Olympia (Leni Riefenstahl, 1938)

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Tommaso
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am

#26 Post by Tommaso » Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:39 am

Much as I sympathize with Sharphedin's views, I think we must differentiate between a 'poor' presentation due to damaged original materials and a poor presentation because of carelessness on the producers part. I can completely understand if a small company is not able financially to restore a film and thus has to present it with scratches and dirt etc., at least, if there is indeed no restored version available (as is the case with "Olympia", but apparently isn't with "The White Flame"). If they then do a good transfer of these only available materials, very fine. That's why I defended the 101 Fanck releases: horrible materials, but well transferred to DVD.

But it is a totally different thing if a company simply ruins a film because of carelessness or utter stupidity. Examples for this would be the removal of original intertitles, PAL/NTSC-ghosting, burnt-in subs, wrong aspect ratio, compression artefacts etc. etc. And this should be totally unexceptable even if you are still able to have some viewing pleasure. After all, they want our money, and I'm not going to buy a dvd anymore that is clearly behind modern standards in THESE respects. I don't want them to earn twice when they finally bring out a decent version five years later (best example: "Raise the red lantern" by Zhang Yimou) although they could have done it right way back then. That's why I enjoy the coming re-release of "Seven Samurai" (because they could not have made it better in 1998) but will still be angry at Criterion about "Yoyimbo/Sanjuro" (which they simply fecked-up way back in 2000, unnecessarily).

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Scharphedin2
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#27 Post by Scharphedin2 » Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:14 am

Tommaso wrote: I think we must differentiate between a 'poor' presentation due to damaged original materials and a poor presentation because of carelessness on the producers part.
In the interest of objectivity, and after looking at the disc on my labtop, I can safely say that the presentation of Olympia has both problems going for it. The extent to which this is carelessness on the producer's part, I simply do not know enough about the process of producing DVDs, or the challenges faced by Pathfinder in this specific case, to conclude that this is the reason for these issues.

It would be great to hear Pathfinder talk about this release in a forum like this one. I have great respect for Peerpee and Bikey commenting upon the challenges that they have occassionally had to face, and in some cases succumb to, in transferring films to DVD for the Masters of Cinema and Second Run series repectively.

JanPB
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#28 Post by JanPB » Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:45 am

Two typical frame grabs:

Image
Image

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Tommaso
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#29 Post by Tommaso » Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:12 am

Many thanks!
I'm not sure of course whether this footage is indeed in the existing R2 version, but if it is, it is clearly inferior. Looks really disappointing, I suspect a lot of contrast boosting...

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editman
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#30 Post by editman » Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:36 am

Finally watched it today. VHS quality is rather an understatement. The films are infected with digital artefacts (I'm talking about blocky pictures even on an interlaced TV tube), tape source dropouts, you name it. How dare they make disc 1, a near-2-hour film, a DVD-5: 4.36GB. Disc 2 is 6.76GB but that includes deleted/alternate scenes, two shorts (33 minutes and 12 minutes) and some trailers.

Hate to say this, but Criterion really blew it for losing the rights to release Olympia on DVD. Pathfinder's offering is barely acceptable, sheerly for the bonus materials, for one who's been wanting to see these beautiful films for 12 years. The transfer's truly appalling, however you put it.

Along with Bilitis, two titles that deserves way better digital video treatments.

TCB
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#31 Post by TCB » Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:36 am

I'm teaching a course on Leni Riefenstahl at my university next semester, and I've come across an opportunity to get the Criterion laserdisc of "Olympia" for a fairly decent price (the owner claims that it's opened but never used, with no laser rot). I've got the Pathfinder DVD, and it's not terribly good (and downright rotten in places), and I wanted to know if anyone could comment on the quality of the LD at all- how the image is, the quality of the features, etc. If anyone has any information, I'd greatly appreciate it (even if it's just links to a review, that'd be helpful!). Thanks!

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HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

#32 Post by HerrSchreck » Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:08 am

Does anyone own the Kinowelt-Arte DVD? Particularly as it compares to the R1?

