The Conformist and 1900

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Arn777
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:10 am
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#126 Post by Arn777 » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:58 pm

Yes, for Trintignant Sanda and Clementi's original voice. For the rest of the cast, French dubs at the time were actually very good.

Cinesimilitude
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#127 Post by Cinesimilitude » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:09 pm

Arn777 wrote:Yes, for Trintignant Sanda and Clementi's original voice. For the rest of the cast, French dubs at the time were actually very good.
It's problematic, cause obviously Bertolucci approved of what the final italian version was. Everyone just spoke what they knew back then, and then they'd worry about the soundtrack after. I like to stick with whatever the director's preference is.

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Dylan
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:28 pm

#128 Post by Dylan » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:25 pm

Same on The Conformist, you get the English track first
What a poor decision. For the "dance of the blind" segment, I'm assuming it switches to Italian, then? That's going to confuse almost every casual viewer.

Personally, I don't understand why anybody would want to watch "The Conformist" in anything but Italian (and the same goes for "The Leopard" and "L' Eclisse" and "La Strada" and "Rocco and His Brothers" and every other Italian film where an actor is dubbed). I could go on for about five pages about how the Italian language is integral to the success of this film, but particularly when he goes to France (where incidental French is spoken by the cast), Marcello Clerici must be speaking Italian for that part of the story to make perfect sense (the scene where Gastone Moschin is accused by a French woman of speaking Italian to French birds surely must be lost in both dubs, among other scenes).

However, I can understand watching it in French more than I can understand Paramount's decision to put the English dub on automatic.
Last edited by Dylan on Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Gigi M.
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#129 Post by Gigi M. » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:34 pm

Personally, I don't understand why anybody would want to watch "The Conformist" in anything but Italian (and the same goes for "The Leopard" and "L' Eclisse" and "La Strada" and "Rocco and His Brothers" and every other Italian film where an actor is dubbed).
Same here.

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Arn777
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#130 Post by Arn777 » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:50 pm

Dylan, fair point re The Conformist.

I am all for watching films in their original languages, with the exception of Italian films of the 60's-early 70s involving several French actors with key parts (and because dubbing was taken very seriously in France at the time). I watched the Rene Chateau DVD of Rocco last week which only has the French dub and it is a really fine dub.

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Dylan
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:28 pm

#131 Post by Dylan » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:04 pm

I am all for watching films in their original languages, with the exception of Italian films of the 60's-early 70s involving several French actors with key parts (and because dubbing was taken very seriously in France at the time). I watched the Rene Chateau DVD of Rocco last week which only has the French dub and it is a really fine dub.
I can see where you're coming from, but for me alternate dubs of Italian films have never been an option (although they interest me very much as a point of reference).

To keep this "Conformist" specific, this also has to do with my rather deep adoration of the story itself, and how "Italian" it feels to me. During the film's central love scene, where Marcello asks his wife details about her first sexual experience right before he proceeds to have sex with her, the entire color scheme transforms as the train crosses borders into France. For me, part of the power here is the idea that he's going into another country (a new language, French, a new "color," blue) to carry on his mission, all the while having sex with his wife to stabilize the normality he feels he's achieved by marrying her. Needless to say, this scene is incredibly powerful to me, and for me, part of it is because the POV is Italian, and his entire world is visually and subconsciously changing as he goes into France.

I respect your point of view, it's just not one I share, particularly in the case of "The Conformist."

With that said, international films dubbing lead actors still occurs today, the first example that comes to mind being Lars Rudolph for "Werkmeister Harmonies," and I would never want to watch that film in German.

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HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

#132 Post by HerrSchreck » Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:53 am

Yea I saw that run in Film Forum and though the colors had a slightly antique-y/analog hue to them, I wasn't sure that it wasn't unintentional, owing to the heavy neo-expressionistic (maybe noir, almost Altonesque) aura to those sublime images. It was the first time I'd seen the film in widescreen & in the correct language, and was thoroughly blown away. I walked out feeling like I'd taken some nuclear blasts off an opiated chong of Thai-stick.

AZAI
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#133 Post by AZAI » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:23 am

Beaver/Conformist

no reason to complain about the image....

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Dylan
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#134 Post by Dylan » Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:53 am

Absolutely exquisite.

Image

Tuesday can't come soon enough.

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Barmy
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 3:59 pm

#135 Post by Barmy » Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:18 pm

Man those yellow subtitles look awful. Does anybody actually prefer yellow?

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MichaelB
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#136 Post by MichaelB » Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:02 pm

Barmy wrote:Man those yellow subtitles look awful. Does anybody actually prefer yellow?
I've just reacquainted myself - reluctantly - with Kino's subtitles on The Color of Pomegranates, which are not only yellow but in a serif font and with a prominent drop shadow.

Hideous isn't the word. Or rather, it is the word, but it's somehow inadequate.

