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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:26 pm 
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Location: Germany
Plush wrote:
So, anyone have any idea what's going on with the Artificial Eye Histoire(s) release?

Yesterday, amazon.co.uk notified me that my preorder would arrive a month later.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:23 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:28 am
Back on Amazon, Sept 22 release.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:16 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:55 pm
kekid wrote:
I am not a Godard fan, but make every effort to "see the light" that obviously has eluded me so far. So I got this set. I have only skimmed through it. It seems to me that to enjoy this work one has to meet three pre-requisites: (1) one has to have an encyclopedic knowledge of European and American cinema (we can dismiss this as not essential, but I for one felt I lacked the breadth of knowledge Godard assumes his audience to possess to grasp countless references); (2) One has to know French. This is not an English-friendly set. Only the narration is subtitled, and that is not enough to enjoy the work; (3) Finally, one has to derive pleasure from Godard's brand of intellectualism. I miserably fail on all 3 counts. I spent a fair chunk of money to gain this wisdom, so thought a note of caution to balance adulation from others may be useful to the few on the forum who are as unenlightened as I.

I thank you for this!

I must ask, since you DID purchase this, does the set spur you towards a desire for greater understanding in some/all of the 3 pre-requisites that you list? I'm no academic (obviously), but many films challenge me towards enlightenment. In short: Many of my favorite films force me to rise up to their challenge. I am most attracted to that which is just outside my present grasp.

Or something like that.

(I am drunk.)[/quote]
I do not think it is possible to overcome these limitations without a lifelong engagement. (1) I see quite a few films, in various languages and various genres. However, Godard's method is to create an audio-visual montage of almost subliminal quotes from different films. In many cases I do not get it, and when I get it I find the exercise contrived. This is a matter of taste, and others may well enjoy it. (2) I do not know French. I would love to learn French, but that motivation will definitely not come from the desire to see a Godard film in the original language. It might come from the desire to read Flaubert in the original language (or something like that). Finally (3) Godard's films are dense constructions with many insider references. Others have argued that it is possible to enjoy them without deciphering these references. But I have always found myself to be an outsider in a Godard film. It is quite interesting that the few Godard films I enjoyed (Breathless, Contempt) were dismissed by Godard recently as not measuring up to his later work. This pronouncement confirmed to me that we come from different worlds. We all have limited time and resources and for me they are better spent elsewhere.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:46 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:29 pm
Location: Boston MA
s_mac_k wrote:
Must say though, having got the Gaumont set yesterday, apart from the subtitling (which I still feel is tough.... I can speak some languages but not a bit of french, so even the most basic on screen text eludes me, if AE can do a more complete job, I'll have to double dip) ...

I also have the Gaumont set and have fairly well resigned myself to the fact that the subtitling will be problematic in any release. Nonetheless, I'm surprised that I haven't yet found a single review comparing the Gaumont and AE, and there are certainly portions of the Gaumont set where English subtitles are notably absent in sequences where they would apparently be quite useful and non-distracting (including some noted up-thread).

Has anyone come across such a comparison or had an opportunity to make such a comparison yourself?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:45 am 

Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 7:55 am
This was posted in a discussion forum by an english fellow called alan (not sure how i go about quoting people here so apologies if i've buggered it up)...

"In response to the question about the difference (for English speakers) between the French and British versions of HDC, the
Artificial Eye version translates almost all of the text as well as the voice over and selected dialogue from the chosen films."

and yes the lack of reviews is FRUSTRATING and the weakness of the australian dollar even more so...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:02 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:33 am
Interesting news about Jean-Luc Godard's 'Histoire(s) du cinéma':

Quote:
The Australian company Madman has recently committed itself to
a future edition of Histoire(s) that reconstitutes its multiple layers for
English-language audiences.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:52 pm 

Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 7:55 am
Good stuff hey?
Aussie aussie aussie!

sorry... having a moment of national dvd producing pride there...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:02 pm
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Ok, so I am now the proud/foolish owner of both the AE and Gaumont Histoire(s) du Cinema sets.

(First I'll note that I bought the Gaumont when it was released, because I couldn't believe this was actually being put on dvd at all, and I was afraid that some copyright issue would whip it out of print in no time. So I ended up paying $72.96 for the Gaumont set, b/c the discount was lean and the exchange rate was ugly. I was patient on the AE, and I bought it from Amazon UK at the current 51% discount, and the pound is in the shitter, so I paid $27.24 for that one. Given what I am about to say, this pains me somewhat.)

After a very superficial glance, I would say that the AE is hands down the set to own for those who, like me, don't know much french beyond "je ne comprend pas." (Which, I might add, I can say quite gracefully.)

First, the AE set has better packaging. Each disc (there are 3) includes 2 quotes from Godard as part of the packaging. This is not Godard gold, but these are not trite quotes. They're at least a few sentences long in each case, and I think that they add something.

