It looks like it will be 58 mins as most sites about the film as opposed to the DVD list it as such (Cinematheque,Albatross etc). Furthermore the 'touring' print as used by DJ Cam for his electronic score, to a very mixed reception, is also 58 mins.Jonathan S wrote:According to the Amazon listing, this edition of Cagliostro runs only 58 minutes, about the same length as my abridged (four-reel) 9.5mm transfer. Does anyone know how long original prints were and whether any survive?
I suppose the Amazon listing could be incorrect - they give the director as Richard's son, Gerd!
Silent Film on DVD and BD
- NABOB OF NOWHERE
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Re: Silent Film on DVD
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Re: Silent Film on DVD
Thanks for checking. If it's running at 24fps (as I'd expect from a very late silent) it should be more complete than the 9.5mm print, which I now see is only 3 reels, transferred too slowly. But it's a very lavish French-German co-production (Albatros needed additional financing) so I'd expect it to have been nearer two hours originally.
- Tommaso
- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am
Re: Silent Film on DVD
I suppose it doesn't survive completely. But I assume it will come from a totally different print than the 9.5 mm version, which had English intertitles, and so many of them that watching it really didn't make a lot of sense.
- NABOB OF NOWHERE
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Re: Silent Film on DVD
If you read French, here's a link from the Carné site which I guess will be reproduced in the DVD booklet
- Ann Harding
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Re: Silent Film on DVD
Jonathan, you are right. Cagliostro only survives in abridged prints. The new DVD will therefore be a reduced version. The original print was 2850 m long (104 min at 24fps or 125 min at 20fps). The CF only has a 1420 m print, roughly half the original length.Jonathan S wrote:Thanks for checking. If it's running at 24fps (as I'd expect from a very late silent) it should be more complete than the 9.5mm print, which I now see is only 3 reels, transferred too slowly. But it's a very lavish French-German co-production (Albatros needed additional financing) so I'd expect it to have been nearer two hours originally.
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Re: Silent Film on DVD
Many thanks. So does this DVD of Cagliostro use the CF print, and is that all - or mainly - 35mm rather than (for example) blown-up 9.5mm? If so, it looks like we'll at least have half the film in improved quality rather than the quarter Pathescope issued for 1930s home cinemas!
In other news, I just received the new Silent Wagner DVD, which is in fact Carl Froelich's rather tableaux-like 1913 biopic Richard Wagner, here running 81 minutes. I had a 1990s off-air recording from German TV, but this is a much improved, tinted transfer.
The drawback is this release really is silent - no music at all! (I guess you can always accompany it with an orchestral Wagner CD.) Also, the intertitles have been remade in English, and white digital speckles and scratches have been digitally introduced to these titles, presumably to match the condition of the film! There is an option to play with a commentary by film-maker Tony Palmer, but the part I sampled came over as a bit inane ("Ooh look, it's changed colour again!") But for anyone interested in Wagner or very early feature films, it's a must. The disc is an all-region NTSC release, so I presume the US release will be identical.
In other news, I just received the new Silent Wagner DVD, which is in fact Carl Froelich's rather tableaux-like 1913 biopic Richard Wagner, here running 81 minutes. I had a 1990s off-air recording from German TV, but this is a much improved, tinted transfer.
The drawback is this release really is silent - no music at all! (I guess you can always accompany it with an orchestral Wagner CD.) Also, the intertitles have been remade in English, and white digital speckles and scratches have been digitally introduced to these titles, presumably to match the condition of the film! There is an option to play with a commentary by film-maker Tony Palmer, but the part I sampled came over as a bit inane ("Ooh look, it's changed colour again!") But for anyone interested in Wagner or very early feature films, it's a must. The disc is an all-region NTSC release, so I presume the US release will be identical.
- Tommaso
- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am
Re: Silent Film on DVD
I didn't know about this "Wagner" release at all, so many thanks! But if you read the description of the US release at amazon, then you'll find the following: "The music has been fully restored and sounds resplendent in stereo." Well, so this has music then, and it's hard to imagine that your version hasn't. Very strange.
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Re: Silent Film on DVD
Interesting... perhaps the US release is different then, but my DVD begins with a FBI warning! Or maybe mine is faulty - there are two tracks but the non-commentary one is definitely silent (I checked again). I think Criterion and other companies sometimes issue a mute option (say, with Japanese silents), though.
There's no mention of music anywhere in the blurb or credits on the sleeve - and there are plenty credits for people involved in the production of the DVD rather than the original film. The Amazon and sleeve descriptions are almost identical (even down to adding a 's' to "Griffith") except for that sentence you quote about the music, so possibly they decided to omit it at the last minute. If anyone buys the US edition, please let us know...
There's no mention of music anywhere in the blurb or credits on the sleeve - and there are plenty credits for people involved in the production of the DVD rather than the original film. The Amazon and sleeve descriptions are almost identical (even down to adding a 's' to "Griffith") except for that sentence you quote about the music, so possibly they decided to omit it at the last minute. If anyone buys the US edition, please let us know...
- Ann Harding
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Re: Silent Film on DVD
I have heard that the only extant print was the 9.5 mm one. So, it might be that the CF print is just a blow-up.Jonathan S wrote:Many thanks. So does this DVD of Cagliostro use the CF print, and is that all - or mainly - 35mm rather than (for example) blown-up 9.5mm? If so, it looks like we'll at least have half the film in improved quality rather than the quarter Pathescope issued for 1930s home cinemas!
Edit: after checking in the old CF programme from last year, I can confirm that their print was made from a Pathé-Baby print.
