Manoel de Oliveira on DVD
- Barmy
- Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 3:59 pm
You're certainly right to bring up Harvey Keitel. One of the most narcissistic, selfish, movie-ruining actors ever.
I have no problems with MO, but I also have trouble criticizing MO haters.
Based on what I've seen, his 1970s/80s period is superior to the more recent films. Among other things, although stagey, they seem much more engaged in the sensuality of cinema than the drier, later films.
I have no problems with MO, but I also have trouble criticizing MO haters.
Based on what I've seen, his 1970s/80s period is superior to the more recent films. Among other things, although stagey, they seem much more engaged in the sensuality of cinema than the drier, later films.
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- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:34 pm
- Location: London
That's one way of seeing it. Part of the critics love him and he's an institution. He's going to have a stamp. But his films are extremely personal, and if you happen not to like them or do not have the taste/patience/whatever to go through with them, then they don't work for you. His films do show often enough on TV. From top of my head I have tried "Non, ou a vã glória de mandar", "O Convento" e "Vale Abrãao". The trailers are often enough to put someone off (the one for "Party" is still in my memory). And it doesn't help that half of his choice of actors can't act (subtitles can mask performances): both Leonor Silveira and his grandson are awful.ptmd wrote:Probably for the same reason Angelopoulos is disliked in Greece, for making "boring," difficult, even eccentric films that violate the standards of both the local industry and Hollywood and place unusual demands upon the viewer. Of course, his best films reward that sort of effort and that's precisely why he's a great director (that and his stubborn determination to make his films the way he wants to).Curious, is Oliveira really disliked in Portugal? If so, why?
The best Oliveira related film for me? A 1933 comedy called "A Canção de Lisboa" which has nothing to do with him except that he acts in it (the only time he did it)
- John Cope
- Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:40 pm
- Location: where the simulacrum is true
Or, perhaps, their performance model is simply atypical. For me, these two are amongst the finest in his company as they seem to totally get what he is going for (observe Leonor's precisely attuned work in A Talking Picture) and abet him in his efforts. Only Luis Miguel Cintra bests them. Interestingly, on IMDB there is a comment from a Portuguese viewer of Palavra e Utopia who bashes Cintra for being an "oratorian" and Ricardo Trepa for being "unexpressive and boring". Oh well. Of course this same viewer condemns Oliveira for being "incapable of starting or ending a scene without someone opening or closing a door". LOL.Miguel M Santos wrote:And it doesn't help that half of his choice of actors can't act (subtitles can mask performances): both Leonor Silveira and his grandson are awful.
It doesn't hurt, of course, that I'm in love with Silveira. BTW, maybe you could enlighten me a bit here Miguel, it doesn't seem that she appears in much else beyond Oliveira's work. Now I know that you probably think this is for good reason but I wondered if she has, in fact, turned up in much else. Certainly nothing that has received the same level of exposure as the MO films.
- Kinsayder
- Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:22 pm
- Location: UK
The four parts of Le Soulier de satin can be downloaded (legally!) from the INA (Institut national de l’Audiovisuel) website: 1 2 3 4
They are in DRM-protected DivX format (6 Euros each for purchase or 2 Euros for rental) with a free 10-minute preview.
On the same site, a 37-minute radio interview with Oliveira (in French).
They are in DRM-protected DivX format (6 Euros each for purchase or 2 Euros for rental) with a free 10-minute preview.
On the same site, a 37-minute radio interview with Oliveira (in French).
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- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:34 pm
- Location: London
John, She was in a film in the mid-nineties called "Porto Santo" from another director. It was done after "Vale Abraão" - of her non Oliveira films this was the one that had the biggest press coverage (helped by the fact that the director had press links, being a former newspaper director). No non Oliveira DVD releases, I'm afraid. I'm talking from memory, and please consider this as a fifteen year old recollection rather than fact, but in the mid-nineties I seem to recall that she said in an interview she didn't consider herself as a professional actress, and the fact she acted had a lot to do with Oliveira.John Cope wrote:Or, perhaps, their performance model is simply atypical. For me, these two are amongst the finest in his company as they seem to totally get what he is going for (observe Leonor's precisely attuned work in A Talking Picture) and abet him in his efforts. Only Luis Miguel Cintra bests them. Interestingly, on IMDB there is a comment from a Portuguese viewer of Palavra e Utopia who bashes Cintra for being an "oratorian" and Ricardo Trepa for being "unexpressive and boring". Oh well. Of course this same viewer condemns Oliveira for being "incapable of starting or ending a scene without someone opening or closing a door". LOL.Miguel M Santos wrote:And it doesn't help that half of his choice of actors can't act (subtitles can mask performances): both Leonor Silveira and his grandson are awful.
