Warner and Welles

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Lino
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#1 Post by Lino » Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:27 pm

Let's make this the definitive Warner Bros/Orson Welles speculation/discussion thread.

As from the last chat, Warner are suposedly still searching for better elements of The Magnificent Ambersons and Journey into Fear, so it's safe to assume that these two will (eventually) come out on DVD sooner or later (let's hope the former).

Apart from a very good edition of his landmark film, Citizen Kane, which other Welles films does Warner owns the right to? The Stranger is also an RKO title, so does that mean that Warner owns it? And what about all the other major Welles like The Trial, or Macbeth or even Chimes at Midnight? Are they in some kind of DVD limbo in the US?

I will leave you with a link to the original theatrical trailer for The Trial. It's a beautifully edited piece of work that deserves your attention and having not yet seen the feature film myself, it's now climbed to the top of my yet-to-see-but-want-it-very-badly-now list:

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0057427/trailers

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tryavna
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#2 Post by tryavna » Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:15 pm

Considering all the crappy editions of The Stranger and The Trial that exist, I'm assuming that these have slipped into public domain and continue to languish there. Fortunately, The Trial has received two good releases: In R1-land, Milestone released a now-OOP edition several years ago; TCM regularly shows that print (probably about every third month). In R2-land, Studio Canal released an even better edition in France. DVD Beaver has reviewed it, and you can pick it up from Amazon.fr. Unfortunately, none of the extras have English subs.

I don't have editions of The Stranger, so I don't know which one to recommend there.

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otis
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#3 Post by otis » Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:36 pm

Jean-Luc Godard wrote:Soyons maudits si nous oublions une seconde qu'il est le seul avec Griffith, qui le muet, qui le parlent, d'avoir fait demarrer ce merveilleux petit train electrique auquel ne croyait Lumière. Tous, toujours, lui devront tout.
Thanks to the trailer, Annie. Interesting to see a brief clip of the computer scene with Katina Paxinou that Orson cut out at the last minute. I haven't seen the film for 20 years, but it'd make a great double-bill with Alphaville.

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Lino
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#4 Post by Lino » Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:48 pm

The UK apparently have very good editions of both Macbeth and Othello that were taken from restored elements. Second Sight Films is the company distributing them.

Image
From the Back Cover
This fully restored Macbeth is the original version produced and directed by Orson Welles.In a bid for commerciality,the studio later trimmed the film by twenty minutes and redubbed the Scottish accents employed by Welles and his cast.This tampering with his work would come as no surprise to a director growing disillusioned with a Hollywood that tampered with all his films after Citizen Kane. Welles shot the film in just 21 days in the summer on 1947,at the small 'B'movie studio Republic.Here he believed was the perfect environment in which to undertake his first Shakesperian project for the screen.The result was powerful,intense and distinctively Welles.From the omnious encounter with the witches to the fateful marching of Birnam to Dunsinane,Wellesm the director captured the very essence of this,Shakespear's darkest play.With typically expressive use of camera,Welles conjured up a claustrophobic world,where Welles the actor portrayed an increasingly deranged Macbeth. One of Welles'filmmaking experiments in Macbeth was a ten minute take,subsequently edited when Republic shortened the film for general release.In 1980,a film archivist in America discovered half the reels of the original version on a high grade stock,among which was this 'one take' reel.After sourcing the missing footage from elsewhere,he was able to create a high quality,restored version of Macbeth,as Welles had intended it to be seen.In this complete form,it remains on of the most powerful and atmospheric of the many screen adaptations of Shakespeare..
Image
DVD Features:
• Special Feature Information:
° Restoring Othello Feature
° Restored Othello Trailers
° Production Stills
° Orson Welles Short Film Return To Glannascaul
• Aspect Ratio: 4:3
• Available Audio Tracks: Dolby Digital Stereo
• Main Language: English
Synopsis
The story of a man driven mad by the power of his self-contained emotion. A Shakespearean classic. Orson Welles' production began in 1948 but with money in short supply the production took a further four years to complete. An original negative found in 1992 allowed a restoration project to begin.

I'm surprised Gary over at the Beaver hasn't got himself around to comparing these two.

yoshimori
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#5 Post by yoshimori » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:09 pm

davidhare wrote:BTW who if anyone bought the Studio Canal Falstaff/Chimes at Midnight?
I and, apparently, a couple others have it. Check this thread.

