65mm and other large-format transfers

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Gordon
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:03 am

#1 Post by Gordon » Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:16 pm

65mm transfers:

Warner
Battle of the Bulge (2.75:1 Ultra Panavision)
Ben Hur (4-disc) (2.75:1 Ultra Panavision) (new transfer is softer, less detailed than the previous cropped transfer)
Ryan's Daughter

Mutiny on the Bounty (1962) (2.75:1 Ultra Panavision) (coming soon)
Grand Prix (coming soon)
Brannagh's Hamlet (coming soon)
2001: A Space Odyssey (upcoming SE)
Is Around the World in Eighty Days from 65mm?

Fox
The Agony and the Ecstasy
Sound of Music (the latest transfer, though from 65mm, has been excessively filtered, but has far less edge-enhancement than the previous transfer)
Oklahoma! (Is the Todd-AO version from 65mm?)
The Bible ... In the Beginning (or was it from a 35mm reduction? 2.55:1 ratio)
Patton (new edition from 65mm? 2.21:1 ratio retained)

MGM
The Greatest Story Ever Told (2.75:1 Ultra Panavision)
Chitty Chitty Bang Bang's SE is in 2.21:1 and looks great and is probably from 65mm.
West Side Story is 2.21:1, but it's hard to tell if it's 65.


Sony
Lawrence of Arabia

MPI
Baraka


65mm films with good 35mm reduction transfers:
2001: A Space Odyssey (remastered version; 2.21:1 ratio retained)
My Fair Lady is from a 35mm reduction that retained the 2.21:1 ratio.
Cleopatra is 2.35:1, as opposed to the original 2.21:1 Todd-AO and the grain structure looks like a 35mm reduction.
Khartoum (shot in Ultra Panavision; DVD is from 2:35:1 35mm element)
Patton (original DVD)


65mm films with poor transfers:

Exodus (non-anamorphic 2.35:1, mono - RUBBISH!)
The Last Valley (Todd-AO 65mm 6-track; DVD from an average 35mm element and non-anamorphic and is in mono)
Krakatoa, East of Java, from MGM is non-anamorphic from a decent 35mm mono element.
South Pacific (2.21:1, though non-anamorphic and probably not from 65mm)
It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World (from 2.55:1 35mm reduction of shorter version)
The Alamo (original 65mm camera negative is unprintable; DVD is from 35mm interpositive of the shorter version)
War and Peace (1964-1968, Russia) (original 70mm negative could not be obtained from the Ukrainian archives, so Ruscico had to use a fairly good 35mm reduction, though the authoring is poor)


Technirama 8-perf 35mm transfers:

MGM
The Vikings (from 8-perf camera negative - gorgeous transfer!)
Zulu (USA edition) (which element was used?)
The Big Country (???)
The Pink Panther (???)
Sayonara (soft and non-anamorphic, so probably not from 8-perf)
Custer of the West (non-anamorphic from a decent 35mm element; crap film)

Criterion
Spartacus (Laserdisc and DVD) (2.21:1 65mm blow-up restoration negative was used)
The Leopard (from 8-perf camera negative)

Masters of Cinema
The Savage Innocents (???)

Warner
King of Kings (???)
The Music Man (???)

Sony
The Long Ships (rumoured to be from negative)

Paramount
Zulu (UK edition) (???)

Universal
Night Passage (first Technirama movie) (???)
Last edited by Gordon on Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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htom
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:57 pm

#2 Post by htom » Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:44 pm

Gordon McMurphy wrote:65mm transfers:

Is Around the World in Eighty Days from 65mm?
According to Steve Hoffman, all original Todd-AO prints are now faded beyond use, and the current DVD release is from the simultaneously shot 35mm edition.
Gordon McMurphy wrote:Oklahoma! (Is the Todd-AO version from 65mm?)
Pretty sure it is (30fps? Sure looks like it), but the print does suffer from some color density problems in places. Note the newer DVD has the simultaneously shot Cinemascope version on another disc, and apparently a poor anamorphic transfer of the Todd-AO version (looks worse than the first DVD?)...
Gordon McMurphy wrote:The Alamo (original 65mm camera negative is unprintable; DVD is from 35mm interpositive of the shorter version)


Wasn't the one extant print of the roadshow version used once for a Laserdisc version, then apparently destroyed through a bad restoration technique? I need to find where I heard this...

