48 Night of the Demon

Discuss Blu-rays released by Indicator and the films on them.

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swo17
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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#26 Post by swo17 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:52 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:38 pm
After the fiasco with the Apartment
The fake fiasco...

I'd also trust Powerhouse to do a much better job of packaging your boxset well so it doesn't get all banged up during shipment

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Drucker
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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#27 Post by Drucker » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:27 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:38 pm
After the fiasco with the Apartment, if it's limited and selling out and you can order directly from the label, do that, even if it does cost a couple more bucks
Besides!
SpoilerShow
Amazon is the most evil company in the world and will surely come for and kill us all!

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Florinaldo
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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#28 Post by Florinaldo » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:48 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:38 pm
After the fiasco with the Apartment, if it's limited and selling out and you can order directly from the label, do that, even if it does cost a couple more bucks
Do such "fiascos" (fake, real or imagined) occur often enough to translate it into a hard and fast rule?

Are we really expecting this limited edition to sell out before it even comes out in 2 months time, at 8 000 copies? If so, it will truly be quite an achievement; after all, the Sinbad Trilogy LE is still available on Amazon UK, Powerhouse and elsewhere, even though it was issued in a mere 6 000 copies in June 2017, and despite repeated noises about it getting out of print "soon" (which will eventually happen, of course).

Anyway, you have convinced me to go with Amazon UK. Thanks!
swo17 wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:52 pm
The fake fiasco...

I'd also trust Powerhouse to do a much better job of packaging your boxset well so it doesn't get all banged up during shipment
Powerhouse did make a very good job of packing the Harryausen bundle for shipment to Canada but then again, I have never had a box set get banged up from Amazon UK, even after crossing the pond and I have ordered a fair number of them over the past year alone.

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DarkImbecile
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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#29 Post by DarkImbecile » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:23 pm

Sure would make it a lot easier to decide where to order from if there was any hint from anyone who might know such things that there could be another big Indicator sale at some point in the future... or even just a free shipping promotion for orders over 75£....?

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domino harvey
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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#30 Post by domino harvey » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:23 pm

Florinaldo wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:48 pm
domino harvey wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:38 pm
After the fiasco with the Apartment, if it's limited and selling out and you can order directly from the label, do that, even if it does cost a couple more bucks
Do such "fiascos" (fake, real or imagined) occur often enough to translate it into a hard and fast rule?

Are we really expecting this limited edition to sell out before it even comes out in 2 months time, at 8 000 copies? If so, it will truly be quite an achievement; after all, the Sinbad Trilogy LE is still available on Amazon UK, Powerhouse and elsewhere, even though it was issued in a mere 6 000 copies in June 2017, and despite repeated noises about it getting out of print "soon" (which will eventually happen, of course).

Anyway, you have convinced me to go with Amazon UK. Thanks!
That'll show me? Order wherever you like, but Amazon seemed to have no problem canceling a lot of orders for an item that people preordered. If you're worried about making sure you get a copy, order direct. You don't seem worried, so whatever

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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#31 Post by MichaelB » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:59 am

I strongly advise people not to compare this release with other Indicator ones and assume that because Sinbad was still available a year after release, this one will be too.

The speed with which Night of the Demon is selling is unprecedented in Powerhouse’s experience, and certain things have happened that are unique to this release - for instance, Guillermo del Toro plugging it to more than 1.5 million people.

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tenia
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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#32 Post by tenia » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:47 am

To be fair with all those Arrow "fiascos", how many people were concerned with getting their orders cancelled from Amazon ? 1% ? 5% ?
These cases are most likely over-represented on specialized boards like here or blu-ray.com, but in practice, the numbers probably amounts in negligible figures out of each product' allocations, or maybe even each total run.

This being written, I understand how the buyer getting the order cancelled is taking 100% of the issue in the face.


In this case though, I compared the prices with Amazon and usually, PH's shipping fees are enough to make it quite uninteresting to me in Belgium or France (even if I'm willing to pay a bit more to order direct), which has prevented me so far to order from them direct, despite being something I usually prefer (starting with Eureka, I've started shifting many of my orders from UK and FR labels to the labels own web boutiques when they have one). It's not the case here thanks to the bundle, and the Castle set + the Tourneur will only end up £2 more expensive than Amazon !
So... order switched !

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Florinaldo
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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#33 Post by Florinaldo » Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:37 am

domino harvey wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:23 pm
That'll show me?
No such exhibitionism intended, but rather the exercise of free will (or as others might say "you pays your money, you takes your chances") based on the balance of reasonable probabilities.

One sole instance of a pre-ordered title being cancelled does not a trend or a regular business practice make. Or as tenia rightly says
tenia wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:47 am
To be fair with all those Arrow "fiascos", how many people were concerned with getting their orders cancelled from Amazon ? 1% ? 5% ?
These cases are most likely over-represented on specialized boards like here or blu-ray.com, but in practice, the numbers probably amounts in negligible figures out of each product' allocations, or maybe even each total run.
If we applied the principle that a single event or small number of occurrences (as compared to the whole) is equivalent to an assured expectation, we would stop driving our cars, crossing the streets or taking buses and trains, because accidents do happen, in a small minority of cases. Unless it can be demonstrated that Amazon UK regularly cancels pre-ordered titles, I think that people should not be too worried about the safety of ordering the two Indicator sets now from that supplier.

