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 Post subject: Ronin
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 10:39 am 
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Brand new 4K restoration of the film from the original camera negative produced by Arrow Video exclusively for this release, supervised and approved by director of photography Robert Fraisse
High Definition Blu-ray (1080p) and Standard Definition DVD presentations
Original English 5.1 audio (lossless on the Blu-ray Disc)
Optional English subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing
Audio commentary by director John Frankenheimer
Brand new video interview with director of photography Robert Fraisse
Paul Joyce documentary on Robert De Niro
Ronin: Filming in the Fast Lane, an archival behind-the-scenes featurette
Through the Lens, an archival interview with Robert Fraisse
The Driving of Ronin, an archival featurette on the film s legendary car stunts
Natascha McElhone: An Actor s Process, an archival interview with the actress
Composing the Ronin Score, an archival interview with composer Elia Cmiral
In the Ronin Cutting Room, an archival interview with editor Tony Gibbs
Venice Film Festival interviews with Robert De Niro, Jean Reno and Natascha McElhone
Alternate ending
Theatrical trailer
Reversible sleeve featuring original and newly commissioned artwork
FIRST PRESSING ONLY: Collector s booklet illustrated by Chris Malbon, featuring new writing on the film by critic Travis Crawford


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 11:11 am 
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No extras with Mamet, too bad. I'd love to hear him talk about this in the context of his overall script doctoring work


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:10 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:38 am
Still, an unexpected surprise!!


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT
They actually hinted at it on April 1st.


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:02 am
I know RONIN has its fans, and I haven't seen it since the theatrical release, but am I wrong in remembering that every second of this was terrible? I'm being serious. Upon re-watchings, my opinion on films evolve all the time, but I sincerely can't remember anything in this film that makes me think, oh maybe I was wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 3:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
I wouldn't go as far as terrible, but definitely not good.


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 4:02 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:32 am
I'm going to go ahead and admit that there are a couple times a year that I need to watch a 7 minute Frankenheimer car chase through Paris with 150 stunts, 300 stunt drivers and 2000 extras. I'm not proud, its probably an LA driver catharsis.


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:50 am
Location: Toronto, ON
I may be in the minority (although it still has a 7.3 rating on IMDb), but I really enjoyed Ronin on first viewing many years ago. On second viewing it wasn't as exciting as I remembered but still a very good film. Having stars such as De Niro and Reno in the cast helps, and the car chase scenes in Nice, France are great (even by modern standards).

I have to say I am pleasantly surprised Arrow have been able to pick up what I would consider as a fairly high-profile, big budget film. It will be a purchase I really look forward to!!


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 4:47 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:32 am
I would have as well if I hadn't finally picked up the current blu ray about 20 days ago after holding off for years. First world problems.....


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 11:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:38 am
Yeah, I very recently picked it up too. Otherwise they could have signed me up as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 9:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:24 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM
I'm generally opposed to George Lucas-style CGI revisionism, but there's a shot near the beginning of the main car chase when a car or two is spinning their wheels and produce the fakest looking late-90s-CGI tire smoke ever seen. If they were to advertise that they'd cleaned that up, I'd have to consider being flexible on my principles.


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 9:46 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:35 am
if its as bad as you say I'd be against adding anything to replace it.

There is this notorious one from Twin Peaks where Maddy sees Bob in a carpet. In the home video versions I have seen, you see everything except Bob.

Other folks see this "look what I can do with a computer!" imagery


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 11:32 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT
These things need to stay put so we NEVER FORGET.


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 1:07 pm 
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DarkImbecile wrote:
I'm generally opposed to George Lucas-style CGI revisionism, but there's a shot near the beginning of the main car chase when a car or two is spinning their wheels and produce the fakest looking late-90s-CGI tire smoke ever seen. If they were to advertise that they'd cleaned that up, I'd have to consider being flexible on my principles.
NOW WITH REALISTIC TIRE SMOKE would look great on a sticker.


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 3:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:32 am
I'm concerned it would bring a whole new meaning to the tire smoke. Perhaps the newest generation would relate to the theme of smoking tires, but it would turn off a generation that felt a certain nostalgia for the tires smoking the old fashioned way.

Many (and I am one) revered the notion that the tires were part of a broader cultural zeitgeist of inauthentic tire smoking as it represented falseness of authority, and an alienation from properly smoking tires.

