Major Dundee

Discuss releases from Arrow and the films on them.

Moderator: yoloswegmaster

Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
DarkImbecile
Ask me about my visible cat breasts
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:24 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Major Dundee

#1 Post by DarkImbecile » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:21 pm

Image

THE SCREEN STRETCHES TO NEW HORIZONS TO TELL THE EPIC STORY OF THE SOUTHWEST!

After making his first bonafide classic in Ride the High Country, director Sam Peckinpah took a step towards the epic with Major Dundee. The film would, in many ways, define the rest of his career both on screen and off, as the drama behind the camera matched the action in front of it.

Charlton Heston stars as Major Amos Dundee, a vainglorious Union Cavalry officer, who mounts an expedition to hunt down Apache war chief Sierra Charriba. Building his own army of criminals, ex-slaves and Confederate POWs - among them one Captain Ben Tyreen (Richard Harris), whose intense former friendship with Dundee is tainted with a sense of betrayal on both sides - Dundee heads into Mexico, his eye fixed firmly on a last shot at greatness.

Legendarily acerbic, Major Dundee would be the first time that Peckinpah had a movie taken away from him. While a director’s cut may be lost to us, this Limited Edition shows us the thrilling, morally complex epic that Peckinpah was aiming for. Beautifully shot and with a stellar supporting cast including James Coburn, Warren Oates, and L.Q. Jones, it remains a stunning achievement and an essential experience for anyone interested in the life and cinema of “Bloody Sam.”

TWO-DISC LIMITED EDITION BLU-RAY CONTENTS
  • The 136-minute Extended Version of the film from a 4K scan, as well as the original 122-minute Theatrical Version
  • 60-page perfect bound booklet featuring new writing by Farran Nehme, Roderick Heath and Jeremy Carr plus select archive material
  • Limited edition packaging featuring newly commissioned artwork by Tony Stella
  • Fold out poster featuring original and newly commissioned artwork by Tony Stella
DISC ONE - EXTENDED VERSION
  • High Definition Blu-ray (1080p) presentation from a 4K scan by Sony Pictures
  • DTS-HD MA 5.1 surround audio with new score by Christopher Caliendo
  • Lossless original mono audio with original score by Daniele Amfitheatrof
  • Optional English subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing
  • Audio commentary with Nick Redman, David Weddle, Garner Simmons, Paul Seydor
  • Audio commentary by historian and critics Glenn Erickson & Alan K. Rode
  • Audio commentary by historian and critic Glenn Erickson
  • Moby Dick on Horseback, a brand new visual essay by David Cairns
  • Passion & Poetry: The Dundee Odyssey, a feature length documentary about the making of Major Dundee by Mike Siegel, featuring James Coburn, Senta Berger, Mario Adorf, L.Q. Jones, R.G. Armstrong, Gordon Dawson
  • Passion & Poetry: Peckinpah Anecdotes, nine actors talk about working with legendary director Sam Peckinpah, featuring Kris Kristofferson, Ernest Borgnine, James Coburn, David Warner, Ali MacGraw, L.Q. Jones, Bo Hopkins, R.G. Armstrong, Isela Vega
  • Mike Siegel: About the Passion & Poetry Project, in which filmmaker Mike Siegel talks about his beginnings and his ongoing historical project about director Sam Peckinpah
  • Extensive stills galleries, featuring rare on set, behind the scenes, and marketing materials
  • 2005 re-release trailer
DISC TWO - THEATRICAL VERSION (LIMITED EDITION EXCLUSIVE)
  • High Definition Blu-ray (1080p) presentation from a 2K scan
  • Lossless original mono audio
  • Optional English subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing
  • Riding for a Fall, a vintage behind the scenes featurette
  • Extended/deleted scenes
  • Silent Outtakes
  • Select extended/deleted scenes and outtakes with commentary by historian and critic Glenn Erickson giving context on how they were intended to appear in Peckinpah’s vision of the film
  • Original US, UK and German theatrical trailers
  • Stills gallery

User avatar
Finch
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: Major Dundee

#2 Post by Finch » Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:59 pm

I've never seen the film before but loved almost all the Peckinpahs I've seen yet (especially the longer cut of Pat Garett). How much do the 14 minutes added improve on the theatrical cut (which I understand was another studio botch job)?

