Playing Subtitles on Discs Without Them

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swo17
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Playing Subtitles on Discs Without Them

#1 Post by swo17 » Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:14 am

Films with no English-friendly edition, but with a release that includes at least one subtitle track in another language:

Carlotta
La Cérémonie (Claude Chabrol)
A Brighter Summer Day (Edward Yang)

Gaumont
J'accuse (Roman Polanski)

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EddieLarkin
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:25 am

Re: Studio Canal / Kinowelt / Optimum

#2 Post by EddieLarkin » Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:22 pm

Finch wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:14 am
What software are you using to apply those subs to the Blu-Ray, out of interest?
My Oppo allows me to plug-in any SRT file via USB stick, which will then appear as a subtile option during disc playback (though with one very stupid drawback: if the disc has no subtitles at all, it won't let you select the USB subs either).

I use it for stuff like Solaris, where the French Potemkine disc has a new transfer that is much better than the Criterion, and thankfully comes with French subs, allowing me to load up and select the Criterion subs via USB. The Oppo then also offers a subtitle delay option so you can match the timing if necessary.

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senseabove
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Re: Studio Canal / Kinowelt / Optimum

#3 Post by senseabove » Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:37 pm

EddieLarkin wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:22 pm
My Oppo allows me to plug-in any SRT file via USB stick, which will then appear as a subtile option during disc playback (though with one very stupid drawback: if the disc has no subtitles at all, it won't let you select the USB subs either).

I use it for stuff like Solaris, where the French Potemkine disc has a new transfer that is much better than the Criterion, and thankfully comes with French subs, allowing me to load up and select the Criterion subs via USB. The Oppo then also offers a subtitle delay option so you can match the timing if necessary.
I've been hunting how to do this for AGES. I'd heard rumors that Oppos could sideload subtitles, but I could never could find any details on how! Which model Oppo do you have, and do you have to name the srt file anything in particular to get the player to see it?

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EddieLarkin
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Re: Studio Canal / Kinowelt / Optimum

#4 Post by EddieLarkin » Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:10 pm

I have the 103, I know it works with the 105, 203 and 205, but I'm not sure about earlier models.

Simply make a folder called sub, and rename the file you want to use sub.srt. Plug in the USB and it'll appear as the last subtitle option when you press the subtitle button during any disc playback. The option button will allow you to adjust the sync as well as the size, position and colour.

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hearthesilence
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Re: Studio Canal / Kinowelt / Optimum

#5 Post by hearthesilence » Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:48 pm

EddieLarkin wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:10 pm
I have the 103, I know it works with the 105, 203 and 205, but I'm not sure about earlier models.

Simply make a folder called sub, and rename the file you want to use sub.srt. Plug in the USB and it'll appear as the last subtitle option when you press the subtitle button during any disc playback. The option button will allow you to adjust the sync as well as the size, position and colour.
Good lord, this changes everything - THANK YOU.

I wish I had known this earlier - wasn't there a BD of the Film Foundation restoration of The Leopard that's not English-friendly but still in-print?

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EddieLarkin
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Re: Studio Canal / Kinowelt / Optimum

#6 Post by EddieLarkin » Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:53 pm

Looks like the French disc is still easy to come by (this is preferable to the Italian release which had crushed blacks levels).

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perkizitore
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:29 pm
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Re: Studio Canal / Kinowelt / Optimum

#7 Post by perkizitore » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:51 pm

hearthesilence wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:48 pm
EddieLarkin wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:10 pm
I have the 103, I know it works with the 105, 203 and 205, but I'm not sure about earlier models.

Simply make a folder called sub, and rename the file you want to use sub.srt. Plug in the USB and it'll appear as the last subtitle option when you press the subtitle button during any disc playback. The option button will allow you to adjust the sync as well as the size, position and colour.
Good lord, this changes everything - THANK YOU.

I wish I had known this earlier - wasn't there a BD of the Film Foundation restoration of The Leopard that's not English-friendly but still in-print?
The German one is the best by far

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senseabove
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:07 am

Re: Studio Canal / Kinowelt / Optimum

#8 Post by senseabove » Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:07 pm

My hasty testing does not seem to work on the 83, but I may not have the thumbdrive formatted correctly.

nitin
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Re: Studio Canal / Kinowelt / Optimum

#9 Post by nitin » Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:32 am

EddieLarkin wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:22 pm
My Oppo allows me to plug-in any SRT file via USB stick, which will then appear as a subtile option during disc playback (though with one very stupid drawback: if the disc has no subtitles at all, it won't let you select the USB subs either).