It doesn't hurt, of course, that I'm in love with Silveira. BTW, maybe you could enlighten me a bit here Miguel, it doesn't seem that she appears in much else beyond Oliveira's work. Now I know that you probably think this is for good reason but I wondered if she has, in fact, turned up in much else. Certainly nothing that has received the same level of exposure as the MO films.
Ricardo Trepa (the grandson) is a pain to watch. I've seen a couple his scenes in soap operas (the furthest you can get from Oliveira's world, you'd agree), and he is just appalling. Not helped by the fact that he can't mask (if required by the part) is very strong northern accent... In the "O quinto império" he plays the king - i don't know what he sounded like, but I doubt it was like what I heard in the trailer.
Luís Miguel Cintra is a highly regarded film and theatre actor/director. I haven't seen him on stage, and his film work usually is things I would avoid like the plague (Oliveira, Monteiro, etc.).
- John Cope
- Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:40 pm
- Location: where the simulacrum is true
An excellent write up by Michael Atkinson. I think he partially misses the point, though, on Rite of Spring. He says that
but doesn't note the way in which Oliveira's presentational style contributes an additional level of discourse. In short, placing the theatrical nature of this Passion Play in the foreground allows him to present us with an implicit question as to how rote these performances actually are, how staged or artificial, and whether or not that kind of intellectual disconnect ultimately matters much or makes any definitive difference. This question (and many others he asks consistently) is addressed more thoroughly in Le soulier de satin. Rite of Spring also has one of the most jarring, dramatic endings to all of Oliveira's cinema, echoed later by the final moments of A Talking Picture.It’s one of the best films about Christ, because it’s about devotion — its beauties and idiocies — on every level, and it reflects on the dramatic impulse behind religious feeling to boot.
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- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:12 pm
Having just seen proper prints of Doomed Love and Francisca in the last 48 hours, I just want to reiterate again that, if these come by a theater in your area, you really should make every effort to go. Neither of these films has played in the US on film for the past 20 years, but they are almost certainly Manoel de Oliveira's greatest films (I have yet to see The Satin Slipper, but my suspicion is that it's in the same league) and they benefit enormously from theatrical viewing.
Since it's a Paulo Branco-produced, Madragoa/Gemini Films-owned title, Francisca may well make it on to an English-friendly DVD at some point, but I'm doubtful about Doomed Love (especially because the only English-subtitled prints apparently come from archival sources). To be honest, I find it hard to believe that Doomed Love was made for television, particularly because Oliveira exploits the low-light textural possibilities of 16mm film stock to such an extraordinary degree that certain scenes, like a pivotal 20-minute nighttime sequence early in the film, virtually wouldn't register on a TV. While it is less evident in his recent work, both of these films make it clear that Oliveira is one of the great masters of cinematic color and the effects he achieves through subtle shifts in lighting are breathtaking.
Since it's a Paulo Branco-produced, Madragoa/Gemini Films-owned title, Francisca may well make it on to an English-friendly DVD at some point, but I'm doubtful about Doomed Love (especially because the only English-subtitled prints apparently come from archival sources). To be honest, I find it hard to believe that Doomed Love was made for television, particularly because Oliveira exploits the low-light textural possibilities of 16mm film stock to such an extraordinary degree that certain scenes, like a pivotal 20-minute nighttime sequence early in the film, virtually wouldn't register on a TV. While it is less evident in his recent work, both of these films make it clear that Oliveira is one of the great masters of cinematic color and the effects he achieves through subtle shifts in lighting are breathtaking.
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- Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:19 pm
- Location: Cambridge, MA
Doomed Love is playing at the Harvard Film Archive Saturday March 22 at 6pm. I saw it when it played there approx. 5 years ago. There were only 8 people in the theater watching the film (including Chantal Akerman who was teaching at Harvard at the time).
Monumental film which I'm thrilled to see again and suggest that everyone in the Boston area make it.
Monumental film which I'm thrilled to see again and suggest that everyone in the Boston area make it.
- Barmy
- Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 3:59 pm
Agreed on Francisca and Doomed. WAY better than most of his recent work. Francisca is the best film of his that I have seen. Doomed Love was excellent, but its subject matter and plot have been done to, erm, death.
