The Wire

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flyonthewall2983
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#51 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:39 am

Belmondo wrote:Final episode - No spoilers

Very satisfying ending; none of the abruptness of "The Sopranos". The many plot threads and characters are brought to a conclusion and we see that it all will continue to go on in Baltimore pretty much as before. We just won't see it.

Nicely done.
I just finished watching season 5 on DVD and have to agree there. The lives have changed but they went on.

"Let's go home."

I just gotta put this question out there, because the show warranted enough ground to be compared to it's successor. This or Homicide?

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Polybius
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#52 Post by Polybius » Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:08 am

The extra leeway that HBO provided and the lack of a subpar last season (and no ill-fitting cast members, like Jon Seda or Michael Michelle) give The Wire a very slight edge.

Two brilliant landmarks of what the form is capable of.

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#53 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:29 pm

Your points are certainly justified. It's clear now (to me, at least) that NBC treated Homicide like the red-headed stepchild of Law & Order. I followed the last 3-4 seasons, and was really saddened that it was canceled. At least the television movie (which is available on YouTube in it's entirety...for now) that came out the year after the show got the ax from the network tied up some loose ends of the show. I also make a point of it to catch the reruns daily on WGN.

Last night I watched the season premiere of CSI and the first episode of Life On Mars. Both had their strong points, but after taking in the final episodes of The Wire they both (especially the latter) seemed pretty amateurish in comparison.

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denti alligator
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#54 Post by denti alligator » Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:55 pm

So I'm the only one who feels the last season of The Wire was sub-par?

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Polybius
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#55 Post by Polybius » Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:16 am

Sub-Wire par is the equivalent of the best season of nearly every dramatic show ever aired.

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#56 Post by jbeall » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:53 pm

I felt it was sub-par until the last two episodes, but season 5 was also coming off the all-time high, IMHO, of season 4, which is simply phenomenal.
But yeah, McNulty's scheme was a little too unbelievable to me, and they needed to develop the newspaper angle more.

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denti alligator
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#57 Post by denti alligator » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:58 pm

For me it was a big letdown, maybe in part because season four was so damn good. But season three was also slightly weaker, and still managed to inspire. This last season was simply uninspired. Oh well, we'll still always have those first four seasons.

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#58 Post by Mise En Scene » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:53 pm

denti alligator wrote:Was I the only one who was totally disappointed by the fifth season? This was by far the weakest season and really felt almost like a different show. None of the complexity of the earlier seasons, either in terms of character development or plot. The newspaper subplot seemed very week and hardly revealed anything about the workings of the press that isn't completely trite. There were very few moments that packed the power of any of the earlier episodes, including the relatively weak third season.
The workings of the press shown in Season 5 maybe trite, but they are, according to David Simon, the factors as to why the media is missing huge city issues that it's missing. If a fresh or original take on the media doesn't portray what Season 5 is saying but a trite treatment does, for the sake of theme, go with triteness. The factors to the issue are still the factors to the issue, hackneyed or not.

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#59 Post by Mise En Scene » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:02 pm

flyonthewall2983 wrote:I just gotta put this question out there, because the show warranted enough ground to be compared to it's successor. This or Homicide?
I'm a fan of Homicide: LOTS, but I go with The Wire by a huge margin because the latter does more - it's a dense socioeconomic and political portrait of a city. Even on the level of appreciation for the procedural, I'll go with The Wire as I prefer a serial structure over traditional episodic given that what's being compared are both of high quality.

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#60 Post by Mise En Scene » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:16 pm

jbeall wrote:I felt it was sub-par until the last two episodes, but season 5 was also coming off the all-time high, IMHO, of season 4, which is simply phenomenal.
But yeah, McNulty's scheme was a little too unbelievable to me, and they needed to develop the newspaper angle more.
I'm not sure in what way you found it unbelievable, but at first felt a similar sentiment. However, as I thought about it, Hamsterdam went on unbeknownst to police brass and city hall so I found it plausible that McNulty's scheme could go on until it was exposed somehow. Also, the medical examiner gave McNulty the science behind it.

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zedz
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#61 Post by zedz » Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:53 pm

My issues with the last season, which I've just finished watching, weren't so much about the implausibility or triteness of certain plot elements, but with their excessive convenience.

I actually got a whiff of this at the end of Season Four (which, when focussed on the kids, was, I agree, one of the strongest of the show) - the machinations to get all the regular characters 'back into position' for the final act seemed a little too blunt, and it made me realise that, for example, McNulty's change of attitude in that series had never really been developed beyond a simple plot manoeuvre.

[SPOILERS BELOW - is there a statute of limitations of spoilers? I can't imagine many interested parties have been slower than me at catching up!]