- NABOB OF NOWHERE
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:30 pm
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Re: Silent Film on DVD
Hey Jonathan. Not so shabby by all accounts - see the captures here
http://www.ecranlarge.com/dvd_review-list-13298.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.ecranlarge.com/dvd_review-list-13298.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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- Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:31 am
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Re: Silent Film on DVD
Yes, they are impressive frame-grabs given the 9.5mm source, much better than the home-made video transfer my late friend and 9.5mm expert Gerald McKee sent me years ago. Pathescope released their three-reel cutdown in 1931, so they were probably able to work from materials in fine condition, perhaps even the original negative? I expect the CF were able to pick and choose from several 9.5mm copies, but Gerald wrote (of the Pathescope releases generally) in his book A Half-Century of Film Collecting:
Gerald also wrote about the topless scene illustrated (rather copiously!) in those framegrabs:
I'd forgotten the 9.5mm release of Cagliostro was "notched" which means the many intertitles (including all those added to explain the plot holes in the abridgement) were only a few frames each - the "notches" causing the projector to freeze-frame on them - so they took up very little actual film. This means there is probably the equivalent of four reels of the 35mm release in the three-reel 9.5mm version which, together with the restored intertitles, accounts for the 1420m length Ann mentions in the CF print.Printing standards were high. The projected images were notably steady and the photographic quality was remarkable for its high definition and excellent gradation.
Gerald also wrote about the topless scene illustrated (rather copiously!) in those framegrabs:
Such scenes were rare on the screen in this country [UK], at the time of its 9.5mm release. The previous owner of my copy was so taken with this shot that he notched several frames, both on the correct side, and the wrong side as well!
- NABOB OF NOWHERE
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:30 pm
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Re: Silent Film on DVD
Hence the expression top(less) notch no doubt.
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- hearthesilence
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
- Location: NYC
Re: Silent Film on DVD
Haha, nice! I was wondering how they'd reissue this restoration, given its length. FWIW, I saw it at MoMA, where it was screened twice with two different scores - first Air's (which I think was commissioned for the restoration), then a live piano score (very 'traditional' courtesy of Serge Bromberg of Lobster Films) accompanied by a reading of the narration that was originally written for the film. Anyway, fun and interesting to see how such an early film would've been presented back in the day.
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- Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:31 am
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Re: Silent Film on DVD
According to this LA Times article:
The 65-minute documentary is also mentioned in this Variety article.France's Serge Bromberg, who founded Lobster Films in 1984, is a film historian who has been tireless in his efforts to find, preserve and show vintage films. In September, Bromberg presented the restored color print of "A Trip to the Moon," a project he led, at the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. He's worked for over a year on "The Extraordinary Voyage," a documentary on "A Trip to the Moon" chronicling its production and how the long-lost color print was discovered and restored. "The Extraordinary Voyage" will come out on DVD next year along with "A Trip to the Moon."
- Gregory
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:07 pm
Re: Silent Film on DVD
It's a shame the restored color Trip to the Moon will not be included in Flicker Alley's refurbished First Wizard of Cinema set. I'd be surprised if they didn't revisit it in the near future in another release, in connection with what Jonathan mentioned.
- Ann Harding
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Re: Silent Film on DVD
Some bad news from Arte TV. The monthly silent is going to be reduced from 12 films/year to 8 films only...
Last edited by Ann Harding on Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Tommaso
- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am
Re: Silent Film on DVD
Indeed horrible news and a further step on arte's way to ever-increasing commercialization. Where did you find that info? Would be good if I could get some source before posting the info in the German silent film forum to create a little wave of protest there....
- Ann Harding
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Re: Silent Film on DVD
The info comes from the Arte website where people can ask questions directly to the programmers:
Click here.
Hello, silent cinema doesn't disappear from Arte's new schedule. But only 8 films will be broadcast instead of 12 last year. They will be broadcast the last Tuesday of the month, late at night. Thanks for your loyalty.
Click here.
Translation:Bonjour,
Le cinéma muet ne disparaît pas de la nouvelle grille d'Arte mais huit films seront programmés en 2012 contre douze l'an dernier. Ils seront diffusés le dernier mardi soir du mois, en dernière partie de soirée.
Merci pour votre fidélité
Hello, silent cinema doesn't disappear from Arte's new schedule. But only 8 films will be broadcast instead of 12 last year. They will be broadcast the last Tuesday of the month, late at night. Thanks for your loyalty.
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- Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:12 am
Re: Silent Film on DVD
No need to buy the Air album now! Lobster Films are releasing Le voyage dans la lune on Blu-Ray - April 26th
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- Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:31 am
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Re: Silent Film on DVD
An American member of Nitrateville, who bought the "Silent Wagner" DVD [Richard Wagner, 1913] from Amazon.com, has confirmed that it's the same as the one I bought in the UK, i.e. no music at all, so the Amazon description (which is still there) is incorrect.Tommaso wrote:I didn't know about this "Wagner" release at all, so many thanks! But if you read the description of the US release at amazon, then you'll find the following: "The music has been fully restored and sounds resplendent in stereo." Well, so this has music then, and it's hard to imagine that your version hasn't. Very strange.
Incidentally, I discovered that the DVD adds at least one extra shot censored in the German TV print of the film I had - Wagner bathing and getting out of the tub, his nude body seen in silhouette through a screen!
- Ann Harding
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Re: Silent Film on DVD
News about the release of three Raymond Bernard silent features have already been posted on the Bernard thread. But Gaumont plans also to joins forces with Pathé to release two boxsets per year of silent features. Great news!
- L.A.
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Re: Silent Film on DVD
looking for silent japanese and other asian movies on dvd (if they are on netflix too).
- knives
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