Orlac wrote:rapta wrote:TMDaines wrote:I've seen it all now. People non-sarcastically asking for less exciting films to be released. -.-
If you're referring to what I said, then no. What I actually said was that I'd prefer if Arrow didn't do as many expensive and/or limited edition box sets as often as they have been doing. It will just lead to a lot of people missing out on some, and scalpers buying them up for resale once they're OOP. Be more sensible to spread them out at least by a few months (or do one every two months or something, if that's entirely necessary).
Yes, I feel the same. One box-set every two months is enough.
Basically what I was saying, but has now been elaborated on past my main point...but I guess if they're selling comfortably well for Arrow then they're gonna keep increasing their game until they hit a wall and some of the riskier ones really don't sell well.
TMDaines wrote:rapta wrote:TMDaines wrote:I've seen it all now. People non-sarcastically asking for less exciting films to be released. -.-
If you're referring to what I said, then no. What I actually said was that I'd prefer if Arrow didn't do as many expensive and/or limited edition box sets as often as they have been doing. It will just lead to a lot of people missing out on some, and scalpers buying them up for resale once they're OOP. Be more sensible to spread them out at least by a few months (or do one every two months or something, if that's entirely necessary).
They are employing this model to mitigate the risk on their side. I doubt an alternative would be releasing the Rivettes and Yoshidas in simple editions without first ensuring they break even with this model. Ask MoC how some of their more esoteric standalone releases worked out for them. We raved about them here but they didn't sell particularly well. At least Arrow with their limited model, unlike say Twilight Time, are still offering good value, a reasonably safe investment and a more exciting range of films. What's more, most of the stuff comes out in a non-limited form further down the line.
You say "a lot of people missing out on some" as if it is a bad thing. Why do you need to own every limited edition put into print? It'd be a sad day if my film purchasing choices were limited to the budget of Joe Bloggs. It's largely a digital product after all. If you're enough of a maniac to throw a couple of hundred pounds at scalpers, essentially for a nice slipbox and book of essays that you cannot afford, then more fool you. You can either pick up the non-limited re-release at great value (as I did with Boro) or if the material was never made available elsewhere, just grab it off the Internet. You don't have to engage with scalpers.
I understand perfectly the model they are implementing, I was simply expressing my frustration with them arriving so frequently. To put it simply, whilst I am looking to save up for the Yoshida and/or Rivette sets, they could very well announce an even more exciting set in next month's announcement, and then I'm suddenly saving up for that one instead - those other two would be put on the back-burner and might go OOP...and I'd likely miss out on one, if not both. I can't be the only one having this trouble, unless others are simply allocating all their home video budget solely on Arrow box sets (and not many of their single titles) and/or not buying much from any other labels (Eureka, BFI etc).
Of course, it hasn't happened yet - I'm not a big enough Fassbinder fan to jump at the new box set, and I can happily wait for separate re-releases of The Yakuza Papers titles - but who's to say it won't in the new year? I wouldn't be as voracious in my argument if I knew there would be at least a slimmed-down edition of the Yoshida titles, or reissues of one or two of the Rivettes, and on Blu-ray rather than just DVD.
Besides, I didn't say I needed to "own every limited edition put into print", I was being quite specific about just the Yoshida and Rivette sets and that they were limiting their availability in high-definition (not to mention all the extras and literature). This is fine when it's a more affordable title, but when it's one of the most expensive titles they've released to date, that's a different matter. Of course I wouldn't be overly distraught if they did go OOP before I could get hold of either of them, as I'm sure they'd end up releasing something equally as interesting in future (if not more so).
Again, I didn't say I would be funding any scalpers, just that I'd prefer to have more than one option, even if it just meant only one or two films from the set got a slimmed-down release. If I ever did consider buying a set from a third-party, it would have to be an all-time favourite filmmaker, and if that were the case I would already be selling whatever I could to get hold of it as soon as possible (before it had gone OOP). Perhaps this is my long-winded way of revealing neither Yoshida nor Rivette are the most important filmmakers on my radar...but that's not to say I'd still feel I missed out if they did go OOP.
