The Bridge

[warren oates]

Just wanted to put in a good word for F/X's The Bridge, which to me seems to make way more sense set in El Paso/Juarez than it did in whatever Scandinavian context it originated. The strong pilot from feature director Gerardo Naranjo has me ready to commit to the whole season. It's unabashedly a genre show -- equally a crime procedural and a thriller -- but with a depth of characterization and a sense of place that are more in line with the better cable dramas. I've given up on Under the Dome but if it stays this good I'm happy to spend my TV time (at least until Breaking Bad starts again) with The Bridge.

[flyonthewall2983]

Just wanted to put in a good word for F/X's The Bridge, which to me seems to make way more sense set in El Paso/Juarez than it did in whatever Scandinavian context it originated. The strong pilot from feature director Gerardo Naranjo has me ready to commit to the whole season. It's unabashedly a genre show -- equally a crime procedural and a thriller -- but with a depth of characterization and a sense of place that are more in line with the better cable dramas. I've given up on Under the Dome but if it stays this good I'm happy to spend my TV time (at least until Breaking Bad starts again) with The Bridge.

Agreed, the pilot was a real brain-scratcher on top of developing it's characters to a tee. I feel I know more about Ted Levine's character than anyone on Under The Dome, for example (which I too have given up on).

[warren oates]

There are a couple edge of your seat moments of suspense and one stunning image that sets the story in motion (and that gets more stunning the more you discover about it), but Ted Levine's character provides what's probably my favorite moment in The Bridge's pilot. That little idiosyncratic throwaway "it's gonna be okay" shoulder bump he gives to Sonya, one of the protagonists -- an almost Temple Grandin-esque aspie of a homicide detective -- whose world feels shattered not because of the inhuman violence she's been thrust into but because her longstanding boss

SpoilerShow

has announced his eventual plans to retire.

[flyonthewall2983]

It's a tiny bit troubling that this is the 2nd show this year to feature a "gifted" detective after a serial killer, but fortunately Diane Kruger's Sonya couldn't be more removed from Will Graham. Don't want to give away more than that, but it is a dichotomy that will be interesting to compare, as the show moves further ahead.

[knives]

I guess I'll be that guy and say I really didn't like it to the point where it may be the worst pilot I've ever seen (which I admit is a limited number). I had such a none reaction to the episode that I even started to wonder if I was watching the show wrong. The interactions, plot, and even performances seemed like wisps that fell out of my head in an instant.

[flyonthewall2983]

Could be a symptom of a fatigue for this kind of show, which I'm not totally out of sympathy with.

[Siddon]

It was just okay for me. The detective with Asbergers just feels so out of place and just an annoying gimmick. The show has an interesting dichotomy of the Mexican side being really well made and interesting and the America side being cliched, absurd and dull. I can't wait for the tough talking sgt to show up in episode two complaining about his sciatica and telling the detective that she's out of line and she has 24 hours to solve the case.

1 - Who-Dun-it?
2 - The Bridge
3 - Siberia
4 - Under the Dome

[flyonthewall2983]

The two episodes following the incredible pilot have kept me interested in the myriad of mysteries that have been piling up. It's taking it's time and not going for the easy fix of gratuitous sex and violence lesser shows would be entrenched in now. Plus the Sonya character is so interestingly flawed per her condition (a line of hers from this past episode made genuinely laugh out loud, to the point of pausing to let it all out).

[MichaelB]

Just wanted to put in a good word for F/X's The Bridge, which to me seems to make way more sense set in El Paso/Juarez than it did in whatever Scandinavian context it originated.

Have you actually seen the Scandinavian version? Why doesn't it make as much sense?

If anything, I found it hugely illuminating as to just how many cultural differences there are between Sweden and Denmark - something also memorably alluded to in Lars Von Trier's The Kingdom ("Danish scum!").

[Zot!]

Just wanted to put in a good word for F/X's The Bridge, which to me seems to make way more sense set in El Paso/Juarez than it did in whatever Scandinavian context it originated.

Have you actually seen the Scandinavian version? Why doesn't it make as much sense?

I was going to post the same, but I had assumed warren simply meant that there are more murder sprees on the US/Mexico border, as compared to the relatively uneventful Scandinavian equivalent. Even The Killing is pushing believability, but that other Danish show Den Som Draeber, is about serial killers, something that they've never actually had in Denmark.

[colinr0380]

If anything, I found it hugely illuminating as to just how many cultural differences there are between Sweden and Denmark - something also memorably alluded to in Lars Von Trier's The Kingdom ("Danish scum!").

I can't let that pass by without the appropriate YouTube link!

[warren oates]

Just wanted to put in a good word for F/X's The Bridge, which to me seems to make way more sense set in El Paso/Juarez than it did in whatever Scandinavian context it originated.

