different expectations and complaining it was too Marvel like. For example I'll be seeing there as an Ayer fan and would hate for it to be like a Marvel movie.

I've recently read waaayyyy too many people saying "DC is badly trying to copy Marvel" while there actually isn't a lot of good things to copy in Marvel movies.
I also indeed thought Suicide Squad might be a different movie than most super ones because the material and the characters are simply different than most.
And it happens that I quite like End of Watch (but found Fury quite meh).

with one pretty clearly not filmed until the recent re shoots.

This might explain why it isn't very consistent with the events in BvS while Suicide Squad is explicitly situated after BvS.

SpoilerShow

Shouldn't Bruce Wayne already have the info about Aquaman, Flash and cie with the files stolen at Lexcorp by Diana ? Otherwise, what additional information could Waller's file give him ?The only thing it places in an interesting way is a possible confrontation between the JLA and the Suicide Squad, bringing the JLA against a government officer (who also happens to know Wayne is Batman).

[tenia]

There's no reason to assume Suicide Squad will be similar to a Marvel film for the same reason you don't expect Cafe Society to be similar to The Intern.

Watching a lot of Woody Allen movies, I think it would be closer to go and see Cafe Society despite not liking many of his recent movies and having been disappointed by Blue Jasmine. But Match Point was very good, and Midnight in Paris and Magic in the Moonlight were OK, so why not, who knows ?

He said the "the same crappy movies as Marvel". My conclusion is that he sees the Marvel movies as similarly crappy. Therefore I asked the question.

I typed about the MCU movies for an upcoming article I'll publish for the website I'm writing on and yeah, the overall average is around 5/10 which is not particularly good, with some / many going as low as 2/10. But it goes up to 7.5, so it's all a question of gamble, curiosity and opportunity / free time. On the other end, I vastly prefered the Phase One movies to the Phase Two ones, so it's not going to get better.

[knives]

He didn't criticize the whole genre, just a mode within it. Also it isn't like he went to the latest Thor and said it was too Marvel like, but rather going to Suicide Squad which should come with different expectations and complaining it was too Marvel like. For example I'll be seeing there as an Ayer fan and would hate for it to be like a Marvel movie.

I've recently read waaayyyy too many people saying "DC is badly trying to copy Marvel" while there actually isn't a lot of good things to copy in Marvel movies.
I also indeed thought Suicide Squad might be a different movie than most super ones because the material and the characters are simply different than most.
And it happens that I quite like End of Watch (but found Fury quite meh).

For me Ayer is like AC/DC. He only has one film in him and it is a juvenile film, but he's perfected it into a load of fun. The idea of Margot Robbie being this film's Ethan Hawke is enough to get me to watch.

[captveg]

I'm usually watching these at home on BD, allowing me to fast forward the most boring parts.

However, some projects seem more intriguing than others, and I feel some might positively surprise me, hence my watching them. Iron Man was rather good, but since, only Ant Man and Guardians of the Galaxy were rather entertaining though far from being masterpieces. So you never know. I also happen to like Man of Steel (I'd rate it 7/10) and didn't particularly dislike BvS in its UE cut though it certainly drags a lot, especially the pointless Lois investigation (2 hours later, guess what : Lex is the bad guy !) (I haven't seen the TC at all so can't compare). So again, I'm curious and you never know. I'm usually very open about testing movies with the motto that I don't want to let a good one slip, so here you go.

However, I'm getting indeed to a point where they entertain me less and less, and even the most intriguing ones turn out to be flat-out disappointments. Thus, for instance, I haven't watch Civil War because after Age of Ultron, I doubt Civil War might be a good surprise for me. Doctor Strange, on the other end, looks intriguing and I will probably catch it on video at home.

As for Suicide Squad, the bad reviews I read actually made me curious about how much of a school case for failure it could be. I disagree with some remarks I've read (for instance the titles cutting Waller's introduction seems silly, but it isn't such an issue either), but it certainly fails to be entertaining.

I also happen to write technical reviews for the movies I watch on BD, and from time to time artistic reviews and since the website I'm writing on is among the few to have posted a very positive review (5 out of 6 stars), I felt I could judge the movie by myself and maybe offer a counter-point or, if the movie happened to be a good surprise, support this lone review.

Retrospectively however, it's true that I don't hold in high esteem a lot of the post-00s Marvel movies (as written above).

So here's your answer.

I typed about the MCU movies for an upcoming article I'll publish for the website I'm writing on and yeah, the overall average is around 5/10 which is not particularly good, with some / many going as low as 2/10. But it goes up to 7.5, so it's all a question of gamble, curiosity and opportunity / free time. On the other end, I vastly prefered the Phase One movies to the Phase Two ones, so it's not going to get better.

Thanks for taking the time to elaborate. You're "crappy" statement just jarred me as I explained, but in this context I'm seeing what you meant.

[tenia]

On the other end, I totally admit it was simplistic to sum up my view on the MCU roster by simply saying it's "crappy", since the movies are a bit more varied in quality than this. However, I do think that, as a whole, the MCU movies aren't very good : at best, they're decent, at worse, they're absolutely awful. Even when fast-forwarding through it, I though Age of Ultron would never end.