I use it for stuff like Solaris, where the French Potemkine disc has a new transfer that is much better than the Criterion, and thankfully comes with French subs, allowing me to load up and select the Criterion subs via USB. The Oppo then also offers a subtitle delay option so you can match the timing if necessary.
Thanks for sharing this, I had been ripping the blu ray to an mkv file and then using that with srt files on a USB. I didn’t realise you could just link them straight to the disc.

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swo17
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Re: Studio Canal / Kinowelt / Optimum

#10 Post by swo17 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:40 am

senseabove wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:07 pm
My hasty testing does not seem to work on the 83, but I may not have the thumbdrive formatted correctly.
I just got it to work playing a Blu-ray on a BDP-93! My thumbdrive is formatted in NTFS.

[post edited for clarity]

I also feel like this is worth having its own thread, to discuss solutions for other players, highlight availability of subtitle files for particular discs, and perhaps recommend alternative releases that weren't an option before

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MichaelB
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Re: Playing Subtitles on Discs Without Them

#11 Post by MichaelB » Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:40 am

nitin wrote:Thanks for sharing this, I had been ripping the blu ray to an mkv file and then using that with srt files on a USB. I didn’t realise you could just link them straight to the disc.
The initial learning curve is close to vertical, but the MKVToolNix freeware allows you to add subtitles to MKV files. It also lets you add audio tracks, which is how I have a copy of Lost Highway with Tim Lucas’ commentary attached.

(With both soundtracks and subtitles you can tweak the start point to the millisecond.)

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tenia
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Re: Playing Subtitles on Discs Without Them

#12 Post by tenia » Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:20 am

I use MKV Tool Nix for fiddling with video files' (MKV typically) tracks and it indeed works wonder when you really don't want to re-encode anything but just add or remove some options. On subs, it also allows to set tracks as default ones if you don't even want to have to activate them when starting what you want to watch.

It's quite intuitive to use on top of that - the longest thing for me was the time it took me to find this software in the first place !

I however never had to use it for sync fine-tuning so can't comment on it.

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MichaelB
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Playing Subtitles on Discs Without Them

#13 Post by MichaelB » Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:25 am

The nice thing about it is that because it doesn’t re-encode the video, it’s pretty fast, so I’m quite happy to render half a dozen files in succession with the subtitle start point adjusted by, say, 1000ms, then 500ms, then 250ms - at which point you’ve probably got the subtitle timing as accurate as it’s ever going to get without line-by-line tweaking.

(Obviously you have to get the subtitle framerate right upfront, but there are free tools like Jubler that allow you to adjust that if, say, the subtitles are 25fps and the MKV video file is 23.976fps, or indeed vice versa.)

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feihong
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Re: Playing Subtitles on Discs Without Them

#14 Post by feihong » Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:35 am

Nice. Never purchased an Oppo player. I have a cheap player called an iVid. I have always ripped the discs and synched the subtitles in VLCplayer. I've found often that the subtitles need to be substantially retimed to watch some films.

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MichaelB
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Re: Playing Subtitles on Discs Without Them

#15 Post by MichaelB » Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:39 am

feihong wrote:Nice. Never purchased an Oppo player. I have a cheap player called an iVid. I have always ripped the discs and synched the subtitles in VLCplayer. I've found often that the subtitles need to be substantially retimed to watch some films.
The two core issues are framerate (which is easy enough to adjust before trying to marry the subs up to the video) and whether the subtitles were created for exactly the same version of the film that you’re trying to marry them up to (which unavoidably involves a lot more work if this wasn’t the case).

But get the framerate and the start point right, and the chances are pretty good that it’ll work.

One thing that’s worth bearing in mind is that although it may seem nitpicky to distinguish between 24fps and 23.976fps, in practice this can mean a difference of a few seconds by the end of a feature film.

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senseabove
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Re: Studio Canal / Kinowelt / Optimum

#16 Post by senseabove » Sun Aug 22, 2021 6:57 pm

swo17 wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:40 am
I just got it to work playing a Blu-ray on a BDP-83! My thumbdrive is formatted in NTFS.
Arggggh. I've got a thumbdrive freshly formatted as FAT32 with a folder called sub containing a file called sub.srt, as well as an image and a mkv file on the thumb drive. When there's no disc in the tray and I browse the the thumb drive via the Oppo system media player, it sees the folder (with nothing in it, since it's not image, video, or audio), and the video and image files are listed and play fine. Then I put in a disc—tried both the BD corresponding to the subs and a random other DVD with at least one subtitle option—but when I try to change subtitles with the subtitle button while a movie is playing, I still only see the subtitle options that are on the disc.