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Gordon
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:03 am

#3 Post by Gordon » Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:40 pm

htom wrote:According to Steve Hoffman, all original Todd-AO prints [of Around the World in Eighty Days] are now faded beyond use, and the current DVD release is from the simultaneously shot 35mm edition.
Who is Steve Hoffman? The film was shot simultaneously in 24 fps 65mm Todd-AO and 30 fps 65mm Todd-AO. Or is it that all 65mm elements are unusable and that 24 fps 35mm reduction elements had to be used? The DVD transfer is definitely 2.21:1, judging from screen caps.
Gordon McMurphy wrote:The Alamo (original 65mm camera negative is unprintable; DVD is from 35mm interpositive of the shorter version)
htom wrote:Wasn't the one extant print of the roadshow version used once for a Laserdisc version, then apparently destroyed through a bad restoration technique? I need to find where I heard this...
Film restorer, Robert Harris has spoke of this film on a few occassions in interviews and over at HTF. A 65 or 70mm roadshow version element was used for LD, but was later negligently stored in poor conditions and it is was deemed unprojectable/unprintable, when Harris later went to look at it for a possible restoration, though a 4k digital scan and refurbishment might be possible.

BTW, does anyone know what kind of element was used for Paramount's R2 UK edition of Zulu? And what did MGM use for their R1 edition? The film is in the public domain. It was shot in Technirama, ie. 8-perforation, 1.5x anamorphic 35mm, with a 1.50:1 (2.25:1 when unsqueezed) negative ratio. Both the Paramount and MGM editions look superb, the MGM looking slightly sharper, with Paramount winning on extras.

Also, which VistaVision films have transfers from a prime 8-perf element?

Warner

The Searchers (new Special Edition was transfered in HD from the black and white 8-perf masters, using Warner's Ultra-Resolution process)


Paramount

Lonely Man (shot in B&W; transfered in HD from the original master positive finegrain)
Gunfight at the O.K. Corral (transfered in HD from a new 8-perf internegative, created from recombined 8-perf yellow-cyan-magneta [YCM] separation masters and sections of the 8-perf camera negative and color-corrected by Cinetech)

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miless
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:45 pm

#4 Post by miless » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:16 pm

I believe that Vertigo was transfered using a 65mm print, as the film was shot using VistaVision (horizontal 35mm)

other hitchcock's shot on VistaVision are:
North By NorthWest
The Man Who Knew Too Much
The Trouble With Harry
To Catch a Thief

but from what I can gather, these were transfered using 35mm prints

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htom
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:57 pm

#5 Post by htom » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:48 pm

Gordon McMurphy wrote:
htom wrote:According to Steve Hoffman, all original Todd-AO prints [of Around the World in Eighty Days] are now faded beyond use, and the current DVD release is from the simultaneously shot 35mm edition.
Who is Steve Hoffman? The film was shot simultaneously in 24 fps 65mm Todd-AO and 30 fps 65mm Todd-AO. Or is it that all 65mm elements are unusable and that 24 fps 35mm reduction elements had to be used? The DVD transfer is definitely 2.21:1, judging from screen caps.
Steve Hoffman is currently a mastering engineer for audiophile vinyl and CD releases, but he also worked extensively in film archives as well. The folllowing thread may be of interest regarding Around The World In 80 Days, starting with post #14:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showt ... ge=1&pp=20

However, also note that post #1 did note a recent screening of a 30fps print of the film, but presumably not the original roadshow print.

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Gordon
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:03 am

#6 Post by Gordon » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:23 pm

Hoffman states that the original long roadshow version is, for all intents and purposes, lost. That is a ridiculous state of affairs for a Best Picture Oscar winning film. The 65mm 30fps version is conformed to the 1968 reissue cut. He also says that the 24fps and 30fps negative trims are mixed together in a box- ARGH! Not a favourite film of mine, but undoubtedly an important film.

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