Who Gives Good Commentary?

Discuss North American DVDs and Blu-rays or other DVD and Blu-ray-related topics.
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tryavna
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:38 pm
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Re: i agree

#51 Post by tryavna » Fri May 23, 2008 2:30 pm

BlackFrancis wrote:
LeeB.Sims wrote:You know who's commentary really annoys me is Anette Insdorf. I love Truffaut and she seems to know her stuff, but she seems so scripted and fake.
Insdorf IS annoying. The dude who did the commentaryy on Advise and Consent is as well...
Insdorf is also one of those people who use the word "indeed" way too much. It loses all meaning because it more or less becomes a space-taking interjection.

Advise and Consent was done by the ever-creepy Drew Casper, right? Along with Richard Schickel, who somehow manages to convey absolutely no worthwhile information in the three-hour running-time of The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, Casper is my least favorite commentator ever.

Someone on page 1 mentioned Scott Eyman's commentary for Trouble in Paradise, and I have to agree. I like Eyman's commentaries, except for the fact that he always sounds slightly self-important and condescending. He's gotten better with time, though. He sounds slightly less mannered on Steamboat Round the Bend.

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Jean-Luc Garbo
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#52 Post by Jean-Luc Garbo » Sat May 24, 2008 8:03 pm

magicmarker wrote:Has anyone gone out and read these critics books/articles based on their commentary? If so, any books etc. to recommend or warn against? Has anyone come across instances where the commentary was great but the writing not so, or vice versa?
For his Contempt commentary, Stam basically reads from his book on self-reflexivity. The book is good, but most of it is about literature. Stick with his commentary instead.

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Lemmy Caution
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#53 Post by Lemmy Caution » Sun May 25, 2008 2:31 am

Just went through this thread. Very helpful as I usually don't listen to commentaries, except for a few films I love or sometimes I just check out the first 10 minutes of a commentary to see if it is worthwhile.

I made a list of the most highly praised commentaries in this thread. Though most of these recs were from 2004 - 05, so there should be a lot more newer DVDs with outstanding commentary.

CC's
Red Beard -- Stephen Prince
Straw Dogs -- Stephen Prince
Wild Strawberries – Peter Cowie
Tokyo Olympiad -- Peter Cowie
Early Summer – Donald Richie
The Story of Floating Weeds – Donald Richie
L'Avventura -- Gene Youngblood's
Peeping Tom - Laura Mulvey
Contempt - Robert Stam
Trouble In Paradise -- Scott Eyman

Other
My Darling Clementine -- Scott Eyman
Fando & Lis - Alejandro Jodorowsky
Dr. Mabuse Der Spieler - David Kalat's
Gran Casino & Young One - Philip Kemp
Treasure of Sierra Madre - _____________

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colinr0380
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#54 Post by colinr0380 » Thu May 29, 2008 8:35 am

I'd also like to put in a mention for Casper Tybjerg - his commentaries on Passion of Joan of Arc and (the BFI) Man With A Movie Camera are well-researched, informative and always interesting (but I still have to listen to his commentaries on Haxan and the MoC Michael!)

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Tommaso
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#55 Post by Tommaso » Thu May 29, 2008 8:41 am

Wasn't the BFI-Vertov commentary by Yuri Tsivian? Great it is, though.

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colinr0380
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#56 Post by colinr0380 » Thu May 29, 2008 9:06 am

#-o Yes it was, I got over excited and lumped it together with Tybjerg's other commentaries without checking first! :oops:

That means I'd like Tsivian added to the list too!

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HerrSchreck
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#57 Post by HerrSchreck » Thu May 29, 2008 10:57 am

Greg Mank-- who used to annoy me to no end (though I admit always admired his genuine fanaticism)-- won me over into his camp with his Cat People/WB commentary. Very Kalat-ish.

Anything by Michael Blake on a Lon Chaney disc is worth listening to even if it's mere liner notes (Victory/Wicked Darling, Image Ent.), short onscreen piece (The Penalty, Kino), or full-on commentaries (TCM Chaney set, WB, and The Phantom of the Opera (deluxe special ed. from a few months ago, Image ent).

Haggai
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#58 Post by Haggai » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:47 pm

Hi all, new to the board here...fun topic!