[carmilla mircalla]

On the other end, I totally admit it was simplistic to sum up my view on the MCU roster by simply saying it's "crappy", since the movies are a bit more varied in quality than this. However, I do think that, as a whole, the MCU movies aren't very good : at best, they're decent, at worse, they're absolutely awful. Even when fast-forwarding through it, I though Age of Ultron would never end.

The MCU is just straight commerce. There's been no real artistic quality in any of those movies thus far and serve as just very basic crowd pleasing. Of course because of this I can go see them and enjoy them and when I don't it doesn't make any real difference than if I were satisfied.

While I don't champion the DCEU either there is at least the effort of trying to root everything into some filmic quality beyond the simple adaptation of a comic book.

That all being said, Suicide Squad has always looked awful to me but I should probably see it to have a real opinion.

[Luke M]

I'm usually watching these at home on BD, allowing me to fast forward the most boring parts.

However, some projects seem more intriguing than others, and I feel some might positively surprise me, hence my watching them. Iron Man was rather good, but since, only Ant Man and Guardians of the Galaxy were rather entertaining though far from being masterpieces. So you never know. I also happen to like Man of Steel (I'd rate it 7/10) and didn't particularly dislike BvS in its UE cut though it certainly drags a lot, especially the pointless Lois investigation (2 hours later, guess what : Lex is the bad guy !) (I haven't seen the TC at all so can't compare). So again, I'm curious and you never know. I'm usually very open about testing movies with the motto that I don't want to let a good one slip, so here you go.

However, I'm getting indeed to a point where they entertain me less and less, and even the most intriguing ones turn out to be flat-out disappointments. Thus, for instance, I haven't watch Civil War because after Age of Ultron, I doubt Civil War might be a good surprise for me. Doctor Strange, on the other end, looks intriguing and I will probably catch it on video at home.

As for Suicide Squad, the bad reviews I read actually made me curious about how much of a school case for failure it could be. I disagree with some remarks I've read (for instance the titles cutting Waller's introduction seems silly, but it isn't such an issue either), but it certainly fails to be entertaining.

I also happen to write technical reviews for the movies I watch on BD, and from time to time artistic reviews and since the website I'm writing on is among the few to have posted a very positive review (5 out of 6 stars), I felt I could judge the movie by myself and maybe offer a counter-point or, if the movie happened to be a good surprise, support this lone review.

Retrospectively however, it's true that I don't hold in high esteem a lot of the post-00s Marvel movies (as written above).

So here's your answer.

IMO, Civil War was leagues ahead of Ultron and the best superhero movie since The Dark Knight.

[captveg]

IMO, Civil War was leagues ahead of Ultron and the best superhero movie since The Dark Knight.

I really liked it (9/10), but I've been kinda surprised how little I've thought about it in the months since when compared to, say, The Winter Soldier. I'm not sure if it's just because of the Marvel formula becoming less interesting to me (even when I enjoy the films in the moment), or if even by Marvel standards the film has too little to say.

[matrixschmatrix]

I consistently enjoy the Marvel movies, and I think I've seen all of them in the theater since like the second Thor movie, but as much as I think the Russo brothers made some of the comedy bits work better, they didn't really manage to get Civil War out of the franchise service rut- whereas Winter Soldier had enough stuff that stood on its own to feel like an actual, integral, movie, putting it up there with Guardians and Iron Man 3 for me.

It's true that the DC movies don't appear to have the same problem, but I don't know that replacing samey with Snyder's trick of punishing you for thinking about anything (which the trailers have suggested Ayer is imitating faithfully) is much of an improvement.

[Luke M]

IMO, Civil War was leagues ahead of Ultron and the best superhero movie since The Dark Knight.

I really liked it (9/10), but I've been kinda surprised how little I've thought about it in the months since when compared to, say, The Winter Soldier. I'm not sure if it's just because of the Marvel formula becoming less interesting to me (even when I enjoy the films in the moment), or if even by Marvel standards the film has too little to say.

I still think about it quite a bit. I've been reading Coates' Black Panther run and think back on Boseman's performance. I've been following news on the Black Panther movie as well. Also, the climax pops in my head every now and then, for what it was able to achieve in the sense of it just being three characters in an enclosed area. Everything just clicked for me in that movie moreso than any other Marvel flick.

[captveg]

I guess I'm just different - I don't even know what you mean exactly by Snyder punishing, for example. I've never once had that feeling when seeing his films. (Granted, I've yet to see Sucker Punch or Legends of the Guardians).

[feihong]

Well, Sucker Punch will explain a lot of that. But to my mind you do see that sort of punishing you, the viewer, for thinking the film through––which I think is what Matrix is talking about--in BvS.

Also, I missed Man of Steel, and had to work pretty hard to catch up when watching BvS. At the same time, the movie was fiendishly simple, and not hard to follow at all? But it only ever felt like I was watching a sequel to something. I know the demands of Marvel's interconnected universe are sort of somewhat different, but I wouldn't really say BvS stands on its own so much.

[captveg]

Hmmm, maybe I just like movies that force the viewer to draw story conclusions in between the scenes. For example, it doesn't bother me that Clark calls Batman Bruce before the big fight, because I can just assume he saw his face with his X-ray vision on their earlier encounter.

Unless I'm still misunderstanding what you mean.