Have you actually seen the Scandinavian version? Why doesn't it make as much sense?

I was going to post the same, but I had assumed warren simply meant that there are more murder sprees on the US/Mexico border, as compared to the relatively uneventful Scandinavian equivalent. Even The Killing is pushing believability, but that other Danish show Den Som Draeber, is about serial killers, something that they've never actually had in Denmark.

It's not just the murder sprees Zot mentions, it's the whole context of the conception of the show that makes more sense to me. I'm sure that two of the tallest, healthiest relatively whitest and wealthiest nations in Europe could disagree all day about their "cultural differences" but that won't make a show about a border between them any more interesting or relevant beyond the small audiences who will watch anything about Scandinvian crime. Promos for The Bridge had me convinced in seconds that I should watch the show because of the believably huge irony and high stakes built into the word it depicts. I was surprised to discover it was an adaptation of anything -- this has to be one of those rare instances in which Hollywood's cowardly propensity to bet on sure things and insist on remakes of pre-existing properties has actually tricked itself into producing something more authentic than the original. It's not only that there are more and more violent crimes on the U.S/Mexican border, it's the vast gulf between the general public's expectation of safety and the authorities' ability to intervene on either side. El Paso is a relatively safe and prosperous city, like many other places in the U.S. But Juarez is a place where thousands of women and girls can go missing for years with no investigation, where drug cartels can murder their enemies in broad daylight or torture them to death in safe houses and bury them in mass graves, where a serial killer could stalk his victims with relative impunity because corruption is so pervasive and life is so cheap and who would miss a few more women. The Bridge is an entertaining genre show, to be sure, but it has something real to say about the way the world works.

[MichaelB]

I'm sure that two of the tallest, healthiest relatively whitest and wealthiest nations in Europe could disagree all day about their "cultural differences" but that won't make a show about a border between them any more interesting or relevant beyond the small audiences who will watch anything about Scandinvian crime. Promos for The Bridge had me convinced in seconds that I should watch the show because of the believably huge irony and high stakes built into the word it depicts. I was surprised to discover it was an adaptation of anything -- this has to be one of those rare instances in which Hollywood's cowardly propensity to bet on sure things and insist on remakes of pre-existing properties has actually tricked itself into producing something more authentic than the original.

You still haven't confirmed whether or not you've actually seen the original.

Basically, I'm trying to work out if you're saying "I've seen both, and the US version is unquestionably superior" or "I really enjoyed the US version, and can't believe it's any better than the original, but I haven't actually seen it so this is guesswork in my part". Because the former would be more of a recommendation to me than the latter, as I thought the original was superb.

[Zot!]

I'm sure that two of the tallest, healthiest relatively whitest and wealthiest nations in Europe could disagree all day about their "cultural differences" but that won't make a show about a border between them any more interesting or relevant beyond the small audiences who will watch anything about Scandinvian crime.

Well complaining about how boring white people are, or that a show you've never seen is uninteresting seems a bad start. But yes, I will concede that the US/Mexican border is a fine place for a drama...one that we've already seen plenty since Touch of Evil. I enjoy the subtlety of the original myself, but if you need overt racial friction to enjoy a program, I expect this delivers.

[warren oates]

You still haven't confirmed whether or not you've actually seen the original. Basically, I'm trying to work out if you're saying "I've seen both, and the US version is unquestionably superior" or "I really enjoyed the US version, and can't believe it's any better than the original, but I haven't actually seen it so this is guesswork in my part". Because the former would be more of a recommendation to me than the latter, as I thought the original was superb.

Sorry, Michael. No, I haven't seen the so-called "original," just read about it. My point all along has been about how the idea of the show itself, which is what made me want to watch it in the first place, seems so much clearer when it's set on the U.S./Mexican border. An endorsement from you carries a lot of weight for me, so I'm certainly more willing to give the Danish/Swedish one a try now. Just saying that it's nothing I would have considered based on its premise alone, whereas The Bridge definitely is.

I'm sure that two of the tallest, healthiest relatively whitest and wealthiest nations in Europe could disagree all day about their "cultural differences" but that won't make a show about a border between them any more interesting or relevant beyond the small audiences who will watch anything about Scandinvian crime.

Well complaining about how boring white people are, or that a show you've never seen is uninteresting seems a bad start. But yes, I will concede that the US/Mexican border is a fine place for a drama...one that we've already seen plenty since Touch of Evil. I enjoy the subtlety of the original myself, but if you need overt racial friction to enjoy a program, I expect this delivers.