I've only got Macs around the house, and in order to write to NTFS, they either require disabling some root-level system security to use the freeware or paying $20+ for some software that adds the ability. Oddly, most of what I'm seeing says that the 83 shouldn't support an NTFS thumb drive at all!

Could you do me a favor, swo, and let me know what firmware you've got on your BDP-83? And does yours have a region free mod? I bought mine secondhand, hardware modded by the previous owner, so I'm not entirely sure if it's had other firmware installed over the top, though the system info lists the most up-to-date firmware shown on the Oppo site.

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MichaelB
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Re: Playing Subtitles on Discs Without Them

#17 Post by MichaelB » Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:02 pm

I paid the $20. All my big media drives are formatted as NTFS to maximise compatibility, and not just between my Macs and my Oppo.

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senseabove
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Re: Playing Subtitles on Discs Without Them

#18 Post by senseabove » Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:16 pm

Does that also mean you've successfully used the external subs on an NTFS thumb drive with a BDP-83? Or just that you've found having NTFS-write capability useful?

This is the first thing I've ever needed NTFS write capabilities, and since I can just rip the video file raw to a thumb drive and play it via my BD player, I don't really wanna spend $20 for the sole purpose of writing .srts to a thumb drive, especially when it doesn't seem like that's really the issue, since it can see the file structure... It would've just been a nice convenience, and it might've influenced my decision of whether to keep the Oppo or sell it and go for a modern, region free UHD player whenever I do upgrade, since it'd be nice not to have a player for each region anymore.

Do any of the modern UHD players support external subs for disc playback? I happened to turn up that the latest Chinese firmware for the top-tier Panasonic player supports it, but didn't see mention of any others...

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swo17
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Re: Studio Canal / Kinowelt / Optimum

#19 Post by swo17 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:40 pm

senseabove wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 6:57 pm
Could you do me a favor, swo, and let me know what firmware you've got on your BDP-83? And does yours have a region free mod? I bought mine secondhand, hardware modded by the previous owner, so I'm not entirely sure if it's had other firmware installed over the top, though the system info lists the most up-to-date firmware shown on the Oppo site.
I stand corrected--I actually have a BDP-93. The firmware is BDP9x-57-0917. I believe that's what it came with and I've never connected it to the internet to update it. I bought it from an eBay seller ten years ago that advertised it as having been used solely to modify it to be region-free

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feihong
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Re: Playing Subtitles on Discs Without Them

#20 Post by feihong » Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:30 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:39 am
feihong wrote:Nice. Never purchased an Oppo player. I have a cheap player called an iVid. I have always ripped the discs and synched the subtitles in VLCplayer. I've found often that the subtitles need to be substantially retimed to watch some films.
The two core issues are framerate (which is easy enough to adjust before trying to marry the subs up to the video) and whether the subtitles were created for exactly the same version of the film that you’re trying to marry them up to (which unavoidably involves a lot more work if this wasn’t the case).

But get the framerate and the start point right, and the chances are pretty good that it’ll work.

One thing that’s worth bearing in mind is that although it may seem nitpicky to distinguish between 24fps and 23.976fps, in practice this can mean a difference of a few seconds by the end of a feature film.
I just use Aegisub to do my retiming. You can pinpoint the timing of the first subtitle and the last and they get proportionally readjusted. This works for nearly every set of subs I've had to re-time, with a few exceptions

The one that I've never been able to get right is my Japanese blu ray of The Spider's Stratagem. No matter how I cue the subtitles, they never remain consistent throughout the movie. It makes me wonder if the Japanese disc of the film has some slightly different editing than for other versions of the film.

Calvin
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Re: Playing Subtitles on Discs Without Them

#21 Post by Calvin » Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:13 am

There's custom firmware available for most Panasonic models that provides region-changing and external subtitle capabilities. The group charge 40 euros for it, but I went through the process earlier today and it works a treat. The subtitles appear like this and there doesn't seem to be any way to display them differently, but it's better than nothing!

