ESPN 30 for 30

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dx23
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#26 Post by dx23 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:30 pm

Really liked "Broke". Is the film that all rookies from all leagues should be required to watch before the season starts. On a side note, Bernie Kosar looked like shit. He was sweating profusely during the entire documentary and really looked like someone who would do sexual favors for $5.

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knives
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#27 Post by knives » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:44 pm

Well aren't athletes just socially acceptable prostitutes?

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#28 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:51 pm

Politicians are.

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knives
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#29 Post by knives » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:55 pm

Politicians doesn't really hold up as an anology since they aren't selling their body as a product for use by others.

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#30 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:56 pm

Well neither do athletes since the owners don't fuck the players (AFAIK).

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knives
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#31 Post by knives » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:58 pm

I know some prostitutes who have a no fucking policy. The relationship between consumer and prostitute/athlete is rather close.

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Mr Sausage
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#32 Post by Mr Sausage » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:29 pm

knives wrote:Well aren't athletes just socially acceptable prostitutes?
Seriously, knives?

I mean, it's alright to play around with sophisms, but not if you're going to start seriously believing them.

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knives
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#33 Post by knives » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:32 pm

How was that a sophism?

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Mr Sausage
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#34 Post by Mr Sausage » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:42 pm

Because it's the kind of argument that shows off rhetorical skill more than reveals meaningful connections. All there is to it is some general rhetorical comparisons between bodies in use and commerce and a loose, argument-serving definition of prostitution. And if you make your definitions sufficiently wide, you can argue that any paying job is prostitution. Which can be a fun thing to do with friends, but, you know...

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knives
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#35 Post by knives » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:47 pm

Actually I don't find most jobs to be terribly different in the way they function from prostitution so you're not off from where I actually think. That said I do think from the consumer side of things and how that effects the producer there is an extraordinary amount of similarities here (I'd lump acting, modeling, and probably a few others in there).

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Mr Sausage
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#36 Post by Mr Sausage » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:59 pm

knives wrote:Actually I don't find most jobs to be terribly different in the way they function from prostitution so you're not off from where I actually think.
Funny how occupations involving payment for services resemble each other.
knives wrote:That said I do think from the consumer side of things and how that effects the producer there is an extraordinary amount of similarities here (I'd lump acting, modeling, and probably a few others in there).
Well, let's look at who're prostitutes now:

Actors
Models
Dancers (ballet included)
Mimes
Opera singers
All singers, really
All bands
Construction workers
Firemen (that explains all the calendars!)
Maids
Lecturers and debaters
Scientists

Pretty much everyone, really, is a prostitute.

Oh, look at that, the term has been drained of all meaning. There's no point in using it any more. So athletes aren't prostitutes after all!

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knives
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#37 Post by knives » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:02 pm

Yeah, pretty much.

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Mr Sausage
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#38 Post by Mr Sausage » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:09 pm

I still can't get over your 'ever notice how the job of prostitution resembles other things that are jobs?!' statement. Got a good chuckle from that one.

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knives
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#39 Post by knives » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:19 pm

That wasn't my intention. I was mostly highlighting that when discussed as your job especially from a point of desperation to continue it of course you're going to look like a $5 whore and DX's statement was really just a well yeah situation. Someone's who is forced into retirement before they want to often acts the same way.

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matrixschmatrix
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#40 Post by matrixschmatrix » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:43 pm

Well, the biggest difference between sex work and other fields is that sex workers are often impoverished, generally treated as social lepers, and suffer outrages rates of sexual assault and physical abuse as part of their line of work. Athletes, on the higher levels, are amongst the most lionized and highly paid people in the world and, while they suffer from pressure to abuse their bodies at times, are rarely actually assaulted in ways that aren't built in to their professions. So it is more surprising when a famous athlete finds his- or herself in a position of desperate need than when a sex worker does.

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dx23
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#41 Post by dx23 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:51 pm

knives wrote:That wasn't my intention. I was mostly highlighting that when discussed as your job especially from a point of desperation to continue it of course you're going to look like a $5 whore and DX's statement was really just a well yeah situation. Someone's who is forced into retirement before they want to often acts the same way.
Well, the moral of the story is that Kosar, as well as most of these other athletes, should have never been in that position of desperation. They earned millions of dollars and instead of saving some of that money, they wasted it in ridiculous ways. These guys have become "prostitutes" because of their own short-sighted "investments" and idea of how long of a career they would be having.

The only thing that bothered me a little was that a lot of blame was thrown around at goldiggers, family members, investors and posse, but the athletes who went on record about being broke didn't accept that most of the blame fell on their shoulders as they are professional adults and should have known better.

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Mr Sausage
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#42 Post by Mr Sausage » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:07 am

matrixschmatrix wrote:Well, the biggest difference between sex work and other fields is that sex workers are often impoverished, generally treated as social lepers, and suffer outrages rates of sexual assault and physical abuse as part of their line of work. Athletes, on the higher levels, are amongst the most lionized and highly paid people in the world and, while they suffer from pressure to abuse their bodies at times, are rarely actually assaulted in ways that aren't built in to their professions. So it is more surprising when a famous athlete finds his- or herself in a position of desperate need than when a sex worker does.
I'd say the important difference is that other jobs aren't paying you to perform sex acts for the gratification of another. Being desperate for money might lead you into prostitution but is not in itself prostitution. Seems like some people used metaphors to jump from A to B, but then somewhere along the way forgot they were using metaphors.

Saying athletes are prostitutes is plain silly.

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mfunk9786
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#43 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:16 am

I'm with Sausage on this one. Throw that statement into the pile of immature attention seekers such as "Republicans, Democrats, what's the difference?!" and "Why isn't there a 'White Entertainment Television'?"

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#44 Post by Andre Jurieu » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:22 am

dx23 wrote:On a side note, Bernie Kosar looked like shit. He was sweating profusely during the entire documentary and really looked like someone who would do sexual favors for $5.
That comment is somehow even more hilarious/depressing once you realize what Kosar's daughter does for a living.

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dx23
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#45 Post by dx23 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:36 am

I just googled that and wow! She is a porn star. As if Kosar hasn't suffered enough.

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#46 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:37 am

9.79* wasn't particularly memorable for much, except that Carl Lewis might be one of the most selfish athletes I've ever seen interviewed. That's a pretty high bar.

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dx23
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#47 Post by dx23 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:58 am

Felt the same. So far the first 2 new films have been somewhat underwhelming. And yes, Carl Lewis has to rank really high in the selfish, diva athletes of all time.

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#48 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:14 pm

It goes a little beyond diva behavior if you have one of your buddies (supposedly) spike your competitor's drinks so he eventually winds up losing the gold medal.

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Polybius
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#49 Post by Polybius » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:43 pm

I find that idea exceptionally difficult to believe.

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: ESPN 30 for 30

#50 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:56 pm

I would have too, but the guy's message to the filmmakers was rather cryptic. It's probably more likely it was something he did on his own, if at all of course. It's interesting how the competitive spirit can corrupt off the field.

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