The serial killer stuff in Season 5 must have sounded like a great idea at the time (and maybe it would have been a great idea for another show or for a film), but it did lurch into the obvious and schematic on the screen, with scenes you could see coming a mile off (the 'pointed' FBI profile; Greggs interviewing the distraught families). That issue is even more apparent with the eleventh-hour 'copycat' aspect. Again, you can imagine that this would have sounded really cool in a story conference (it bangs - rather obviously - on some big themes as well as neatly tying up the unruly plotline), but it was rather embarrassing shoehorned in as a five-minute deus ex machina.

Unlike many, I was no big fan of the concluding episodes, again because of that sense that the characters were being fairly obviously manoeuvred around to deliver predetermined ironies and resolutions, accompanied by considerable huffing and puffing to give every vaguely major character from the past series some face-time and a closing cadence (perfect? plagal? interrupted?). That culminating montage was particularly de trop in this regard. Sometimes resolutions can be so 'satisfying' that they go into the red.

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#62 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:24 pm

I must say the most entertaining part of the whole faux serial-killer plot was watching Bunk act disapproving of what McNulty (and ultimately Freamon and Sydnor) are up to, but keeping it secret from the brass. All that lead up to what was one of my favorite lines "This shit is like war, ain't it? Easy to get in, hell to get out of".

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#63 Post by denti alligator » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:29 pm

zedz wrote:Unlike many, I was no big fan of the concluding episodes, again because of that sense that the characters were being fairly obviously manoeuvred around to deliver predetermined ironies and resolutions, accompanied by considerable huffing and puffing to give every vaguely major character from the past series some face-time and a closing cadence (perfect? plagal? interrupted?). That culminating montage was particularly de trop in this regard. Sometimes resolutions can be so 'satisfying' that they go into the red.
You hit the nail on the head. The last episodes were contrived. Look, Marlow can't help being a gangster! Look who's the next Omar! The next Bubs!

Just didn't work. Glad to have seasons 1-4, though, which I will rewatch more than once.

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#64 Post by Mise En Scene » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:35 pm

I think the series' narrative model, Greek tragedy, and view on institutions have led to the predetermined and cyclical outcome of the characters and city.

Given that, for those that found Season 5 a misstep or misfire, how could have the writing still kept with the series' views yet not come of as predetermined, obvious, and/or convenient? How could they have portrayed a cyclical nature without it being too tidy? I do know that they should not have repeated the opening McNulty-Judge Phelan dialogue in the Sydnor-Phelan scene and not have Michael use a shotgun (might as well have dressed him in a trench coat). I ask because I do agree to a certain degree with Zedz and denti alligator, but I don't know how I would've "fixed" it for the most part. Well, no, actually I kinda know, they could've still made it cyclical, but just not so obvious to the tiniest detail.

I also think the serial killer story was poorly written. I think the series could have still explored the theme of the media missing the city issues without the serial killer-fabulist storyline, but I don't know what story would've worked.

I definitely think doing ten instead of twelve or thirteen episodes hurt Season 5. It's a shame that the final season which I like more than most but do not love couldn't match the high standard set by Season 1 through 4. Though, I think anything following Season 4, one of the finest works of cinema/tv of the past 25 years, would be a let down. However, if there were one show that had the potential to pull off a great follow up, it was this one.

For kicks, my season rankings from best to worst: 4, 1, 2 & 3 (tie), 5.

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denti alligator
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#65 Post by denti alligator » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:37 pm

I see what you mean, but this was weak writing all around, and the media angle was just too simplistic.

My faves: 4 & 2 (tie for best), then 1, then 3, then 5.

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Polybius
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#66 Post by Polybius » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:03 am

Mise En Scene wrote:For kicks, my season rankings from best to worst: 4, 1, 2 & 3 (tie), 5.
For what it's worth, I agree with that rundown. Again, "worst" is a very relative term.

The whole fall of McNulty thing also echoed the more severe and lethal fall from grace of Mike Kellerman on Homicide, a storyline that I've always felt was one of the bravest and most compelling I've ever seen on dramatic television. The parallels extend even down to Bunk (who is clearly modeled after the same guy Meldrick Lewis was, read Simon's book if you want to see the templates of most of the original Homicide squad) reluctantly covering for McNulty and Greggs (who is a clear stand in for Stivers) refusing to play along and eventually indirectly helping to push him off the force.

Throughout the run, it was clear that when McNulty was really engaged in his work, he was pretty worthless as a husband, father and general human being. His effectiveness at his job was in almost inverse proportion to his success at all other aspects of life. That was behind his decision to stop working as a detective and go back on the beat. While he was doing that relatively mundane job, he established a good relationship with Beatie and her kids, with his own boys and even his ex-wife. All of that started to slip away when he went back working on major cases.

This is a theme that is consistent over the course of both shows: that being a good detective almost requires you to be nothing else and that some people, no matter how good they are at the job, get chewed up and spit out by it. Kellerman started off as a gifted, rather happy go lucky guy moving up from arson and over the course of a couple of years, became a bitter, rotten jerk. Having appealing main characters, especially ones that serve as protagonists for the overall show, go through something like that, is really, really unusual for American TV.