And let's not start the argument about whether the tires smoked first, or whether the smoke started before the tires.


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 3:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:24 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Clearly there just needs to be two versions of the film included in the release, and then everyone can choose sides and bicker about which better represents the director's intent; seems ripe for a couple of bonus features and maybe a commentary track as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 3:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:32 am
Agreed, at least for a start. But do we really have two completely different movies at this point? Can it hardly even be called Ronin once Frankenheimer's vision is so wildly bifurcated?


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:43 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:57 pm
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Hey, everybody, smoking is bad for people as well as tires.


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:31 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:09 am
This reminds me that Casino starts off with an absolutely horrific jump cut to try to hide that the driver of a car which explodes is replaced with a dummy. I hope Scorsese was being intentionally derisive, because it is a miserable excuse for a practical effect.


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:46 am 
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Location: Minnesota
Sure, there are some clumsy things about this film, like the narration at the end or the romance subplot. For me, the film is worth it for the Mametspeak embedded into the shorthand spy jargon, especially in the subplot involving Sean Bean's all-talk IRA soldier. That could have been a very silly plot development where he returns at the end to settle a score; however, the film just makes an example out of Bean's character and dismisses him. I really respected that choice.


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:32 am
Yes, I agree. And also I like how De Niro is played more realistically as can be done in a Hollywood action film, where he has a quietness about himself because he's the real deal (as well as Jonathan Pryce), i.e. loudness is phoniness.


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:08 pm 
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Guess I'll just have to watch it again, but I seem to remember everything about it rubbing me the wrong way, including the much-heralded car chase, which always struck me as overly-staged and false (especially in comparison to something like The French Connection, or even Frankenheimer's own, less-successful-but-still-superior-to-this French Connection II), where all the on-coming cars, for example, were perfectly spaced apart to allow for very convenient zig-zagging. I know that's an action movie trope and you just kinda-hafta go with it, but it's still a trope.

The plot and depth of character all felt very much the same to me; convenient and unthrilling in their zig-zagging.

But like I said, I'm often wrong, even in my own mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:32 am
No, that's fair. This is definitely well-heeled trope, but its pedigree makes it less irritating, sometimes even charming trope all the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:56 pm 
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I liked this one as well. My brother and I caught it on a whim at the theater. We hadn't even heard of it but saw the poster with De Niro and Reno. Then seeing the rest of the cast in the poster credits and that Frankenheimer directed it we thought "why the hell not" and bought tickets. I think I agree with all of the criticisms against it but I still had fun and thought the car chases were great. I also liked the throwaway Bean subplot and the interactions between Reno and De Niro. I also liked the (fairly obvious, admittedly) plotting and Skarsgard's performance at the end
[Reveal] Spoiler:
when he slowly realizes he may not have clearly thought through how he was going to sell the case.


I haven't watched it in a while so I'm looking forward to this.

I think this a big coup for Arrow, though. I recall it being very popular on video, at least with those around me, so I hope it's a decent seller for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Ronin
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:38 am 
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I watched for the first time the movie through the Arrow BD, and it turned out to be relatively good, while still having obvious flaws.
First, it's that despite the visible care given to the movie local setup and identities, it's still feel a Hollywood studio movie : oh it's in France ? Let's have people drink coffee on-screen every 10 minutes !
Let's still have obvious implausible journeys between 2 points (I still have no idea how they join from the villa to the Vieux Nice the way it's shown in the movie) ! Let's have Irish accents but use Scottish expression. And how Skasgard end up a story up in the Arles' arena ??
It's also a particularly convoluted movie, with lots and lots of exposition for not so much action sequences. Sure, you have a 7 min car chase, but you also have Reno and De Niro sitting in a bar drinking coffee for as much time.

Still, it felt slick and old school and efficient, because the talent in front of and behind the camera are showing, even if the script isn't always perfect, even if the movie is too complex for its own good, even if it ends up being too long. I always heard about the movie being pretty much terrible and it certainly was much better than this reputation, though it certainly is far from being a masterpiece. I especially liked how it never felt like it was over-doing things : it's not overly leaning on death shots, secondary characters aren't shown in a extremely obvious manner (I had to go back in the movie to remember who was that guy in the crowd pointing Pryce out at the very end). It doesn't make it easy for the viewer.


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