Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

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Black Hat
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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#51 Post by Black Hat » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:08 pm

I have no idea what your post means, what does semitic sound like? What is even semitic?

For one thing what we saw of her was most certainly supposed to be the authentic version of who she is.

Fans truly go to extraordinary lengths in attempts to rationalize poorly conceived ideas.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#52 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:14 pm

Read up!

And on what planet is the person that we saw in the 2nd part of the film the "authentic" version of anyone? Celeste is a character of her own creation - the fact that by that point she is living 24/7 as that persona doesn't make it "authentic" in the way you mean.

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Black Hat
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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#53 Post by Black Hat » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:39 pm

Wha? The performer and the backstage person are two different people.

The argument you can make here is the performer was her true identity, ie. 'authentic', but this wasn't really the story being told.

The person we saw off stage was intended to show what the pop star is like behind the mask, without all the people propping her up to go on stage.

Now if you want to claim that her off stage personality wasn't "authentic" or was "her own creation", I'd be very much interested in hearing you make that case because it was certainly nowhere to be found on the screen.

The only case you can make is "Celeste" was a character made for her — not as you suggest her own creation — and her struggle, her meltdowns stem from rebelling against that artificial creation in an effort to find her own identity.

As I wrote earlier you're projecting a lot of what you want the film to be about rather than what it actually was about.

And I knew what you meant, you're just way off base.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#54 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:56 pm

Sorry you didn't like the movie, Black Hat! I shouldn't have gotten involved.

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Mr Sausage
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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#55 Post by Mr Sausage » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:58 pm

Why are you being so belligerent? Nothing mfunk said is unreasonable or unintelligible. His point is that Celeste in her private life is as inauthentic as in her public life, or at least that her private self has become (deliberate or not) an extension of her public persona. Her emotional responses can be rawer, but she still puts on or continues to use personae when interacting with others. His point is that being a pop star has affected her ability to be authentic and open in any part of her life.

This may or may not be true, depending on the viewer. But it’s a valid interpretation worth exploring.

Also, by semitic accent, I assume he means an accent common among Jewish people, here one arising among Yiddish speaking communities in America (which would make it a Germanic accent, I guess, but who cares).

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Black Hat
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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#56 Post by Black Hat » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:17 pm

Certainly what mf wrote isn't unreasonable, but I just don't believe the film supports what he's saying much at all and when you start saying things like 'on what planet' as a defense it amounts to even less. For instance, we don't see anything about what went on during Celeste's rise to superstardom, the film jumps just as we get a taste of it, or her life as the popstar at the peak of their powers. What we see is the innocence, the 9/11 trauma and then cut to has been nostalgia artist. We're expected to fill in those considerable blanks on our own and I just think that's lazy, potentially manipulative as it caters to a certain type of fixed mindset. To MF it's the effect being a popstar has on the ego, but how do we know that? She's on the downswing when we see her again, maybe that's why her behavior is so boorish? Perhaps it's belligerent to insist mfunk wrestle with the broad claims he makes, but I think what him and others (I shouldn't single him out) have remarked about this film's brilliance warrant serious challenging.

And yeah the Jewish accent is pretty much pointless, but it wasn't the accent she had as a child either. She's from Staten Island which is predominantly Italian/Irish.

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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#57 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:25 pm

It's the Midsommar thread all over again - becoming a recurrent theme here that a film needs to show you everything or that viewers can't draw their own conclusions about what the director chooses to show.

You might want to watch the film again, though, if you really think Corbet left out anything about Celeste's rise to superstardom. It's literally what the entire film is about, every minute of its run-time after its opening credits is about her rise to and existence within superstardom. The final narration is about exactly what happened (real or imagined, the film leaves that up to interpretation) to grant her said superstardom. I don't consider it particularly belligerent to insist otherwise, but I do find it downright bizarre - and absolutely an argument in bad faith that makes engaging with the discussion any further sort of useless. To me, anyway. Anyone else can have at it.