I looked through this thread pretty quickly, but I don't think anyone mentioned Eddie Muller, who's definitely my favorite for DVD commentaries. On the various Warner and Fox noir DVDs that he's done, he combines lots of production information with interesting observations about the cast and crew, the script, etc., and--in a rare feat for a DVD commenter--he does it all in a very entertaining style. I've met him at the San Francisco Noir City festival a couple of times, and his personality is exactly as it comes across in the commentaries, very enthusiastic and engaging about all things noir.

I imagine that the toughest thing in doing a DVD commentary is keeping it lively and interesting, particularly if it's a solo effort. I've also met a couple of other commentators at the SF Noir festival, Alan Rode (he did the Fox Noir "Black Widow" track) and Foster Hirsch. Both of them are very personable and lots of fun to talk to about film, but they don't quite come across that way in their commentaries. Although Alan told me he was pretty sick on the day he did his track, so that might explain it...LOL. Foster Hirsch told me that he's always nervous doing commentaries and that he doesn't really like doing them in the first place, although from the ones I've heard, he always does a good job anyway. But Eddie Muller is really the master at keeping things fun while imparting a lot of useful information along the way.

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Gregory
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Re:

#59 Post by Gregory » Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:17 pm

In light of the little debate over the lack of commentary tracks on Buñuel releases and the "fetishization" of commentaries, I wanted to say how much I appreciated the Quandt video essays in the Teshigahara set. Those who didn't have the time to watch these should really dig at least one of them out and watch them, if only to see how superior they are to most commentaries by scholars and critics.
I admit I'm biased against feature-length commentaries to begin with. I feel that sitting through a film with the images de-coupled from the sound and with a different frame of mind from normal viewing is something that can weaken a film's "magic," for lack of a better word, when one actually re-watches the film. I've skipped through a lot of commentaries to see, during a particularly interesting scene or moment, whether the commentators are commenting on exactly what's currently happening on the screen. They almost never are. Very few of these critic/scholar commentaries seem to do anything that couldn't be done better in a written essay.
The video essay format gives Quandt the ability not only to use a film's scenes in a highly specific way, but to bring them in at precisely the moment needed to support his points. Analysis and juxtaposition become much easier to accomplish, and Quandt can structure his remarks in the best possible way as he sees fit, rather than following the structure of the film itself. This discourages all the pitfalls of bad or mediocre commentary tracks with which I'm sure we're all too familiar (narrating obvious details, ignoring on-screen images, long silences, etc.).
"Brevity is the soul of wit" and, in this case, "less is more."
For me, the format of these video essays is also better than the usual interview format where someone makes a ppoint and then we cut to an excerpt from the film that illustrates the point. The critic's voice directly over a wider array of excerpts is much more interesting and engaging. I've been trying to remember what other DVDs I have that include something like this.

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colinr0380
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Re: Who gives good commentary?

#60 Post by colinr0380 » Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm

I haven't yet reached the Teshigahara set in my to watch pile yet, but it sounds like you would like the selected scene analysis by Christopher Faulkner on The Rules Of The Game, which does the same thing of fitting the specific sequences being discussed to the commentary and repeating them over if the sequence finishes before the discussion of it does (I noticed a similar technique used for Juliette Binoche's select scene comments on the Miramax discs of Three Colours: Blue).

I suppose that is the difficult situation with commentaries though - stick too close to the on screen material and you run the risk of people saying that you are just redundantly narrating the action on screen (I suppose this all depends on the understanding of the audience though as to whether they react with happiness that a detail, or the meaning of a detail, has been pointed out to them which they had not previously noticed, or whether they react with boredom and frustration that a "so called expert" is talking them through things they had already figured out from the film themselves. It must be a difficult balancing act to pull off), go into details that diverge away from what is occuring on screen and you get comments about why you felt it necessary to talk over a film in the first place when you could have put it all in another form.

I can understand those reactions but I think some people don't look at the commentary as its own thing - as a chance for a person knowledgeable on the subject to have a couple of uninterrupted hours to speak about how they made the film, or the ideas behind the film, or what makes the film stand out for them etc. I understand the wish to have a commentary reduced to the salient points over select and relevant scenes but that might also incur extra expense in editing material together into a featurette, not to mention the space needed to encode the featurette onto the disc that may detract from the bit rate which the film itself is encoded at, or the space left to add other extra features compared to just running an alternate audio track over the film itself.