I too have the Pathfinder and the first disc is such an insult.

TCB
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#33 Post by TCB » Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:27 pm

Seriously, I think "insult" is a great term for these discs. I appreciate that they're bringing such hard-to-find material to the public, but must they do it so crappily? I need the Riefenstahl discs to teach my class, but other than Synapse's "Triumph" and the Kino Mountain Film discs, there's slim pickings out there. I'd love to see some great new Riefenstahl's out there, especially with the two new major biographies that came out in the past 2 months.

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HerrSchreck
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#34 Post by HerrSchreck » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:47 am

It really is a disgrace considering the price tag on the Pathfinder, and the fact that this locks the title out of R1 in a potentially better transfer due to their rights acquisition. This is like a really really bad rip from an old VHS on some nitwit's home computer, with the screen breaking into those huge image blocks. Much more than just preconversion issues (which are there to boot!) throwing in an extra frame here & there. Chroma hell as well. Analog swamp. I think Colonel Wrigley of the fine British Empire should lace on his jump boots and leather jacket and jump in on this and give us an R2 on this.

It's really not possible to understate Riefenstahl's monstrous talent & achievement the moment she got behind a camera. From the repetitive drill of acting in mountain films & observing Fanck execute his mise en scene viz a mostly nailed-down light debrie camera (albeit providing some of the absolute finest outdoor photography bar none), this young lady simply exploded into geniusville damn near overnight. BLUE LIGHT isn't necessarily a masterpiece per se, but a very well made and painterly (atmospheric for sure) film nontheless.

Of course it helps to be assigned virtual armies of some of the most venerable camera operators left in Germany for her "event" spectacles of TRIUMPH & OLYMPIA-- as well as the means to easily realize on the grandest possible scale whatever astonishing technical innovation her heart and eye desired (the elevators, the long lenses, the fast film, the endless miles of track... not to mention the legions of cameras, arcs, staff support, plus unimpeded access etc)-- but without a genius bursting in aesthetic (particularly editorial) as well as organizational terms, these films could have devolved into uninspiring messes.

A shame her career virtually snapped off like a light after WW2, but it seems inevitable, despite her lack of party membership, given the direction of the social winds after the war that the maker of TRIUMPH would run into problems with finance & distribution.

There's actually a terribly sad-- very moving, yet an exposition of extraordinary strength-- moment in the IMMODERATION IN ME (2002)extra on the PIZ PALU by Kino (it's her final interview, and was given upon the event of her 100th bday & the release of her last diving film) where she says that she wished she had died at the peak of her talent. The interviewer asks her when that would have been. Leni says "In 1939 when the war broke out," and goes on to elucidate the torment of 60+ years of miserable accusation and lack of work. Yet she never stopped moving forward and trying to be creative.. a shame that she never got escape the demons of her past and reformulate on a New Grand Scale a postwar Riefenstahl.. even if it were for small arthouse films of sublime beauty-- something on a par with BLUE LIGHT etc. I could see her making a film like Eric Valli's HIMALAYA, even in her very vigorous 70's, 80's & 90's. But her relegation to endless beating away of Hitler & Goebbel's ghosts seems inevitable. Sad, and a waste of an explosive talent, though she of course always kept herself busy in what seemed to be somewhat satisfying personal terms. And she of course knew how deeply she was admired despite the hex on her, which eased the pain to some degree I'm sure.

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exte
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#35 Post by exte » Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:45 am

Herr, is it possible you can youtube that interview clip? I find it striking to say the least that a woman who got to be 100 years of age wanted to die in 1939. That's just awful. I can't imagine the misery she's referring to. Actually has she ever lifted her guard about that? I thought she was notoriously mum about it, no? I wonder when and if her biopic will come out. Who would direct it? Who would have the courage? Jodie Foster? With all the shit that comes out about WWII these days, this would be a genuinely interesting topic. I mean, really, pretty soon were going to see "WWII Sneakers" on the history channel. "Was Hitler a tennis shoes man?" How about Roman Polanski, maybe?