I'm probably going to go on a spending spree for all those discs that seemed out of reach now!...

kekid
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Re: Playing Subtitles on Discs Without Them

#22 Post by kekid » Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:00 pm

I have been able to watch DVDs and Blu Rays that do not have English subtitles on my OPPO with subtitle file on a USB drive. However, this requires that the original disc has at least one subtitle. This has proven to be not the case for a large number of French DVDs and Blu Rays. So I would like to learn the process to apply external subtitles on DVDs and Bly Rays, from any region. I have a MacBookPro.
So the first question is, what is the right external drive for my MacBookPro that will allow me to see and create DVDs or Blu rays from any region (apart from the subtitle issue), and what software, if any, do I need, to be able to do this?
The next question is, how do I copy this DVD/Blu Ray on my hard drive (Is this what is called RIPping?)? What software do I need to do this, and what are the steps?
The third question is, now that I have the film on hard drive, and an external subtitle file (SRT), how do I apply the subtitles to the video file? What software do I need, and what are the steps?
The final question is, how do I create a physical disc (DVD or Blu Ray) from the newly created video file with subtitles. What software do I need, and what are the steps.
I apologize that this is a very long question. But it addresses the entire process, and will be, I believe, of great value to many other members, now and in future, as a reference.
Thank you very much to anyone who will take time to answer this.

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feihong
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Re: Playing Subtitles on Discs Without Them

#23 Post by feihong » Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:16 pm

Japanese discs often have no subtitle tracks, either.

The system I found effective for doing this may be a little bit out-of-date––this stuff is always changing, but at least in the past, Macs are much more limited in terms of the software available for this stuff. PC users have a lot more tools to work with.

The drive that I've seen work best is a Samsung Portable BD Writer SE-506. There are probably better ones on the market now. This one is powered by USB, plugs into a MacBook, and will read any disc I've ever seen placed in it, including BR-Rs. It has no region restrictions of its own, though when you put a region-coded DVD in the slot, the Mac DVDplayer software will autorun and tell you to change regions. You can easily override this by opening the disc in VLCplayer and then closing DVDplayer.

The process I've found most useful involves a small amount of recompression, so it isn't ideal. The steps are these: 1) rip the feature onto a hard drive using MakeMKV. 2) Retime subtitles, if necessary, using AegisSub. 3) burn new disc with new subtitle track using imElfin Total Media Converter Ultimate.

MakeMKV and AegisSub are free software, or at least, they were when I last found them. imElfin costs a bit, but you can pay by the feature (like you can pay just for blu-ray writing). I don't remember what it costs. I believe it's a subscription fee.

The compression comes in using MakeMKV. There are other ways to make an MKV out of a blu-ray feature, but I haven't seen them work well. I don't know how to use MKVToolNix––which I understand can make an MKV with little to no compression. On my system it seems to take forever to do anything, and I've never seen it succeed. You need to make an MKV of the film to burn it using imElfin--the program can duplicate a disc, but it's feature to add subtitles only works on MKV files, and––this is the other thing which would bother some people––imElfin burns the subtitles onto the picture. This involves another small moment of compression, but on my 48" screen I can't see any qualitative difference. AegisSub has tools for retiming subtitles, which I've found often needs to be done. You can proportionally retime them by keying in the timecode for the first line of subs and the last line of subs.

PC users have more options at each point in the process, including a lot more freeware. But that's the Mac process I've seen work well.

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senseabove
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Re: Playing Subtitles on Discs Without Them

#24 Post by senseabove » Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:34 pm

feihong wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:16 pm
The compression comes in using MakeMKV.
It is possible to do raw video rips of BDs with MakeMKV, if I've understood correctly—it's a "remux," taking the raw video and just putting it in a different container format without actually modifying any of the content—but it's a little unintuitive. Rather than selecting the video channel you want and extracting that specifically, you click the Backup button at the top when you're still on the drive selection screen. You need enough space to store a copy of the whole disc, but it decodes the entire disc, dumps it to a folder, and you then have each video channel as a separate file, i.e. bumpers, menu loops, the feature, all the extras, etc., each with all of their audio/subtitles options embedded, and you can just delete whatever you don't want to keep.

I've never bothered with burning things back to disc—I just throw them on a thumb-drive and plug them into my Sony—but that's how I've "added subs" to the few non-English, English unfriendly discs I've imported.

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andyli
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Re: Playing Subtitles on Discs Without Them

#25 Post by andyli » Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:05 pm

Makemkv doesn't reencode/compress anything. It just puts the content in the matroska container. That's why it's fast. I also recommend you to go the PC route instead of Mac. It simply has so many more software options and in the case one fails an alternative tool could almost always be found.

Don't bother burning anything back to disc. It's simply an out-of-date method and adds more unnecessary cost to the process. Any smart TV or player should have the ability to read and play mkv files from a USB drive these days.

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