There will always be problems of getting filmmakers in to comment over their films (or others) when they have little of any note to say (e.g. William Friedkin), or getting 'experts' in to comment on films who turn out to just narrate the action without insight (e.g. on Once Upon A Time In America), but to say that is a fault of commentaries as a format seems extreme. Even documentaries can be packed full of irrelevant 'celebrity fan' comments or insight-free insights - that doesn't mean that all documentaries are useless and should be dropped, just that there needs to be more care and consideration chosen in who can provide an interesting and relevant commentary, as well as knowledge that just pushing someone in front of a microphone and expecting them to produce two (or four) non-stop hours of consistently witty, informative and sparkling banter is not entirely realistic.

I agree that there should be courage to not produce a commentary when it seems like the material does not warrant it, or if the filmmaker cannot or will not talk about their work in that form, rather than forcing a useless commentary (or documentary) on there just because of the 'added value'. However there should be just as much courage to produce a commentary (or two, or three as on Slacker) when it feels justified and there is a chance that that commentary track might stand as the longest piece of criticism or analysis that the film may ever receive and be an important resource which can also place a film into its historical context for the future.

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a.khan
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Re: Who gives good commentary?

#61 Post by a.khan » Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:06 am

It also helps to have James Quandt as a commentator, because the guy is always well-prepared and very thorough in his analysis. I cherish his commentary on "Pickpocket."

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Magic Hate Ball
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Re: Who gives good commentary?

#62 Post by Magic Hate Ball » Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:57 pm

I've been rolling through the commentaries for the recent Stanley Kubrick box set, and so far I think The Shining is the most excellent, with commentary by the Steadicam operator (and inventor) Garrett Brown and film critic John Baxter. It's quite funny at times because Brown's commentary so often completely overtakes that of Baxter; Brown's commentary is loaded with anecdotes and trivia and information, and Baxter really doesn't do a lot more than comment on what's onscreen and repeat old Kubrick rumors. A Clockwork Orange's is very good as well, but not quite as completely fascinating. Malcolm McDowell occasionally devolves into simply repeating lines, and again there's the off-kilter feel because he so outshines co-commentator film historian Nick Redman, but it's quite fun. 2001: A Space Odyssey's commentary is okay, but it can be sort of sparse. Dullea and Lockwood are a little dry, and not as in-depth as the others, and occasionally wrong about things. I still haven't seen Full-Metal Jacket, as I really don't care for it, and it's a bit of a shame that there's no commentary for Eyes Wide Shut.

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aox
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Re: Who gives good commentary?

#63 Post by aox » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:42 am

CC:

The Seven Samurai
Pickpocket
L'Avventura
The Rules of the Game
Solaris
Notorious
Ace in the Hole
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
The Last Emperor

Other:

Anything by Coppola... especially The Godfather 3 and Apocalypse Now.
Almost anything by Oliver Stone (especially Alexander, JFK, Nixon, and the Doors)
Ed Norton from Fight Club
Dances with Wolves with Kevin Costner

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King Prendergast
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Re: Who gives good commentary?

#64 Post by King Prendergast » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:45 pm

Giamatti and Hayden Church on Sideways is one of the most entertaining commentaries ever.

Truly witty gents.

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tojoed
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Re: Who gives good commentary?

#65 Post by tojoed » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:50 pm

Robert Altman, Elliot Gould, George Segal and Joe Walsh on California Split are very funny and informative. Hearing them talk on the significance of the name "Barbara" in their lives is a hoot. Of course, Elliot Gould tops everyone else, " I was once married to a girl called Barbra..."

I think Altman is so much better on this than Nashville because it's probably his most personal film and his greatest.

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Yojimbo
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Re: Who gives good commentary?

#66 Post by Yojimbo » Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:27 pm

I've still to catch up on many of my Criterion commentaries but I loved the following:

Criterion
The Yojimbo/Sanjuro
The triple disc Seven Samurai

Other
Masters of Cinema 'Toni' (two 'academics' who complement each other perfectly, and, almost ironically where 'academic commentators are concerned, seem to be enjoying themselves immensely)
Carl Franklin commentaries for 'One False Move' and 'Devil in a Blue Dress'
Werner Herzog commentaries are essential listening
ditto Eddie Muller's Film Noir commentaries (I especially enjoyed the one he did with James Ellroy on the most recent Film Noir set, and the one he did with Dana Andrews daughter)
Jack Nicholson's commentary for Antonionii's 'The Passenger'
Tony Rayns' Teshigahara and Imamura commentaries
(I haven't listened to any of his Mizoguchi comms yet)

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Murdoch
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Re: Who gives good commentary?