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Major Dundee

#3 Post by domino harvey » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:26 pm

I only ever watched the longer version, but didn't get much out of it (but you appear to love Peckinpah more than me, so YMMV). Here are my not entirely comprehensive thoughts from the Western List Project
domino harvey wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:18 pm

Major Dundee (Sam Peckinpah 1965) More like minor Dundee, amirite. Richard Harris does his best vamping through this often incomprehensible mess, but he can hardly save the day against these insurmountable odds. I know the film was butchered and is presented in a sort of Scotch-taped composition here, but I'm not sure it was ever much of a production to begin with. Heston does his best impression of a constipated owl.

User avatar
hearthesilence
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
Location: NYC

Re: Major Dundee

#4 Post by hearthesilence » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:30 pm

Finch wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:59 pm
I've never seen the film before but loved almost all the Peckinpahs I've seen yet (especially the longer cut of Pat Garett). How much do the 14 minutes added improve on the theatrical cut (which I understand was another studio botch job)?
The story is supposed to be easier to follow. I think the score's different too.

I'll have to check this out. I wasn't a fan of the posthumous "restored cut" of Pat Garrett but I do love the extended cut Peckinpah kept for himself (even if they didn't re-instate a key scene that he chopped out of his print in order to put it in a TV broadcast).

User avatar
knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: Major Dundee

#5 Post by knives » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:49 pm

I like Pechinpah a bit, but the film definitely feels belabored in its long cut and for me felt like a stumble.

beamish14
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 3:07 pm

Re: Major Dundee

#6 Post by beamish14 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:19 pm

hearthesilence wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:30 pm
Finch wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:59 pm
I've never seen the film before but loved almost all the Peckinpahs I've seen yet (especially the longer cut of Pat Garett). How much do the 14 minutes added improve on the theatrical cut (which I understand was another studio botch job)?


The story is supposed to be easier to follow. I think the score's different too.


Correct. Peckinpah hated the original score, but frankly, I think it works better than the restoration one. It's worth noting that he also hated the music Bob Dylan made for Pat Garrett, hence you never hear "Knockin' on Heaven's Door" in full.

User avatar
hearthesilence
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
Location: NYC

Re: Major Dundee

#7 Post by hearthesilence » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:56 pm

beamish14 wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:19 pm
It's worth noting that he also hated the music Bob Dylan made for Pat Garrett, hence you never hear "Knockin' on Heaven's Door" in full.
I noticed in the posthumous cut that they re-edited it so that the verses would play in the film, but as much as I like the song, it's way too on-the-nose to hear those words spell out what you can infer on-screen. In fact, it's so literal, it does both the song and scene a disservice, by limiting the song to play-by-play (hearing it alone suggests a story far beyond what can be read on a lyric sheet) and closing off anything else that could be going through the two characters' minds as one of them slowly dies.

User avatar
Finch
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: Major Dundee

#8 Post by Finch » Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:45 pm

Thank you all for your comments, guys. Think I'll try viewing both cuts before committing to a buy.

User avatar
Rayon Vert
Green is the Rayest Color
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:52 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Major Dundee

#9 Post by Rayon Vert » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:30 pm

I presume this is an upgrade over the Twilight Time release - can anyone confirm?

User avatar
deathbird
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:19 am

Re: Major Dundee

#10 Post by deathbird » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:06 pm

Rayon Vert wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:30 pm
I presume this is an upgrade over the Twilight Time release - can anyone confirm?
Well, the cover art is an improvement

User avatar
dwk
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm

Re: Major Dundee

#11 Post by dwk » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:38 pm

Rayon Vert wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:30 pm
I presume this is an upgrade over the Twilight Time release - can anyone confirm?
I'm not sure if the theatrical cut is from a newer master, but the extended cut on the Arrow is. The extended version in the TT release only has the rescore by Christopher Caliendo, while the arrow has both scores. (Arrow's also has a lot more special features.)