Second, the difference in the subtitles is gigantic. I have not spent a lot of time comparing the two, but just watching the beginning of "Toutes les Histoires," there are huge differences. The AE includes subtitles for almost all of the text on the screen. Moreover, the AE translates the snippets of dialogue from the quoted films. And, really, the AE translates more of Godard’s own spoken words than the Gaumont. For example, in the first few minutes we have Godard pounding away at his electric Brother, and he's saying stuff that the Gaumont does not bother to translate. Even with my crappy french, I knew that the first thing that he said was "the Rules of the Game," but I did not know that he went on to say "Cries & Whispers" and "Broken Blossoms."

These differences in the subtitles make watching the thing a totally different (and much more meaningful) experience for me.

I intend to spend more time comparing the sets over the next few weeks and will post more reactions if I think it is worthwhile. But at this point I would say that any devotee of Godard who’s French is less than passable needs to get up off their asses & order now before the dollar goes into the drink, which is bound to happen sooner or later. (Although I guess the pound could go with it…)

If I haven’t been clear enough already, for the French-impaired, if you love your Godard, the AE set is a 100% no brainer, unless the improvement in subtitling falls off after the first 8 minutes…


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:56 am
Location: Canada
In the second from last paragraph Adrian Martin writes:
Quote:
the Australian company Madman has recently committed itself to a future edition of Histoire(s) that reconstitutes its multiple layers for English-language audiences.
I am waiting to see if this edition turns out to be true before purchasing either the Gaumont or AE edition.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:33 am 
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Location: Philadelphia via Chicago
Max von Mayerling wrote:
Ok, so I am now the proud/foolish owner of both the AE and Gaumont Histoire(s) du Cinema sets.

If I haven’t been clear enough already, for the French-impaired, if you love your Godard, the AE set is a 100% no brainer, unless the improvement in subtitling falls off after the first 8 minutes…

Great post and good work. I held off on the Gaumont version, but I was able to sample it through a friend. To be honest I gave up in the first 8 minutes. I just got the AE version a few days ago and I can't wait to dig in now... =D>


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:30 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:02 pm
Location: Brooklyn, NY
I just watched the AE Histoire(s), the first time I've seen the film. I had heard so many bad things about the translation of all available versions, so my expectations were low. I ended up being pleasantly surprised. It seemed more than competently translated, and I have to say I may even prefer the amount of translating they've done to a more complete translation which is bound to distract from the already dense collage of images, text and sound. I have no doubt that I missed a lot, but even with a more complete translation, I would have missed a lot. There's so much going on in this film, any english speaker could enjoy even an untranslated version. Like the countless film, literary, art, political references, much of which I picked up on, and more of which went right over my head, the dialogue/text/narration is just one of many factors, and it would take a many, many viewings to take in everything, if it were ever possible.

I don't know french, but the on-screen text tends to be simple, and is re-used throughout the episodes, to the point that I generally didn't need the translation for it by the end of it (in fact, I've learned a little french just by watching this film). The narration tracks are generally well subtitled, but repeated phrases are generally subtitled only once, which I appreciated. I think the french film clips suffer most, but were the english clips translated into french in the french version?

To any Godard fan who is hesitant about picking this up, and especially if you've never seen this, I wholeheartedly recommend it. It's possibly my favorite Godard (after one viewing), though some sections are stronger than others. It's also more accessible than a lot of late Godard, and is such a masterful collage of editing and sound that translation becomes almost unnecessary.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:10 pm 

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:04 am
Max von Mayerling wrote:
First, the AE set has better packaging.

Wow - actually i can't believe this 'cause the Gaumont has one of the nicest packaging (in workmanship and actual grafic design) i have "ever" seen.

Regarding the subs - good to know that AE is more complete for whatever that means in the matter of such a film (i am with the previous poster). Most of the text (written & spoken) is quotation and title references so i truthfully believe that its really difficult to translate 1:1. I haven't seen the AE but can't imagine that they translated everything from the best available sources (books etcetera). Actually i think that a high percentage of the quotes (books) do not even have a literal/book english translation so there are doubts here. However, duplicating the japanese set with all the info plus subs would of course be great and a blind buy for me.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:02 pm
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Ok, let me rephrase that so that I'm not being quite so categorical. I personally prefer the AE packaging. The principal reason for this is that, as mentioned, it, like an eclipse set, has supplemental text for each disc. Approximately 2-4 paragraphs per disc of Godard's own words. This adds something for me, so I like it better than the Gaumont.

And on another note, just to be clear, there's obviously stuff that AE doesn't translate. From what I've watched so far, it mostly seems to be some of the audio borrowed from other sources (as opposed to Godard's own narration). But some of that is translated (certainly more than in the Gaumont), and I have found that to be ... helpful.