As for the danger of it selling out, I am sure it's a story that the publisher likes to hear and see repeated. It's what people in marketing call by the highly technical term "puffery"; it's not lying, just playing up some elements of the message and facts.

I understand from MichaelB's sober remarks that there is unusual interest for this title, but will it be sustained long enough to use up the entire run in the next few weeks or is this just a transitory peak, as often happens? It is after all an item that is more expensive than run-of-the-mill BDs and won't attract casual customers. It is a very enjoyable movie, with many qualities (MacGinnis, the atmospheric sequences) and faults (the demon puppets are not all equally well realised), but is it really that much of a cult item to attract 8 000 hardcore fans to buy the whole run so fast? Did del Toro direct people directly and solely to Powerhouse as a source for buying the title?

It may also depends on Indicator's arrangements with vendors; is the number of copies Amazon UK pre-ordered guaranteed or can the publisher lower it at will? I would say it's not likely because it would be bad business practice, but I cannot be sure of course. It will be interesting to see if there are indeed cancellations reported by Amazon customers once the disc does come out; events could very well prove me wrong.

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tenia
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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#34 Post by tenia » Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:59 am

I'd tend to compartiment things here. You make a valid point about how advertising here and there how a limited edition is getting tons of pre-orders fits with the product marketing system. But I'd argue that in the case of Indicator's titles, Michael has been rather neutral in his indications here, in the way that he was informing about selling paces and "x copies remaining, soon to be OOP" and that it was indeed very matter-of-fact in the end.
Sure, it serves the product but I trust him in the information being disclosed to serve the potential customers (including the CF.org's members) first.
That's why I also believe him when he says that Indicator haven't pushed the lot size for no reason.

So some might try to do this as a stunt for pushing sales, but I don't believe that's the case here (and would actually be wary about spreading suspicions about here, because I wouldn't like Michael stopping posting such updates here as a response).

As for Amazon's allocation, I think the issue might be similar to airplane companies overbooking their flight, because they always have cancellations. If Amazon applies the same system for returns and cancellations + replacement copies here, it's not surprising they can be off by, say, 50 copies. But again, for the 50 customers who get their orders cancelled because of that, they're 100% hit by the cancellation and 100% stuck in this situation, potentially late enough that others channels have also sold their copies (this kind of thinking is a big part in the industry of what supports the quality processes, like 6-sigma analysis, to try and push the defect rate below 0.01% : you'd think 0.1% is OK, but for the persons getting defective products, they're 100% defective).

As you wrote, you're getting what you pay for. I never had a single cancellation like this from Amazon and probably could try my luck here again. But I can also pay a mere £2 so that my money goes straight to PH but also being sure I'm getting my copies.
But on the other hand, I also understand how people needs not to overestimate the amount of orders concerned by these kinds of cancellations from Amazon. Again, for every Arrow LE release which generated such discussion, I'd be surprised if this concerns more than 5% of each total batch run.

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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#35 Post by MichaelB » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:20 am

Florinaldo wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:37 am
I understand from MichaelB's sober remarks that there is unusual interest for this title, but will it be sustained long enough to use up the entire run in the next few weeks or is this just a transitory peak, as often happens? It is after all an item that is more expensive than run-of-the-mill BDs and won't attract casual customers. It is a very enjoyable movie, with many qualities (MacGinnis, the atmospheric sequences) and faults (the demon puppets are not all equally well realised), but is it really that much of a cult item to attract 8 000 hardcore fans to buy the whole run so fast? Did del Toro direct people directly and solely to Powerhouse as a source for buying the title?
As it happens, he did, but I'm not sure why this would have made any difference, since even if he'd directed people to another retailer that wouldn't change the fact that only 8,000 copies are being produced in total.

And yes, all signs are that it is indeed that much of a cult item, which is why the print run was increased to 8,000 in the first place (and not out of fingers-crossed optimism; this came about after a fortnight of hard pre-sales data that suggested that this would be a wise investment on Powerhouse's part). You clearly haven't been tracking the social media buzz about this specific edition (going back a full year since it was first teased), otherwise you wouldn't be making these oddly pedantic arguments about the demon puppets being "faults", as though that's going to put people off buying it.