User avatar
ChunkyLover
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:22 pm

Re: Major Dundee

#12 Post by ChunkyLover » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:57 pm

dwk wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:38 pm
Rayon Vert wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:30 pm
I presume this is an upgrade over the Twilight Time release - can anyone confirm?
I'm not sure if the theatrical cut is from a newer master, but the extended cut on the Arrow is.
The extended cut is not a newer master. It will be the same 4K scan that Sony has used for decades at this point.

User avatar
JamesF
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:36 pm

Re: Major Dundee

#13 Post by JamesF » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:28 am

dwk wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:38 pm
The extended version in the TT release only has the rescore by Christopher Caliendo, while the arrow has both scores. (Arrow's also has a lot more special features.)
I’m fairly certain this is just an error in the announcement and each cut has its unique score as per other releases.

I’m not producing this one so don’t know all the ins and outs, but I believe this has a Mike Siegel featurette not on any other releases, and a couple of other things are awaiting confirmation.

User avatar
colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

Re: Major Dundee

#14 Post by colinr0380 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:32 am

Here's the 1994 Moviedrome introduction to the film, which notes that the 136 minute 'extended cut' is the studio cut version that was originally released in US cinemas and that the mythical 'original version' of the film before studio tampering was just over 150 minutes. The alternate 122 minute version included here is apparently the UK theatrical version that was cut down even further, although all the UK television showings of Major Dundee since that Moviedrome screening have been of the 'extended cut' of the film.

I quite like Major Dundee with the issues noted of the longeurs being essential to capturing the ambivalence Dundee begins to feel towards taking down the Apache enemy who has been built up so much as the only person in his way of glory. Its a film all about the conflict between someone aiming for a great triumph and successfully marshalling everyone against a single (overly) mythologised foe whilst the events of the film itself, from the warring factions (including executing deserters almost causing a mutiny), the love affair and Dundee's own spin into an alcoholic bender post-injury, all conspire to taint, or at least distract from, his single-minded quest.

With the final irony that the 'victory' ends up being rather throwaway and an empty and hollow one, with Charriba being 'just a man' at the end, easy to kill in body (his death even seeming throwaway) even if now he will forever haunt Dundee, although Dundee was haunted long before by the 'idea' of the big bad guy. In fact its a film where the criminals, slaves and Confederate prisoners press-ganged into service eventually seem happier in defeat and subjugation than the humourless Dundee does in whipping them onward to victory. That dark take on a cavalry film probably felt even more shocking in a time closer to the John Ford trilogy that it feels made in response to, and I wonder if that as much as the longeurs caused the studio to step in to try and salvage it. (This film with its under the radar, assassination mission, barely politically legitimate incursions across the border in the name of justice and righteous retribution set up came especially strongly to mind a few years ago during the second Gulf War and tracking down of Saddam Hussein. You could probably do a really good Israel-set remake of it too)

In other words its a great Peckinpah film (featuring maybe the best Charlton Heston role in a Coriolanus-style part) entirely within his cynical (some might say realist!) sensibilities, and perhaps made all the greater by its studio mangling which only ends up confirming Peckinpah's point more clearly by tying him in closer to his flawed and compromised main character in pyrrhic victory.
Last edited by colinr0380 on Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:32 am, edited 7 times in total.

User avatar
Feego
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:30 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Major Dundee

#15 Post by Feego » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:33 am

JamesF wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:28 am
dwk wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:38 pm
The extended version in the TT release only has the rescore by Christopher Caliendo, while the arrow has both scores. (Arrow's also has a lot more special features.)
I’m fairly certain this is just an error in the announcement and each cut has its unique score as per other releases.
Actually, the original Sony DVD from 2005 included both scores on the extended version, as outlined in both DVD Beaver's review and Glenn Erickson's review. Glenn Erickson's reviews of the Austrian Blu-ray and the Imprint Blu-ray also confirm that those editions feature both scores on the longer cut as well. Only Twlight Time dropped the ball.