I certainly do find it to be an overwhelming experience at times. The juxtaposition of so many fragments, setting off all kinds of associations and thoughts in my little monkey brain.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:38 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:29 pm
Location: Boston MA
I have the Gaumont release, and was convinced to purchase the AE... until Ovader posted that link! Here's more of that quote:

Quote:
Talk of "multiple pathways" and the like will probably arouse an aversion in some DVD producers toward "pedagogic" or scholarly editions of films—presumably deemed a turnoff in the general marketplace, suitable for and desirable to only a small, elite, niche group. (In a parallel sphere of culture, teachers of literature complain that today’s students are increasingly resistant to reading heavily annotated editions of classic poems, plays, and books.) Often, this stingily "pragmatic" logic limits what can be conceived. It is said, for instance, that a Histoire(s) du cinéma DVD cannot be adequately subtitled in English, or indeed any language other than French, for the screen would be filled to bursting with words rendering, all at once, Godard’s voiceover narration, text printed on the screen, and also sometimes the dialogue from clips that plays underneath, or alternately, in the mix. It’s a fair enough argument—and one assumes it is precisely the rationale behind the very piecemeal subtitling currently offered to us by Gaumont. But that logic vanishes if we posit the subtitling as a series of “passes” or layers that could be called up separately—plus, as the special Japanese edition provides, another layer to identify the many quotations (of all kinds) in the work. Good news: the Australian company Madman has recently committed itself to a future edition of Histoire(s) that reconstitutes its multiple layers for English-language audiences.

Has Madman provided any more details? Is a fair reading of this passage suggest something just like AE's release, or something more akin to the Japanese but w/English subs and supporting text? It seems to me that the author is suggesting the former - simply a more complete subtitling of narration, text, and cinematic quotes (like AE) - and not a full-on annotated edition a la the Japonaise.

(I'm not certain if this is possible on DVD, but it seems to me that Blu-ray would easily support several streams of subtitles that can be turned off/on independently, not to mention little pop-ups that could annotate a specific quotation.)

Help me out here: does anyone think the Madman release will offer anything over AE's?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:42 am 

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:04 am
Rich Malloy wrote:
Help me out here: does anyone think the Madman release will offer anything over AE's?

At least for me it sounds pretty clear that they are talking about something over the AEs - and thats a copy of the Japanese release with english subs and the "stop on certain points option" to get further background info (some info on that here: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReview ... CINEMA.htm). You can google for more details on the Japanese release…kind of a multimedia thing which should be done way more often - in fact it takes much more out of the DVD medium…blah blah blah…


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 7:22 pm
I just got the Artificial Eye Histoire(s) set, and when I go to play it on my computer, in VLC Player the image is covered in digital noise and glitches, and in Media Player Classic the discs won't open at all and I get a "Copy Protect Fail" message.

If it was just one disc doing this, I'd think it was a random problem, but all three? Has anybody else had problems with these discs? Is AE putting some kind of copy protection on them that's screwing up computers?

I play DVDs on my computer all the time and never really have a problem. This is really frustrating.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:32 am 
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Location: Denmark
sevenarts wrote:
I just got the Artificial Eye Histoire(s) set, and when I go to play it on my computer, in VLC Player the image is covered in digital noise and glitches, and in Media Player Classic the discs won't open at all and I get a "Copy Protect Fail" message.

If it was just one disc doing this, I'd think it was a random problem, but all three? Has anybody else had problems with these discs? Is AE putting some kind of copy protection on them that's screwing up computers?

I play DVDs on my computer all the time and never really have a problem

I've watched all the AE Histoire(s) from my computer, and I didn't have any problems. I use Media Player Classic Home Cinema and AnyDVD HD.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:27 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:44 am
sevenarts wrote:
Has anybody else had problems with these discs?

Not with these, but I am getting the exact same errors with my Louis Malle Eclipse set. I can however watch them on another computer with an older version of VLC, which leads me to believe that the problem doesn't necessarily lie with the discs ...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:17 pm 
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For the record, I've now gotten them to work perfectly in Media Player Classic -- that was a problem with the region-coding settings on my computer, not the discs. I guess VLC doesn't like something about those discs, though.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:02 am 

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:04 am
Just for the record absolut medien will release Jean-Luc Godard: Geschichte(n) des Kinos as part of the filmedition suhrkamp - i am really impressed (to have german subtitles) and did not pick up the AE version (next to the Gaumont)! http://www.absolutmedien.de/main.php?vi ... st_item=60


edit: Suhrkamps own website says that this will come on 2 DVDs with a booklet with "materials & interviews" http://www.suhrkamp.de/titel/titel.cfm? ... get=reihen


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:56 pm 

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:04 am
Even more amazingly - it indeed looks like (as i was reported by absolutmedien via mail) that it will come in german audio! On the absolut medienhttp://www.absolutmedien.de/main.php?view=film&id=1369&list=edition&list_item=39 webpage it has all the chapters and subchapters translated into german - almost unthinkable that this has not been approved by JLG himself and here is some hope that if this will indeed come with german audio that there might as well be some new "special" feature/introduction or whatever... As far as this comes as a co-op with Suhrkamp Insel powerhouse book publisher - who knows!? They have a great renommé.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:16 am 

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:04 am
Quick check on my office computer - it looks like there is only German audio on the absolutmedien/Suhrkamp disc. If this would have been the only available release i would be pissed, no doubt. But having this alongside the Gaumont is, at least for me, quite amazing! Of course this is of no interest for non german native speakers, but on a JLG theoretical/academic side i think its well worth pointing out.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:33 am 
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Cinematheque Ontario is screening this on February 26-28 as part of The Way of the Termite: The Essay Film programme.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:20 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:11 pm
Any updates on the Australian DVD?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:44 pm 
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Coming sometime after February


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