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J Wilson
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#6 Post by J Wilson » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:01 am

Chips_Critic wrote:Something you might want to know if you were thinking of buying it: The Warner R2 The Trial (a British bare-bones release featuring a StudioCanal logo on the front, which leads me to assume it's a port of the Canal transfer) has two reels swapped around, and is missing a line (the female Law Office worker's reference to not being able to breath the air outside)
I have only seen the French Studio Canal disc, and not the Warner UK disc, but the French release does not have the problems you mention here.

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HerrSchreck
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#7 Post by HerrSchreck » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:07 am

tryavna wrote:Considering all the crappy editions of The Stranger and The Trial that exist, I'm assuming that these have slipped into public domain and continue to languish there. Fortunately, The Trial has received two good releases: In R1-land, Milestone released a now-OOP edition several years ago; TCM regularly shows that print (probably about every third month). In R2-land, Studio Canal released an even better edition in France. DVD Beaver has reviewed it, and you can pick it up from Amazon.fr. Unfortunately, none of the extras have English subs.

I don't have editions of The Stranger, so I don't know which one to recommend there.
I saw a beautifully restored print at NYC's Film Forum this past summer (or thereabouts... maybe a bit earlier) of THE STRANGER, along with LADY FROM SHANGHAI, both beautifully restored prints from Rialto-- their usual high quality. Gorgeous elements exist, and held very close to the Criterion vest... I'd keep both eyes open this year...

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Lino
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#8 Post by Lino » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:10 pm

HerrSchreck wrote: I saw a beautifully restored print at NYC's Film Forum this past summer (or thereabouts... maybe a bit earlier) of THE STRANGER, along with LADY FROM SHANGHAI, both beautifully restored prints from Rialto-- their usual high quality. Gorgeous elements exist, and held very close to the Criterion vest... I'd keep both eyes open this year...
But isn't Lady from Shanghai already out on DVD from Columbia? The Stranger however, could use a decent edition from either Criterion or Warner.

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tryavna
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#9 Post by tryavna » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:22 pm

Annie Mall wrote:
HerrSchreck wrote: I saw a beautifully restored print at NYC's Film Forum this past summer (or thereabouts... maybe a bit earlier) of THE STRANGER, along with LADY FROM SHANGHAI, both beautifully restored prints from Rialto-- their usual high quality. Gorgeous elements exist, and held very close to the Criterion vest... I'd keep both eyes open this year...
But isn't Lady from Shanghai already out on DVD from Columbia? The Stranger however, could use a decent edition from either Criterion or Warner.
Yep, Columbia's release of Lady is pretty darn good. Again, Beaver's review is a good source of evaluative info here.

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Lino
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#10 Post by Lino » Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:27 am

Watched The Stranger this week because this thread ignited my interest in some Welles that I still haven't seen.

I have to say: the first half hour must rank up there as the most riveting first half for a movie that I've seen in many a moon! What a relentless rhythm - it never lets go and there is so much talent on display, it's mindboggling! Bravura camera work, a sort of teasing way of storytelling, wonderful cinematography, everything comes together beautifully.

Of course, it loses some steam midway (and I'm kind of glad, or it would be just too much for me to take in one seating as my mind was reeling all the time) but the inevitable chase at the end doesn't disappoint, thankfully.

This movie deserves the works on a future DVD treatment (fingers crossed that a major company picks this up from PD hell).

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pzman84
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#11 Post by pzman84 » Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:22 pm

Anyone know if there is any possibility they can find the missing 20 minutes of The Stranger or is it gone, like so many of Welles's films.

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Lino
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#12 Post by Lino » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:36 am

What is it with Welles films? I admit my ignorance about their troubled history (I do know about the whole Ambersons business) but has every film he ever made after Kane been cut or messed around by the studios behind them?

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J Wilson
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#13 Post by J Wilson » Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:25 am

The missing footage from THE STRANGER is probably long gone. And he did make films after KANE that were as he intended, which were OTHELLO, FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH (TV pilot), THE TRIAL, CHIMES AT MIDNIGHT, THE IMMORTAL STORY, and F FOR FAKE. And MACBETH survives in his original cut, though it wasn't released that way.