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Black Hat
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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#58 Post by Black Hat » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:38 pm

It's unrelated to this topic, but to be clear Aster's film is light years ahead of this and my personal reaction to it was far more positive than my hostility to Vox Lux. It's ok to to disagree vehemently about a movie dude, life does go on and yeah he did leave it out, almost entirely. Approximately 15, maybe 20 years, unless you want to count the narration as sufficient.

As for my view being "bizarre", not that 'other people agreed with me" should matter, but since you think I'm practicing 'bad faith' (whatever that means) plenty of people shared my views on the film - Caramanica and the gang at NYT Popcast for example were downright laughing at Vox Lux.

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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#59 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:00 pm

You entirely missed my point on both fronts. And I'm aware that there are people who dislike the film.

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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#60 Post by Brianruns10 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:12 pm

Knowing how the film was originally conceived, as a 65mm lensed film starring Rooney Mara, and how things were pared down in terms of scope and expectations, I got the distinct impression that the film represents something of a compromised vision. The ambition was there, but it felt like it had been hamstrung by circumstance, one of those films that was conceived as far more ambitious, but ultimately becomes compromised when the budget is cut, and the lead role recast. I would've been fascinated to see what film would've been made had the initial vision been retained.

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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#61 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:25 pm

Mara is an impressive talent, and obviously a bigger budget could've helped with the 65mm part and making the stage show more believably tacky, but I wouldn't necessarily call recasting the film with an iconic, Oscar-winning actress in the lead a compromise

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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#62 Post by dda1996a » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:33 pm

I don't know really, I found the first half to be on par with Haneke and Egoyan and Borderline Bros, only for the second half to be really disappointing not because of Portman, but mostly because the film leaves the cold detached and clinical first half for just a talkie "star is breaking down". Everything after the second shooting didn't work for me, and the final concert was down right bad IMO, even if I got the point

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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#63 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:35 pm

I'm just glad people are talking about this movie. I'm just glad people are talking about this movie. I'm just glad people are talking about this movie.

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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#64 Post by swo17 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:40 pm

I found the first half astonishing, and clearly made by someone who knew what he wanted and what he was doing, and the second half, comparatively, wildly disappointing. But I don't think it's a thematic stretch at all to assume that that's exactly what Corbet intended.

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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#65 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:53 pm

Did anybody else find the end credits sequence particularly unsettling?

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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#66 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:59 pm

I'm with you, flyonthewall. It's startling and a little blood-curdling for me to sit through after the experience of watching the film itself.

I'm sure there's a listicle somewhere, but are there any other notable films (that otherwise feature music) that have no sound over the end credits?

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Mr Sausage
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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#67 Post by Mr Sausage » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:34 pm

Could someone remind me what the end credits sequence is? I've entirely forgotten.

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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#68 Post by swo17 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:37 pm

I didn't remember either but I gather from mfunk's post that there just wasn't a score accompanying it

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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#69 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:46 pm

Text scrolls similarly to the opening credits, but it's over some lush imagery and there's indeed no sound whatsoever

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knives
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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#70 Post by knives » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:24 pm

Mr Sausage wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:58 pm
Also, by semitic accent, I assume he means an accent common among Jewish people, here one arising among Yiddish speaking communities in America (which would make it a Germanic accent, I guess, but who cares).
Probably Polish influenced as the Germanic Jews, called Yekker because of their distinctive jackets, have a radically different accent from the stereotypical American Jewish accent. Though that's not true across the board such as with the Marx Brothers who were French-Germanic Jews. Though befitting this conversation their accents were all made up for their stage characters and slowly spilled into their real life at least in Groucho's case.

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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#71 Post by Reverend Drewcifer » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:09 pm

It's a Staten Island accent through and through. All other speculation is narishkeit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a-XrY6awNw

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Re: Vox Lux (Brady Corbet, 2018)

#72 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:11 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:59 pm
I'm with you, flyonthewall. It's startling and a little blood-curdling for me to sit through after the experience of watching the film itself.

I'm sure there's a listicle somewhere, but are there any other notable films (that otherwise feature music) that have no sound over the end credits?
Less to do with the audio than the visuals. There is a really potent power in the horror of what's unknown and if that imagery is meant to correlate with any deal Celeste had with the devil, it wouldn't surprise me.

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