BTW, regarding the topic, I have the old German dvd of Olympia, I think both parts. If not, then the second part, since I think that's the more famous. Anyway, it looked sharp as hell. Being a criterion laserdisc nut, I unfortunately don't know the quality of that release, though I'm sure it's just fine. It didn't seem like the German disc was digitally cleaned up or anything... I cannot find a link to it now, though I tried searching at amazon.de. The best of luck with this...
Last edited by exte on Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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HerrSchreck
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#36 Post by HerrSchreck » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:03 am

Look a few posts up, I provided a link to the Kinowelt Arte dvdfrom amazon.de.

On the uploading to YouTube thing, naw, it's not my bag-- never done that before. I wouldn't even know how to do it. Anyhow, the restored, stunning PIZ PALU is worth owning, and as the extra is Riefenstahl's final interview, if you're a fan of her work, the disc is just a no-brainer. The image quality is quite good, you get great extras for your buck (versus many of the barebones Kino releases from 05/06, though to be fair almost all their Fanck/Riefenstahl discs have good extras from rare shorts to alternate entire versions like ICEBERG) Review at DVDTalk/Savant

And yes, the idea of 2/3's of a 100+ yr old woman's life being "unhappy surplus" is just dizzyingly sad. She actually had moments of incredibly deep candor-- mixed with a staunch sense of a line where public & private life meet, and that she will not breach. But in terms of personal purpose, her feeling of not having lived up to her potential for over sixty years, ach, it's so painful it almost makes you woozy. However her strength & charisma are magnetic and utterly compelling.

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exte
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#37 Post by exte » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:08 am

HerrSchreck wrote:Look a few posts up, I provided a link to the Kinowelt Arte dvdfrom amazon.de.
Mine doesn't look like that and was more expensive. That was years ago, though, so maybe just the cover changed. I don't know, all my stuff is boxed up. Like I said, I can't find any supporting cover art online... By the way, that review doesn't hint at all at the painful confession you mentioned. They always seem to be on autopilot over there at dvdtalk...
HerrSchreck wrote:And yes, the idea of 2/3's of a 100+ yr old woman's life being "unhappy surplus" is just dizzyingly sad. She actually had moments of incredibly deep candor-- mixed with a staunch sense of a line where public & private life meet, and that she will not breach. But in terms of personal purpose, her feeling of not having lived up to her potential for over sixty years, ach, it's so painful it almost makes you woozy. However her strength & charisma are magnetic and utterly compelling.
But HerrSchreck, you think we will ever see a biopic on her that will do her justice? In our lifetime?
Last edited by exte on Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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HerrSchreck
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#38 Post by HerrSchreck » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:15 am

J Foster apparently wanted to-- but I don't think the forces of American Filmmaking are filled with the goodwill or the courage to make the film in the first place.. not to mention the kind of film we'd like to see.

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Tommaso
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#39 Post by Tommaso » Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:11 am

They just changed the cover design for the arte/Kinowelt and box-setted it, but it's still the same dvd. Not the greatest highpoint in film restoration or dvd transferring, but more than acceptable, and judging from the caps above, certainly miles ahead of the Pathfinder. The problem with all "Olympia" dvds is that they invariably feature the re-cut version Leni made in the 60s in order to make it possible to show the film again in Germany. Thus, the Olympic Oath which these sportsmen did greeting Hitler and some other scenes showing the Nazi flag are cut. Apparently the Pathfinder doesn't restore these either.

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porquenegar
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#40 Post by porquenegar » Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:38 am

HerrSchreck wrote:Look a few posts up, I provided a link to the Kinowelt Arte dvdfrom amazon.de.
Does this have English subs? I'm right smack in the middle of reading Leni Riefenstahl: A Memoir and I absolutely have to see this soon.