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Florinaldo
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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#36 Post by Florinaldo » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:40 am

MichaelB wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:20 am
And yes, all signs are that it is indeed that much of a cult item, which is why the print run was increased to 8,000 in the first place (and not out of fingers-crossed optimism; this came about after a fortnight of hard pre-sales data that suggested that this would be a wise investment on Powerhouse's part). You clearly haven't been tracking the social media buzz about this specific edition (going back a full year since it was first teased), otherwise you wouldn't be making these oddly pedantic arguments about the demon puppets being "faults", as though that's going to put people off buying it.
I indeed have not followed the social media buzz, but even if I had I don't think it would have prevented me from pointing out what I think is a technical fault: some of the puppets look good (especially the one that materialises in long shot from points of light and wisps of smoke as I recall), others not as much (the one who holds a victim in its hand). But faults are never enough to harm a film's popularity (a point I never put forward anyway); many movies with filmic, storytelling or technical deficiencies are still very popular and watchable, and will surely remain so. If mentioning a movie's weaknesses, as is often done on these boards, is "oddly pedantic" then I fully embrace the oddness and the pedantry! :wink:

No one denies that this film has had a large following for quite some time (totally independently of any social media buzz and predating it by many years) and it's high time if gets such a loving treatment in English (I have the French Wild Side edition), but the real question is whether that following is extensive enough that this edition will sell out before publication date. Time will soon tell.

Good for Indicator if it does.

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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#37 Post by MichaelB » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:36 am

Final specs for Night of the Demon, including some previously unannounced extras:

Image

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rockysds
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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#38 Post by rockysds » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:12 am

Also, according to the Indicator twitter account, the print run has been increased to 10,000.

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tenia
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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#39 Post by tenia » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:20 am

Just a small remark for the disc 1 details : as written on these final specs, it can be complicated to know which version is the 2K restoration at 1.75 and which is the HD remaster at 1.66. Indeed, both of these technical explanations are in their plural forms, but there only is 2 cuts ! Maybe they're both presented in 2 different formats (ie 4 presentations on disc 1), but that's not my understanding so far and I guess these plurals should instead be singular (in which case I'd suggest to regroup the technical details with its related cut instead of regrouping first the cuts then the technicalities).

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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#40 Post by MichaelB » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:24 am

There are indeed four presentations on disc one - the longer cuts of Night of the Demon and Curse of the Demon, with each viewable at either 1.75:1 or 1.66:1.

My own recommendation for first-timers would be Night of the Demon at 1.75:1.

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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#41 Post by EddieLarkin » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:25 am

Out of interest, did the new restoration come at 1.75:1 or did Indicator crop it from 1.66:1?

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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#42 Post by MichaelB » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:27 am

It's a true 1.75:1 encode, with extra information at the sides compared with the 1.66:1 version but fractionally less at the top and bottom.

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tenia
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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#43 Post by tenia » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:45 am

MichaelB wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:24 am
There are indeed four presentations on disc one - the longer cuts of Night of the Demon and Curse of the Demon, with each viewable at either 1.75:1 or 1.66:1.
Oh OK, that explains it. Thanks for the precision Michael.

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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#44 Post by Jean-Luc Garbo » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:24 am

tenia wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:45 am
MichaelB wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:24 am
There are indeed four presentations on disc one - the longer cuts of Night of the Demon and Curse of the Demon, with each viewable at either 1.75:1 or 1.66:1.
Oh OK, that explains it. Thanks for the precision Michael.
I was wondering the same! Glad that Cloven in Two is on there to discuss it further.

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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#45 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:55 am

Wonderful to see Michael Hordern's dulcet tones added.

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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#46 Post by KJones77 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:30 pm

Seems like more than a few people on blu-ray.com were confused as to whether or not this one was Region Free despite Indicator's site saying it is Region Free so they had some insider come in to confirm what the website says already...

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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#47 Post by domino harvey » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:36 pm

KJones77 wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:30 pm
Seems like more than a few people on blu-ray.com were confused as to whether or not this one was Region Free despite Indicator's site saying it is Region Free so they had some insider come in to confirm what the website says already...
Careful, they'll call this post a meltdown and then pat each other on the back for their own mental midgetry

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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#48 Post by Gerald Christie » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:25 pm

Damn, not that I was expecting any less but it looks like an all around terrific and comprehensive package. What about the booklet though? Is that finalized as well? When can we expect to know more on that?
Unrelated, but when can we expect the final specs on the William Castle set?

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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#49 Post by MichaelB » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:25 am

Gerald Christie wrote:Damn, not that I was expecting any less but it looks like an all around terrific and comprehensive package. What about the booklet though? Is that finalized as well? When can we expect to know more on that?
Everything’s been signed off for manufacturing. The book is 80 pages long (i.e. a similar length to the Harryhausen and Boetticher books) and crammed with original and archival material that’s designed to complement the disc contents.
Unrelated, but when can we expect the final specs on the William Castle set?
In a few hours. We deliberately engineered a 24-hour gap between announcements as we’re equally proud of the Castle release and didn’t want it to be sidelined by the Night of the Demon announcement (or vice versa).

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Re: 48 Night of the Demon

#50 Post by DarkImbecile » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:13 am

Am I reading the newsletter correctly that Indicator has already sold out of the limited edition and hence is releasing the standard edition next month? If so, I’m glad I caved and pre-ordered the limited edition without waiting for a sale!

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