Not sure how these would work on DVD, as they are all about intensity, imagery, etc. In particular there is no way I would sit through 4.5 hours of Doomed Love on the tube.
The series is not exactly attracting massive crowds, but at least more than 8 people are going.
Not sure how these would work on DVD, as they are all about intensity, imagery, etc. In particular there is no way I would sit through 4.5 hours of Doomed Love on the tube.
The series is not exactly attracting massive crowds, but at least more than 8 people are going.
- John Cope
- Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:40 pm
- Location: where the simulacrum is true
The always reliable Michael Anderson has a piece up now on Francisca.
Oh, and here's Zach Campbell on Amor de Perdição.
Oh, and here's Zach Campbell on Amor de Perdição.
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- Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:02 am
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- Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:02 am
update: a link to a brand new Oliveira interview.
He makes clear that SINGULARITIES OF A BLONDE GIRL (from de Queiroz) and THE STRANGE CASE OF ANGELICA (from his own story) are two separate projects, not the same, as I guessed in an earlier post.
He makes clear that SINGULARITIES OF A BLONDE GIRL (from de Queiroz) and THE STRANGE CASE OF ANGELICA (from his own story) are two separate projects, not the same, as I guessed in an earlier post.
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- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:34 pm
- Location: London
- Don Lope de Aguirre
- Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:39 pm
- Location: London
I am currently coming to the end of my long weekend in Lisbon and my general advice would be: don´t bother! As far as I can tell, as a general rule the English friendly Portuguese DVDs of de Oliveira and Pedro Costa and Monteiro are all available (on and off) in France at generally speaking cheaper prices... The only place that stocks these that I have come across is FNAC (off Rua Garret) and they -in the main- go for 17.50 Euro each. The other large DVD shop I tried called Worten (in Oriente) "do not stock Portuguese DVDs" at all!Will be going to Lisbon in the second fortnight of May - does anyone need any info that I might be able to get from asking/looking at the DVDs in shops?
Unless you are a big Monteiro fan (his films seem to be particularly scarce on ebay.fr, alapage etc) in which case you can find a good number of his films then I would advise waiting for them to become available from French etailers.
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- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:12 pm
Actually, this is something I've been wondering about. Are the French Manoel de Oliveira DVDs put out by Gemini identical to the ones put out in Portugal, just with different covers (i.e., do they also have English subtitles)? Alapage and amazon.fr don't list English subtitles for any of them, but it would obviously be much easier to buy from them than from Portuguese retailers so if they are subtitled, that would be good to know.As far as I can tell, as a general rule the English friendly Portuguese DVDs of de Oliveira and Pedro Costa and Monteiro are all available (on and off) in France at generally speaking cheaper prices...
- Don Lope de Aguirre
- Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:39 pm
- Location: London
Well, I am not an expert on this and this has -to an extent- been covered earlier on in this thread. As far as de Oliveira is concerned there is very little available, see for yourself by visiting www.fnac.pt.
The only de Oliveira DVD I bought was 'Non', ou A Vã Glória de Mandar because I am pretty sure the French DVD does not have English subs. Other than this I saw a copy of O Princípio da Incerteza which can be picked up for much less than the 17.50 Euro FNAC are charging (I think I bought a Belgian or Dutch version from ebay for about 8 Euro incl. p&p)... Basically, it´s a case of (sporadic) supply and demand.
If you are a Monteiro fan then they have Paths, Gods Comedy, The Hips of JW, The Last Dive, and Come & Go available...off head these cost 17.50 Euro and are generally subbed in Engl, It, Spa and French.
The only de Oliveira DVD I bought was 'Non', ou A Vã Glória de Mandar because I am pretty sure the French DVD does not have English subs. Other than this I saw a copy of O Princípio da Incerteza which can be picked up for much less than the 17.50 Euro FNAC are charging (I think I bought a Belgian or Dutch version from ebay for about 8 Euro incl. p&p)... Basically, it´s a case of (sporadic) supply and demand.
If you are a Monteiro fan then they have Paths, Gods Comedy, The Hips of JW, The Last Dive, and Come & Go available...off head these cost 17.50 Euro and are generally subbed in Engl, It, Spa and French.