It's not about race, it's about actual, measurable "cultural differences" (and socioeconomic ones, and differences in political and security conditions) that affect real storytelling/dramatic possibilities versus the more minor quibbles between two comparatively safe, stable, gun-free and homogeneous countries -- like the ones satirized in the clip colinr posted -- where overlapping jurisdiction has to pull most of the weight of the conflict.

Touch of Evil is an interesting reference, a brilliant film and one of my favorites for myriad reasons, but probably without enough narrative juice to sustain even one season of a TV series. Fast-forward a few decades, though... Which is exactly my point. Border stories are all about the nitty-gritty context of very particular times/places. There will always be conflicts and crimes on every border in the world. But not all of those places strike me as the ideal current location for an investment (by storytellers or an audience) in 10-50 hours or more of narrative. If that observation makes me hostile to "subtlety" in my consumption of popular crime fiction, so be it.

[Andre Jurieu]

I haven't seen the so-called "original," ...

Uh ... is there any real dispute that the Danish TV-series is the original version of this show?

[Zot!]

I haven't seen the so-called "original," ...

Uh ... is there any real dispute that the Danish TV-series is the original version of this show?

No, not sure what warren is getting at there. Having now sampled the US remake, I can recommend anyone curious should definitely check out the Danish/Swedish co-production instead. What I saw of the remake did not compel me to continue. As far as context, the Oresund bridge not only looks impresive, but joins two cities and cultures that were geographically very close but physically seperated for 500 years. Now you can drive across in 15 minutes. As MichaelB mentions, the show certainly retains a cultural and political component, for those interested.

[warren oates]

I haven't seen the so-called "original," ...

Uh ... is there any real dispute that the Danish TV-series is the original version of this show?

No dispute about the execution/quality of the Danish show (with fans like those who've chimed in above, I imagine it does execute its idea well). No dispute that the Danish show was first chronologically or serves as the official American excuse/cover for telling a story that strikes me as more "original" (as in new and inventive). There's really only one reason the American version actually needed to be based on any kind of pre-existing property at all -- skittish TV development execs -- because, in its premise alone, it's an inherently better setting with much higher stakes and a lot more to say about its particular world.

I can imagine each pitch meeting going something like this. In Denmark: "Hey, people like The Killing, right? What if The Killing happened in two Scandinavian countries, with two brooding detectives in two conflicting jurisdictions? We'd have twice the hit!" "Yeah, and there's that long bridge to Sweden now..." ""What if they found a body in the middle? Or two bodies?" "Yeah, let's call it The Bridge." "Don't forget all the cultural differences!" "Right, we're so different from the Swedes. They'll be all kinds of subtle tensions..."

In the U.S.: "All the networks want to do is remakes and adaptations." "I know. Look at this one, The Bridge. It's about a cross-border murder investigation. Scandinavian crime is still hot. They want to shoot the U.S. version in Vancouver, for the moody weather, just like the remake of The Killing. It'll be about the U.S./Canadian border, the subtle differences between the two cops and cultures." "Murder Mounties? Jesus! Where's the story? Does anything actually dangerous or interesting ever happen up there?" "There was that one terrorist in 1999..." "I know this sounds crazy, but what if we moved it south, put it on the border with Mexico? The drug war, all those missing women in Juarez. It's like a failed state down there." "Whoa, that show could really be about something. Imagine the Mexican cop -- if he does his job too well he won't just be creating a bureaucratic snafu, he'll be putting his life and the lives of his family on the line. They could all be tortured to death." "Of course, we'd have to hire bilingual directors and let the Mexican characters speak Spanish." "They'll probably never greenlight it..."

[Zot!]

warren, you need to stop speaking in such absolutes about something you haven't seen. Your argument amounts to the idea that any story would work better on the Mexican border than it would in Scandinavia, just because it intrinsically has more "tension". I don't even know where to get started, so I wont.

[colinr0380]

So it's kind of a Traffik mini-series/Traffic film/Traffic mini-series situation?

[warren oates]

warren, you need to stop speaking in such absolutes about something you haven't seen. Your argument amounts to the idea that any story would work better on the Mexican border than it would in Scandinavia, just because it intrinsically has more "tension". I don't even know where to get started, so I wont.

God forbid a thriller that at least aspires to 10-50 hours of my time should have tension! But, like I said above, it's not just about "tension" it's about the whole breadth of narrative and thematic possibilities, it's about a world big enough for an on-going serialized TV show. I'm generally not interested in starting a serialized show that doesn't at least try to be worth that much of my time.

You can make a very good show about the subtle horrors of law enforcement bureaucracy. It's half The Wire. But nobody here is claiming that either incarnation of The Bridge is on that level.