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Lino
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#14 Post by Lino » Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:54 am

Ok, so to sum it up and kind of serve as reference for all of you out there like me who are trying to keep up with the best DVD versions of Welles' films, here it is, a dynamic list:

Citizen Kane
(1941) - go for the Warner R1
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdcompar ... enkane.htm

The Magnificent Ambersons (1942) - go for the french Montparnasse edition (or wait for the inevitable Warner R1 release)
http://www.dvdclassik.com/Critiques/dvd ... berson.htm

The Stranger (1946) - go for the MGM R2 (for the moment)
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare2/stranger5.htm

The Lady from Shanghai (1947) - go for the Columbia R1
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/Reviews/l ... i.htm#lady

Macbeth
(1948) - go for the french Wild Side 3xDVD
http://www.dvdclassik.com/Critiques/macbeth-dvd.htm

Othello
(1952) - go for the UK R2
http://www.play.com/play247.asp?pa=srmr ... tle=125028

Mr. Arkadin
(1955) - wait for the Criterion 3xDVD complete edition
http://www.criterion.com/asp/release.asp?id=322

Touch of Evil (1958) - go for the Universal R1 or R2
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompar ... ofevil.htm

The Trial (1962) - go for the the french Studio Canal edition
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare8/trial.htm

Chimes at Midnight
(1965) - go for the french Studio Canal edition
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReview/chimes.htm
viewtopic.php?t=3087&start=0

The Immortal Story (1968) - go for the italian edition
http://www.wellesnet.com/IS_dvdreview.htm

F for Fake (1974) - go for the Criterion edition
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompar ... r_fake.htm

Don Quijote de Orson Welles (1992) - wait, just grab yourselves a seat and wait
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompar ... uixote.htm
Last edited by Lino on Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:42 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Caligula
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#15 Post by Caligula » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:27 pm

As regards F For Fake, you could also wait for the MoC edition to be released this year.

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tavernier
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#16 Post by tavernier » Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:07 pm

Annie Mall wrote: Don Quijote de Orson Welles (1992) - wait, just grab yourselves a seat and wait
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompar ... uixote.htm
This was recently shown at the Walter Reade in NYC as part of a Spanish Cinema series sidebar of films based on Cervantes' classic novel. The print was passable, similar to the screen grabs on the Beaver site.
The real revelation, however, was a 6-hour DON QUIXOTE with the great Fernando Rey, from the early 90s.

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#17 Post by yoshimori » Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:04 pm

Annie Mall wrote:Chimes at Midnight[/b] (1965) - go for the spanish edition or wait for a release of the recently restored print
Something against the what seems to me the far superior new french transfer? See THIS thread.

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Lino
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#18 Post by Lino » Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:06 pm

Thanks, yoshi. List is now updated.

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Lino
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#19 Post by Lino » Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:54 pm

From the Warner chat:
Warner still looking for better elements for The Magnificent Ambersons and will release
Journey into Fear with it. Be patient this might stretch out for a couple more years.

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#20 Post by viciousliar » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:23 pm

Annie Mall wrote:From the Warner chat:
Warner still looking for better elements for The Magnificent Ambersons and will release
Journey into Fear with it. Be patient this might stretch out for a couple more years.
I just don't understand - the very early laser disc edition of "Journey Into Fear" looks breathtaking - even better than the R2 release reviewed by the Beaver. Surely there's nothing left to be desired RE the film elements.

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#21 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:38 pm

The issue is with Ambersons, not Journey into Fear. That said, they should just release Journey into Fear separately instead of tying it to a film that may well never come out on DVD at the rate things are going.

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#22 Post by viciousliar » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:38 pm

The Fanciful Norwegian wrote:The issue is with Ambersons, not Journey into Fear. That said, they should just release Journey into Fear separately instead of tying it to a film that may well never come out on DVD at the rate things are going.
Agreed, but the official excuse from Warners is that they are "looking for better source elements" in the case of Fear, too.

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J Wilson
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#23 Post by J Wilson » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:20 pm

In the case of JOURNEY, Warner will hopefully include both the American and European release versions, which feature different footage and endings. The Munich Filmmuseum has done a preliminary reconstruction combining the two, which would be cool to see also, but probably unlikely for Warner to include.

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#24 Post by viciousliar » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:25 pm

J Wilson wrote:In the case of JOURNEY, Warner will hopefully include both the American and European release versions, which feature different footage and endings. The Munich Filmmuseum has done a preliminary reconstruction combining the two, which would be cool to see also, but probably unlikely for Warner to include.
That's most interesting - is the European version per chance longer, and is it slightly darker in mood, if you happen to know? Please share.

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justeleblanc
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#25 Post by justeleblanc » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:04 pm

The Fanciful Norwegian wrote:The issue is with Ambersons, not Journey into Fear. That said, they should just release Journey into Fear separately instead of tying it to a film that may well never come out on DVD at the rate things are going.
I'm perfectly happy waiting for it, as long as I know it will come out sometime. Kane was well worth the wait.

My guess is they are doing some sort of deleted scenes piece involving notes, scripts, storyboards, everything they can to fill in the gaps as best as possible.

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