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- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:34 pm
- Location: London
I was just trying to be friendly...Don Lope de Aguirre wrote: I am currently coming to the end of my long weekend in Lisbon and my general advice would be: don´t bother! As far as I can tell, as a general rule the English friendly Portuguese DVDs of de Oliveira and Pedro Costa and Monteiro are all available (on and off) in France at generally speaking cheaper prices... The only place that stocks these that I have come across is FNAC (off Rua Garret) and they -in the main- go for 17.50 Euro each. The other large DVD shop I tried called Worten (in Oriente) "do not stock Portuguese DVDs" at all!
But Worten isn't particularly brilliant, and definitely not that one (the one in another shopping centre is much better). But yes, if you want a DVD in Portugal you go to FNAC. (Although as I pointed out earlier I wouldn't recommend any portuguese film made after 1960 to anyone...)
That's why they are huge and still growing there. Importing DVDs can be a nightmare (there are several etailers who won't send stuff to Portugal) and the portuguese online shops are far ideally. Fortunately I live in London...
- Barmy
- Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 3:59 pm
Re: Manoel de Oliveira on DVD
Oliveira concedes that the only reason anyone knows who he is is that he is old.
- Rufus T. Firefly
- Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:24 am
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Manoel de Oliveira on DVD
Well, he is 100 today (it's Dec 11 here) so he must be old. So is Elliott Carter, who is also 100 today. That is, they will be 100, unless they pop off while the sun moves around the planet intelligent design-style.
- ola t
- They call us neo-cinephiles
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:51 am
- Location: Malmo, Sweden
Re: Manoel de Oliveira on DVD
Is his birthday December 11 or 12? IMDB says 11, Yahoo says 12, and Wikipedia says both!
- John Cope
- Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:40 pm
- Location: where the simulacrum is true
Re: Manoel de Oliveira on DVD
Stefan Andersson and I have been trying to hammer down details about this new set for awhile now. We've both contacted Lusomundo and received more or less the same confirmations, so that's good. Most importantly, the set is English subbed for 19 of the 21 feature films it contains. For whatever bizarre reason, Belle Toujours and Espelho Mágico are apparently un-subbed (at least in English), but at least those two are available elsewhere. All the exclusive releases are, in fact, fully subbed. I do not, however, know whether that extends to the extras on each disc. There is a separate extras disc with more general documentary and interview features, none of which are English subbed unfortunately. And there is also an accompanying 100+ page book in Portuguese.
I've also been attempting to work something out through DeeVeeDaa DVD in the States to stock the set as the shipping through FNAC is, of course, a killer. DeeVeeDaa has informed me that they will stock this item as soon as they receive confirmation on the subs through their contact at Lusomundo.
I've also been attempting to work something out through DeeVeeDaa DVD in the States to stock the set as the shipping through FNAC is, of course, a killer. DeeVeeDaa has informed me that they will stock this item as soon as they receive confirmation on the subs through their contact at Lusomundo.
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- Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: Manoel de Oliveira on DVD
Well, if subtitled in English, this massive set is outstanding news, though I just ordered the 8 disc box from Spain that contains Francisca, subtitled only in Spanish ! Please keep us informed of this development here on the forum, and definitely tell DeeVeeDaa to order enough of these for us stateside (I've actually used them before on Amazon Marketplace with good success).John Cope wrote:Stefan Andersson and I have been trying to hammer down details about this new set for awhile now. We've both contacted Lusomundo and received more or less the same confirmations, so that's good. Most importantly, the set is English subbed for 19 of the 21 feature films it contains. For whatever bizarre reason, Belle Toujours and Espelho Mágico are apparently un-subbed (at least in English), but at least those two are available elsewhere. All the exclusive releases are, in fact, fully subbed. I do not, however, know whether that extends to the extras on each disc. There is a separate extras disc with more general documentary and interview features, none of which are English subbed unfortunately. And there is also an accompanying 100+ page book in Portuguese.
I've also been attempting to work something out through DeeVeeDaa DVD in the States to stock the set as the shipping through FNAC is, of course, a killer. DeeVeeDaa has informed me that they will stock this item as soon as they receive confirmation on the subs through their contact at Lusomundo.
Incidentally, can you confirm that the stand-alone edition of Francisca available via FNAC in France contains English subtitles? The link certainly states that it does, but you never know!
Thanks for the news!
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- Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: Manoel de Oliveira on DVD
Thanks for the heads up on these films! Can you confirm that Francisca is, in fact, English-subtitled?
- whaleallright
- Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 12:56 am
Re: Manoel de Oliveira on DVD
I can't confirm anything, as I haven't bought it. Someone with deeper pockets than mine would have to take the risk on this one. I'm somewhat skeptical, if only because the listing seems to have come out of the blue.