Lastly, I'd much rather have hard copies of these films as they're films I'm likely to revisit, read about and think about. I do occasionally torrent some things I know will be one-watch-only, or to check them out before buying them (if I'm really not sure), but if I were to take the attitude of 'well I could just torrent it' then I may as well give up right now. And if everyone were to take that attitude, then these boutique labels should give up too.
Ribs wrote:Also Arrow have said *if* Yoshida or Rivette sells out they will be rereleased, but that it would be on DVD. It wouldn't be going out of print.
Thinking about it some more, I'd be happier letting Rivette slip by and picking those up on DVD eventually rather than missing out on a worldwide exclusive like the Yoshida set (and I'm actually a bigger fan of Japanese cinema, especially of that era). I think I've just decided my priorities in regards to these two sets - though I was tipping towards Yoshida anyway, purely because of the lower asking price.
tenia wrote:TMDaines wrote:Ask MoC how some of their more esoteric standalone releases worked out for them. We raved about them here but they didn't sell particularly well.
I think there is a reason why their line-up has become a bit (to say the least) less esoteric than before. Sure, many silent films having new restorations have been released, so you need some others to keep feeding the label, but still, there is quite a world between a Madame Dubarry BD and a Man of the West one. Comparing 2014 and 2015 clearly shows a difference in the type of titles being released, and I would be surprised sales hasn't anything to do with it.
TMDaines wrote:At least Arrow with their limited model are still offering good value,
TMDaines wrote:You don't have to engage with scalpers.
I think that's my main issue with those complaining about it. I understand how it constraints the time window within which you need to get it or you'll miss it. It IS a constraint because you simply can't push your purchase indefinitely.
On the other end, the prices for these LE are indeed usually quite good (the Rivette was a steal with its early bird price, the Fassbinder even more) and they're announced way early enough to help anybody saving money for this.
The most recent exemple is the Hellraiser LE : I pre-ordered mine on July 8th, and it sold out only 2 weeks prior to its release date. It means that anybody who wanted to buy it at a proper price only needed to save £4 per week. So it's silly doing the blame game and shifting it on Arrow.
Sure, I'd like to be able to build my purchase time table without having the feel it has to be built around expensive sets release dates (it will be for me for December because of the Fassbinder set).
As for scalpers, as long as there are people willing to pay £100 for a 200p book and an numbered outer case (Boro set) or a 200p book, an outer case and a bonus disc, why shouldn't they take advantage ?
There was a French humorist (Coluche) who used to say "One need to remember : it only needs us stop buying them for those to stop selling" ("Quand on pense qu'il suffirait d'arrêter d'en acheter pour que ça arrête de se vendre").
I was wondering if that shift was to do with sales too, but it's also based on studio/distributor deals, and the big last-minute deal with Paramount only increased this year's frequency of high-profile titles. It could just be a coincidence, but it could also be like you said: the need for stronger sellers. I've certainly bought more titles on release day than I did last year, but that could also be due to my increased interest in the label.
As for 'time windows', obviously it would be unfair to complain about the frequency of these high-priced box sets if one wasn't planning on actually buying said sets. You may have calculated your pre-order of the Hellraiser set but my complaint was concerning the increasingly regular announcements of box sets (almost every month now), and more specifically of Arrow Academy sets that will not see separate reissues on Blu-ray (only on DVD, if at all). Thought it was worth pointing out the difference as it makes it sound like I was complaining about box sets in general.
And as for the practice of scalping, sure you can see why they do it but that's a completely different issue. In the case of Borowczyk, it's quite bizarre as you can easily get about 90% of the content from that set - give or take a few percent - in the standalone editions released concurrently. And with Hellraiser and Videodrome, other than the booklets, it's only the extra disc which the biggest fans would have jumped on at the quickest opportunity (whilst I'm personally happy to wait for the standalone edition of Videodrome, for example). My concern is that these Academy sets - with the exception of Fassbinder - will turn out like MoC's Late Mizoguchi and become the only way to get hold of hard copies of these films in high-definition (other than Carlotta's Out 1 release). Though unlike the Late Mizoguchi set, which took roughly 6 months to go OOP, these might sell out within a couple of months.