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Re: The Wire

#67 Post by colinr0380 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:17 pm

Great news for British TV viewers like me who haven't yet bought the box sets and did not have access to the subscription channel FX, the BBC is going to show all five seasons.

Better late than never I suppose!

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foggy eyes
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Re: The Wire

#68 Post by foggy eyes » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:48 pm

Be prepared to write off 60 hours of your life, Colin - it's well worth it!

I finished the lot last week (after starting season 1 about 6 months ago), and most of the things people say about it are true. It's not so much "the great American audiovisual novel" (Alexander Horwath's phrase, I think) as a sort of "televisual novel" very much bound by the restraints of the medium, but nevertheless amazing in comparison to what usually passes for TV entertainment these days. I liked season 5 too, especially the marked shift in tone - the other seasons skirt such a fine line (at times) that I found it quite satisfying to see things tip over the edge...

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Ruby
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#69 Post by Ruby » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:44 am

zedz wrote:My issues with the last season, which I've just finished watching, weren't so much about the implausibility or triteness of certain plot elements, but with their excessive convenience.
Season 2 is my favourite but there’s a cringe inducing ‘police academy’ vibe to getting ‘the group’ back together. This kind of set-up has been parodied to death so it’s just painful to watch in such a great show.

Contrivance is a real problem at times and the concluding music wraps don’t always work. My favourite is the one from season two because it carries and builds upon a dramatic arc from the first two seasons and so points to the third. Unlike many of the other conclusions, it stands independently of the ‘message’.

In that regard, season one and two are the least preachy- after that, the show became more blunt in delivering its ‘message’. I would say, it even became more about delivering that message that characters or drama.

Also, some episodes are very poorly directed. Obviously, TV employs different directors but the variation is standard is pretty noticeable.

I shouldn’t nit-pit because it’s so damn good BUT hey, what else are we here for?

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Re: The Wire

#70 Post by Robin Davies » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:25 pm

Which episodes were "very poorly directed"?

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Ruby
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Re: The Wire

#71 Post by Ruby » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:51 pm

Robin Davies wrote:Which episodes were "very poorly directed"?
I’d have to recheck for specifics, but the ones in which rack-focusing is used with free abandon stand out. As do 180 degree sweeping camera turns. Maybe awkward is more accurate than poor: the tendency of the show was towards a restrained-unobtrusive –direction but some directors seemed to constantly draw attention to themselves. Those episodes seemed awkward to me.

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Re: The Wire

#72 Post by accatone » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:33 am

Not being into TV Shows (actually disconnected from televison since 5 years - and yes, life feels better now) i however made it into this show. Over the years i continually slipped over certain articels in my favourite newpapers...and then out of nothing found the first season on my desk...and must second the opening post - easily the best thing that came out of the USA since -decades? - i am amazed, truly great!

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Re: The Wire

#73 Post by domino harvey » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:50 pm

I finally got around to seeing the entire series of this and in case anyone was curious, as someone who moved to Baltimore a few years ago on the same alt-cert teaching program as Prez, the fourth season is only all too accurate in many respects, school-wise and beyond. I enjoyed the entire run of the series, but I think the fourth season best sells the overarching emotion of anyone stuck in one of the assorted Charm City machines: Futility. I could especially sympathize with Carcetti, who gets into the mayoral race for personal reasons and then suddenly finds himself caring once he's in a position of power, which makes things too complicated before he reverts back to playing the numbers game to ensure the gubernatorial seal. It's the caring that will kill ya, it really is, and you can't stay put for too long in this system without losing most if not all of the idealism you brought with you. It's why these programs have such abominable rates of retention-- the good ones leave before the city changes them completely, and the bad ones stay to abuse the system. Almost everyone I came in with either quit (one of my co-workers lasted all of six days!), was fired, or moved once they got their state cert-- I'm one of a literal handful left after only two and a half years, and even though I'm already tenured (What does that tell you about this city's school system? Anyone who can last two years doesn't have to worry about getting let go) I'll still be escaping once my personal obligation to the program is fulfilled, while I still value reaching students through practical education above numbers games.

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mfunk9786
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Re: TV on DVD

#74 Post by mfunk9786 » Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:21 am

I still haven't been able to get past the first few episodes of The Wire. I'm keeping it in my figurative cellar like a rare bottle of wine until I feel ready to really dive in. I just don't get what makes it so great yet.

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Mr Sausage
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Re: TV on DVD

#75 Post by Mr Sausage » Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:35 am

mfunk9786 wrote:I still haven't been able to get past the first few episodes of The Wire. I'm keeping it in my figurative cellar like a rare bottle of wine until I feel ready to really dive in. I just don't get what makes it so great yet.
Its greatness isn't immediately apparent. It's only once the series has had time to weave its complex layers of plot and character motivations/interactions that you realize its greatness. It needs time to unfold itself. You really need to see a full season to understand why it's special, I think.

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