User avatar
dwk
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm

Re: Major Dundee

#16 Post by dwk » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:45 am

ChunkyLover wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:57 pm
The extended cut is not a newer master. It will be the same 4K scan that Sony has used for decades at this point.
Thanks for the clarification, I glanced at the Blu-ray.com review for the TT disc and saw no mention of a 4K transfer in either the review or the scan of the back cover and assumed the 4K transfer was made after that release.
Last edited by dwk on Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ChunkyLover
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:22 pm

Re: Major Dundee

#17 Post by ChunkyLover » Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:50 am

JamesF wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:28 am
I’m not producing this one so don’t know all the ins and outs, but I believe this has a Mike Siegel featurette not on any other releases, and a couple of other things are awaiting confirmation.
If you're referring to "Mike Siegel: About the Passion & Poetry Project" that was on the German and Australia Blus. So far the only new extra is the David Cairns visual essay. I wish the isolated score tracks would be included just to make the release even more complete extras-wise.

User avatar
Rayon Vert
Green is the Rayest Color
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:52 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Major Dundee

#18 Post by Rayon Vert » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:02 am

That's also what led me to ask the question. Was 4K not a "thing" yet in 2013 and so reviewers weren't mentioning it?

User avatar
JamesF
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:36 pm

Re: Major Dundee

#19 Post by JamesF » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:37 am

I’ve just checked the disc spec the authoring house is working with and it does indeed have both scores on the Extended Cut disc. My mistake!

User avatar
Maltic
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:36 am

Re: Major Dundee

#20 Post by Maltic » Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:30 pm

ChunkyLover wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:50 am
JamesF wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:28 am
I’m not producing this one so don’t know all the ins and outs, but I believe this has a Mike Siegel featurette not on any other releases, and a couple of other things are awaiting confirmation.
If you're referring to "Mike Siegel: About the Passion & Poetry Project" that was on the German and Australia Blus. So far the only new extra is the David Cairns visual essay. I wish the isolated score tracks would be included just to make the release even more complete extras-wise.
Had he not passed away late last year, I sort of assume Arrow would've commissioned a new commentary with Stephen Prince - as they did for the Alfredo Garcia release.

I know some people like them, but I find the Redman/Seydor/Webble/Simmons quartet hard to take. Too many lofty appraisals of "Sam" as an artist and a homeboy. (Jim Kitses, in the updated version of Horizons West, calls them "collaborators in his romantic myth.")

Prince's book and his commentaries are free of the idolatry, even though he offers a well-argued defence of Peckinpah's work against the common criticisms.

User avatar
ChunkyLover
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:22 pm

Re: Major Dundee

#21 Post by ChunkyLover » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:21 pm

It'd be neat if "Noon Wine" would be included as an extra (that seems more appropriate appearing on something like "Major Dundee" more than "The Killer Elite").

M Sanderson
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:43 am

Re: Major Dundee

#22 Post by M Sanderson » Sat May 01, 2021 4:49 am

So how was the old restoration?

And can anyone clarify for certain whether this is or isn’t a new restoration?

Already pre ordered, and feel like reading Kitses again in preparation.

Also, is anyone anywhere working on Blu ray restorations or 4ks of Wild Bunch and Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid?

User avatar
ChunkyLover
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:22 pm

Re: Major Dundee

#23 Post by ChunkyLover » Sat May 01, 2021 3:39 pm

M Sanderson wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 4:49 am
So how was the old restoration?

And can anyone clarify for certain whether this is or isn’t a new restoration?
It'll be the same master that Sony has had since the DVD release.

M Sanderson
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:43 am

Re: Major Dundee

#24 Post by M Sanderson » Thu May 06, 2021 7:46 am

I thought so. So, basically we can expect another very good presentation of the film but aren’t going to be blown away by a new scan.

User avatar
Drucker
Your Future our Drucker
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am

Re: Major Dundee

#25 Post by Drucker » Thu May 06, 2021 9:43 am

ChunkyLover wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 3:39 pm
M Sanderson wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 4:49 am
So how was the old restoration?

And can anyone clarify for certain whether this is or isn’t a new restoration?
It'll be the same master that Sony has had since the DVD release.
Sorry where are you getting this from? The specs outline that these are 4k and 2k restorations (presumably the same editions that were on the Twilight Time blu), but certainly more recent than a DVD master.

Post Reply