#67 Post by Murdoch » Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:38 pm

I found Mary Harron's commentary for American Psycho to offer an interesting characterization of Patrick Bateman as the victim, it reminded me of the Straw Dogs CC commentary in how it offered a completely different perspective from the common understanding of the character.

AfterTheRain
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Re: Who gives good commentary?

#68 Post by AfterTheRain » Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:33 pm

Roger Corman has done some good commentaries on House of Usher (1960) and The Pit and the Pendulum (1961). I've yet to hear his thoughts on Tomb of Ligeia and X - The Man With the X-Ray Eyes.

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skuhn8
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Re: Who gives good commentary?

#69 Post by skuhn8 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:32 am

King Prendergast wrote:Giamatti and Hayden Church on Sideways is one of the most entertaining commentaries ever.

Truly witty gents.
This is one of the few commentaries I've listened to more than once. Certainly not much of a technical commentary, but listening to these two pull out 10-point vocab and cap on themselves is laugh out loud funny.

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King Prendergast
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Re: Who gives good commentary?

#70 Post by King Prendergast » Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:05 pm

skuhn8 wrote:
King Prendergast wrote:Giamatti and Hayden Church on Sideways is one of the most entertaining commentaries ever.

Truly witty gents.
This is one of the few commentaries I've listened to more than once. Certainly not much of a technical commentary, but listening to these two pull out 10-point vocab and cap on themselves is laugh out loud funny.
Yes, I like how they constantly compliment each other on their verbal one-upsmanship: "well done sir."

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Sloper
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Re: Who gives good commentary?

#71 Post by Sloper » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:33 am

Anyone with the remotest interest in 1930s Hollywood, and especially the role of German emigré filmmakers within the system, should check out Scott Macqueen's commentary on WB's Midsummer Night's Dream disc. It's one of the most informative (and infectiously enthusiastic) commentary tracks I've ever heard, providing lots of insight into the way producers collaborated on or interfered with the making of the film, their nervousness about the filming style of Reinhardt and Dieterle (by all accounts the latter was the main creative force behind this, contrary to what I think has been generally assumed), the techniques used to achieve the stunning photographic effects, the casting, the adaptation of the play, the use of music, the reception from the critics, the original stage production at the Hollywood Bowl, etc etc. Macqueen's flamboyant style can be a little grating at times; in which respect it suits MND perfectly. A must-see film, whether you like the play or not (I can't stand it), and a labour of love by Macqueen.

[I'm posting this here rather than in the 'Shakespeare Collection' thread in the hope that more people will actually see it; the other thread's title begins 'Branagh's Hamlet', which is enough to put anyone off...]

pikopiko
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Re: Who gives good commentary?

#72 Post by pikopiko » Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:50 pm

long time lurker, first time poster.

i love this topic because i feel a good commentary can really put a good disc over the top and make it an overall interesting and thought provoking experience.

that being said here are my two favorite commentary tracks:

Steven Soderbergh interviewing Steven Soderbergh on the commentary for Schizopolis

and the all time best commentary:

Spinal Tap's commentary track on This is Spinal Tap!

Numero Trois
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Re: Who gives good commentary?

#73 Post by Numero Trois » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:17 am

I agree with previous praising of Roger Ebert's commentaries. His audio track for "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls" was at least as entertaining as the movie itself. He has his faults as a critic, but as a conversationalist when he's on a roll it can get quite engrossing.

Mark Metcalf
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Re: Who gives good commentary?

#74 Post by Mark Metcalf » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:52 am

Ebert's commentary on Dark City is also excellent.

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Ovader
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Re: Who gives good commentary?

#75 Post by Ovader » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:00 am

For people who like the Eddie Muller commentaries he is considering the following as I've read on his Facebook profile.
QUESTION FOR THE DAY: If Eddie Muller created downloadable audio commentaries for already existing DVDs, such as IN A LONELY PLACE and NIGHTMARE ALLEY and CRISS CROSS -- how much would someone actually pay for one of these? I'm trying to figure the economics of this brave new world.

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