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Highway 61
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:40 pm

#137 Post by Highway 61 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:20 pm

The DVD looks so, so much better than the print I saw last year, although I still don't have much enthusiasm for this release. Yellow subtitles make me depressed. Yes, I am a freak.

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Barmy
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 3:59 pm

#138 Post by Barmy » Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:25 pm

I'm passing on Conformist. I've seen it enough times. If it had white subtitles, I'd get it. But those subtitles are not just yellow, they are overlarge and grossly fonted. I'm not going to reward anyone for the idiocy of ugly yellow subtitles.

Since 1900 has an English track, I'll pick that up.

rwaits
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:24 pm

#139 Post by rwaits » Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:35 pm

Barmy wrote:I'm passing on Conformist. I've seen it enough times. If it had white subtitles, I'd get it. But those subtitles are not just yellow, they are overlarge and grossly fonted. I'm not going to reward anyone for the idiocy of ugly yellow subtitles.

Since 1900 has an English track, I'll pick that up.
You, sir, are a fool!

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foggy eyes
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#140 Post by foggy eyes » Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:40 pm

Beaver on Novecento.

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Lino
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#141 Post by Lino » Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:44 pm

Barmy wrote:Man those yellow subtitles look awful. Does anybody actually prefer yellow?
I don't think so but there are all sorts of people, I guess.

I'm actually going to wait for a local release in my country because portuguese Paramount's DVDs never come with yellow subs, only white. And thank the Lord for that.

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Barmy
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#142 Post by Barmy » Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:50 pm

If only Vasco da Gama had conquered America, we wouldn't have to put up with friggin yellow subtitles.

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Lino
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#143 Post by Lino » Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:55 pm

Hmm, I can see that you're not that barmy as you seem to show.

So, I guess you have to put the blame on Christopher Columbus now...? :wink:

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colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
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#144 Post by colinr0380 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:29 pm

Lino wrote:Hmm, I can see that you're not that barmy as you seem to show.

So, I guess you have to put the blame on Christopher Columbus now...? :wink:
Well he was (albeit indirectly) responsible for the creation of some terrible films: Christopher Columbus: The Discovery... Carry On Columbus... :wink:

And his namesake did make Bicentennial Man!

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Gordon
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:03 am

#145 Post by Gordon » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:26 am

Barmy wrote:If only Vasco da Gama had conquered America, we wouldn't have to put up with friggin yellow subtitles.
Leif Ericson would have chose white subs, too, I'll bet.

marty

#146 Post by marty » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:32 am

Barmy wrote:Man those yellow subtitles look awful. Does anybody actually prefer yellow?
I don't think so, They look garish but many local distributors here in Australia use them. I think it has something to do with the fact that SBS which is a TV network that screens foreign films always uses yellow subtitles so they use this as a reference. However, I think there is a slight change as I have noticed some R4 releases now have white subtitles such as Accent's splendid, Story of Marie & Julien, and Madman's Ozu films. But one thing I won;t stand for is yellow subs on B&W films. I simply will not buy them or, if I do buy them by accident, I will throw them out.

Cinesimilitude
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:43 am

#147 Post by Cinesimilitude » Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:40 am

marty wrote:But one thing I won;t stand for is yellow subs on B&W films. I simply will not buy them or, if I do buy them by accident, I will throw them out.
For accidents in the future, can your trash can be replaced with my Post Office Box?

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Gordon
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:03 am

#148 Post by Gordon » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:31 am

Yellow subs on a black and white film? Solution: turn the color down to zero on your TV. The R1 La Dolce Vita caused a furore when it was released, but the deluxe box edition has white subs apparently. Aye, just turn the color doon, folks! The yella subs on the R4 Red Desert were fucking annoying as fuck, though. Fucking cunts down in that Australia. :wink:

Cinesimilitude
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:43 am

#149 Post by Cinesimilitude » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:51 am

Gordon wrote:Yellow subs on a black and white film? Solution: turn the color down to zero on your TV. The R1 La Dolce Vita caused a furore when it was released, but the deluxe box edition has white subs apparently. Aye, just turn the color doon, folks! The yella subs on the R4 Red Desert were fucking annoying as fuck, though. Fucking cunts down in that Australia. :wink:
aww, well there goes my free dvds...

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skuhn8
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:46 pm
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#150 Post by skuhn8 » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:29 pm

Gordon wrote:Yellow subs on a black and white film? Solution: turn the color down to zero on your TV. The R1 La Dolce Vita caused a furore when it was released, but the deluxe box edition has white subs apparently. Aye, just turn the color doon, folks! The yella subs on the R4 Red Desert were fucking annoying as fuck, though. Fucking cunts down in that Australia. :wink:
Nice brogue, laddie. S'a 'boot time.

Now if the Canucks here would only follow every written sentence with ',eh' we can start getting some national definition on here--

SncDthMnky: For accidents in the future, replace your trash with my Post Office Box, eh?

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