It's just about what I look for when I'm considering second tier crime fiction (something lesser than the shows that clearly transcend their genre like Breaking Bad or The Wire). I'd certainly be more willing to read a single novel or see one film in the Scandinavian setting. I'm sure there are drugs and sex trafficking etc. on the Danish/Swedish border. And corrupt politicos. Like there are pretty much everywhere else. You could probably even gin some up on the U.S./Canadian border. It would just be a lot more work.

[knives]

Maybe if you bothered to get your bloated head out of your ass you'd hear that people are saying that the original version does succeed in being tense and successful at least on the level of this remake. You have no authority to speak on the original version of the show in any capacity. If you like the remake that's fine, but your pleasure doesn't reflect the original in any way until you've actually seen it you dolt.

[Andre Jurieu]

No dispute that the Danish show was first chronologically or serves as the official American excuse/cover for telling a story that strikes me as more "original" (as in new and inventive).

So, taking the entire premise of the Danish-version, along with its character-traits and basic plot, and simply adjusting the setting to locations that are more easily comprehended by the new North American audience now constitutes "originality"? It's not just an apt or shrewd alteration that might enhance the delivery of the basic premise to a new audience? Instead it's considered as completely re-inventing all the creative choices that were previously established and a bold new direction that's being explored by a creative-staff that we can declare as vanguards.

I guess I can also apply this rationale of "originality" to NBC's Hannibal, especially since they changed the gender of Freddie Lounds.

There's really only one reason the American version actually needed to be based on any kind of pre-existing property at all -- skittish TV development execs -- because, in its premise alone, it's an inherently better setting with much higher stakes and a lot more to say about its particular world.

I can think of another reason why it had to be based on an existing property - they had absolutely no premise for the show without adapting the Danish-version. Without the Danish-version to create the idea, the US-version would not exist at all. The US TV-execs did not come up with any idea to have a body discovered on the border of any two countries, let alone the US-Mexico border.

I also have absolutely no idea how someone can determine something to be better than its earlier version and declare the new adaptation to have far greater substance than something that proceeded it without any substantial knowledge gained from examining the first version. But, hey, you know - internet, I guess.

I can imagine each pitch meeting going something like this. In Denmark: "Hey, people like The Killing, right? What if The Killing happened in two Scandinavian countries ... "Don't forget all the cultural differences!" "Right, we're so different from the Swedes. They'll be all kinds of subtle tensions..."

In the U.S.: "All the networks want to do is remakes and adaptations." "I know. Look at this one, The Bridge. It's about a cross-border murder investigation.... "They'll probably never greenlight it..."

First off, I'm not sure it's incredibly helpful in this discussion of adaptation across different cultures to be utterly contemptuous and dismissive of other cultures and countries, especially since it doesn't appear as though you are offering anything more than some very broad and shallow perceptions of their culture.

Next, it's pretty easy to dismiss the creation of these projects when it's automatically assumed that everyone involved is an utter moron who possess such an inferior intellectual capacity that we all tower over in comparison and thus easily deride. Unfortunately, it's kind of a flawed premise to base our arguments upon considering we all have very little knowledge of how these shows were actually conceived. Realistically we could all envision scenarios whereby any artistic project was originally conceived by complete idiots and through rather terrible motivations, but I'm not sure it's reasonable or wise to start observing and evaluating these same projects with those preconceived notions regarding their creation. It's pretty easy to think that shows like Breaking Bad, The Wire, and The Sopranos were all created and green-lit with rather base motivations in mind, yet the actual execution of the concept is what matters.

Lastly, I have no idea why we're supposed to disparage the Danish creators for setting their show in their home country and in a location where they have a vast amount of knowledge about the various differences between the two countries. We rarely criticize US TV-creators for setting their shows in US locations, when another location might better convey their central themes. I'm sure The Wire could have been improved if it weren't relegated to boring ol' Baltimore. Why not NYC or Mexico City or Tokyo or somewhere in Italy instead?!? Bet the bureaucracy in those places is even worse. If we're really concerned with the creators finding the absolute best setting for the story, why don't we condemn the US-creators for not choosing an even more dramatic setting, such as within the disputed territories of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, or along the barriers between Afghanistan and Pakistan, or the border of China and India, or in Kashmir.

I enjoy that the show is set along the US-Mexico border and think it's a fitting setting to adapt the first version of the show to now target and easily relate a new US audience. However, from what I've seen of the Danish-version (only the first few episodes so far) it's fairly strong when isolated to its own merits or compared to its US-adaptation.

[knives]

To give a more calm response I wonder where this insane idea that the cultural tensions between Sweden and Denmark are lesser in any way then the ones between Mexico and the US. They're different sure, but a lot of the same problems like language and immigration are present at both borders.

[Andre Jurieu]

Well, they're all a bunch of white European people, so I guess it's basically like a spat between identical twins. Stupid twins! Can't you see you're all just the same? Just like the Chinese and Japanese.