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Tommaso
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#41 Post by Tommaso » Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:17 am

davidhare wrote:It may be perverse but Im not at all let down by the omission of Leni's Fuhrer Oath scene - surely this is why Olympia is more digestable than Triumph?
It's certainly much more digestable, regardless of the oath scene being included or not. "Triumph", once you've gotten past the initial bafflement of seeing the first pop video ever made, becomes incredibly boring, and the stylistic innovations in my view are not as spectacularly new as is sometimes said (most of it can be seen in Eisenstein and Vertov as well). The cut of the oath scene is problematic in "Olympia" simply because it undermines the 'documentary' aspect of the film that Riefenstahl rightly or not has always claimed having been her major interest. Cutting this made it possible not least for the IOC and other sports organisations to re-claim the film as a pure sports film, thus 'erasing' everything else that went along with it. Much in agreement about what you say about contemporary politics and media, though, but censoring the film fits into the picture very well. "Just don't show the people too openly how it's done"...

Porquenegar: no, there are no subs on the arthaus edition, but probably you don't really need them. The only words spoken are those of the commentators announcing the sportsmen and a few comments on how the individual competitions are going. Not essential for understanding the film, as you can see that from the images alone.

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porquenegar
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#42 Post by porquenegar » Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:53 pm

Tommaso wrote:Porquenegar: no, there are no subs on the arthaus edition, but probably you don't really need them. The only words spoken are those of the commentators announcing the sportsmen and a few comments on how the individual competitions are going. Not essential for understanding the film, as you can see that from the images alone.
Thanks, that's what I thought.

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jsteffe
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#43 Post by jsteffe » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:01 pm

TCB wrote:I've come across an opportunity to get the Criterion laserdisc of "Olympia" for a fairly decent price (the owner claims that it's opened but never used, with no laser rot). I've got the Pathfinder DVD, and it's not terribly good (and downright rotten in places)
Did you ever pick up the laserdisc? Just curious. To my eyes the old Criterion laserdisc looks better than the Pathfinder DVD, which I think looks like utter crap. An incredible amount of chroma noise in some places, and positively crawling with artifacts. In fact, I actually *sold* the Pathfinder disc on Amazon because I didn't even want to see it on the shelf!

Poor quality source materials can't always be helped, but at least one can pay a little attention to the encoding/compression process.

This reminds me of how disappointed I was to pick up the Wellspring/Fox Lorber DVD of BREATHLESS. I ended up showing the old Criterion laserdisc to my students because, once again, it looked a lot better!

yoshimori
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#44 Post by yoshimori » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:40 am

Next week, apparently, a3 disc Riefenstahl set, including Olympia, is coming out in Korea. English subs announced.

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tojoed
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Re: Olympia (Leni Riefenstahl, 1938)

#45 Post by tojoed » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:16 am

In July Alba Home Vision are releasing Olympiad in the UK. I don't know anything about them, except they say they are specialists in Military History.

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TMDaines
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Re: Olympia (Leni Riefenstahl, 1938)

#46 Post by TMDaines » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:45 am

We can only hope.

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Peacock
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Re: Olympia (Leni Riefenstahl, 1938)

#47 Post by Peacock » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:50 am

I hope they port the German disk but add subs or the english cut. This film will forever remain in my all time top ten.

Class316
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Re: Olympia (Leni Riefenstahl, 1938)

#48 Post by Class316 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:29 pm

I know that Pathfinder version is crap, but I can't find reviews of these two. Although they seem to be DVD-Rs! Here is the UK version coming out. Is this an official Korean version? Wonder how that transfer is.

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jsteffe
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Re: Olympia (Leni Riefenstahl, 1938)

#49 Post by jsteffe » Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:45 pm

tojoed wrote:In July Alba Home Vision are releasing Olympiad in the UK. I don't know anything about them, except they say they are specialists in Military History.
Not a good sign, unless they tell you directly that they licensed such-and-such transfer.

Class316
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Re: Olympia (Leni Riefenstahl, 1938)

#50 Post by Class316 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:06 pm

UK version seems to be out.

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