Ingmar Bergman Vols. 1-4

[therewillbeblus]

Whoops, you're right, I was thinking of the Stimulantia segment “Daniel” - I knew I had to locate one of my blind spots from the 60s project elsewhere and misremembered which one

[ryannichols7]

I hope they manage to do another commentary or two - both Criterion and BFI disappointed me on adding new scholarly supplements for their recent Bergman releases. I love that they went out and got Kat Ellinger for Seventh Seal, because while Peter Cowie's commentary is still fantastic, it's 30+ years old at this point so it's great to hear new perspective. the Virgin Spring didn't do much for me but I'll be happy to hear this track...hoping we do see some others. was a shame Wild Strawberries at the least didn't get one last set, or a visual essay or anything

[MichaelB]

I hope they manage to do another commentary or two

I'd be very surprised. I suspect production budgets are similar across all four boxes, so if they've only budgeted for one commentary per box, that's what we're going to get.

[rapta]

None of these films are absent from the Criterion box. I may still pick this set up though if any of the transfers are significant improvements like Smiles of a Summer Night was

Did someone say The Magician was from a different master too, or am I imagining it? Slightly frustrating to have to consider double-dipping if these all turn out to have better masters than what Criterion used. Can't blame BFI for that though, they're doing an amazing job with these titles, and I own the first set since it had a few exclusives.

Also, just realised Persona didn't get a UHD, nor a separate Blu-ray edition. I had wrongly assumed that'd be a big hitter for BFI and their second Bergman UHD (and another chance to beat Criterion to it). I suppose that chance may now fall upon Cries and Whispers? I don't imagine they'd want to do Scenes from a Marriage or Fanny & Alexander considering their runtimes.

PS: I thought Fårödokument 79 would be in Volume 3, anyone know why it wasn't included? I suppose they may include it as a special feature...

[Calvin]

Also, just realised Persona didn't get a UHD, nor a separate Blu-ray edition. I had wrongly assumed that'd be a big hitter for BFI and their second Bergman UHD (and another chance to beat Criterion to it). I suppose that chance may now fall upon Cries and Whispers? I don't imagine they'd want to do Scenes from a Marriage or Fanny & Alexander considering their runtimes.

I believe the only Bergman films with 4K masters are The Seventh Seal, Autumn Sonata, and Face to Face. The latter two don't really seem like UHD candidates (and the BFI don't have the rights to Face to Face anyway) so I suspect The Seventh Seal was a once off unless new restorations are done.

[rapta]

Also, just realised Persona didn't get a UHD, nor a separate Blu-ray edition. I had wrongly assumed that'd be a big hitter for BFI and their second Bergman UHD (and another chance to beat Criterion to it). I suppose that chance may now fall upon Cries and Whispers? I don't imagine they'd want to do Scenes from a Marriage or Fanny & Alexander considering their runtimes.

I believe the only Bergman films with 4K masters are The Seventh Seal, Autumn Sonata, and Face to Face. The latter two don't really seem like UHD candidates (and the BFI don't have the rights to Face to Face anyway) so I suspect The Seventh Seal was a once off unless new restorations are done.

Ah okay, that makes entire sense then. Just surprised they didn't announce a UHD this time, but perhaps they have more for Q4 this year (obviously not a Bergman title though).

Still, slightly surprised they didn't do Persona separately at least, as they did with Wild Strawberries. Perhaps the latter didn't sell as well as they thought it might? Doesn't help there are apparently no on-disc extras on that edition (just a booklet).

[andyli]

I believe the only Bergman films with 4K masters are The Seventh Seal, Autumn Sonata, and Face to Face. The latter two don't really seem like UHD candidates (and the BFI don't have the rights to Face to Face anyway) so I suspect The Seventh Seal was a once off unless new restorations are done.

I remember when the Criterion Bergman set was released, only The Seventh Seal was allegedly from a 4K remaster. Are you sure that the other two titles you mentioned have received 4K treatment since then? (I wouldn't know about Face to Face anyway since it wasn't included in that set.)

[Calvin]

I believe the only Bergman films with 4K masters are The Seventh Seal, Autumn Sonata, and Face to Face. The latter two don't really seem like UHD candidates (and the BFI don't have the rights to Face to Face anyway) so I suspect The Seventh Seal was a once off unless new restorations are done.

I remember when the Criterion Bergman set was released, only The Seventh Seal was allegedly from a 4K remaster. Are you sure that the other two titles you mentioned have received 4K treatment since then? (I wouldn't know about Face to Face anyway since it wasn't included in that set.)

Face to Face has been restored by Cinematograph AB (who I believe own worldwide rights to the TV version, but only Swedish rights to the theatrical version).

The Swedish Film Institute says that Autumn Sonata is a 4K restoration and one of only 5 titles they have in that format - the others being The Seventh Seal, Mauritz Stiller's Vingarne, Bo Widerberg's Raven's End, and Lukas Moodysson's Together. The BFI also screened it from a 4K DCP as part of their Liv Ullmann season last month

[ryannichols7]

Also, just realised Persona didn't get a UHD, nor a separate Blu-ray edition. I had wrongly assumed that'd be a big hitter for BFI and their second Bergman UHD (and another chance to beat Criterion to it). I suppose that chance may now fall upon Cries and Whispers? I don't imagine they'd want to do Scenes from a Marriage or Fanny & Alexander considering their runtimes.

I believe the only Bergman films with 4K masters are The Seventh Seal, Autumn Sonata, and Face to Face. The latter two don't really seem like UHD candidates (and the BFI don't have the rights to Face to Face anyway) so I suspect The Seventh Seal was a once off unless new restorations are done.

Ah okay, that makes entire sense then. Just surprised they didn't announce a UHD this time, but perhaps they have more for Q4 this year (obviously not a Bergman title though).

Still, slightly surprised they didn't do Persona separately at least, as they did with Wild Strawberries. Perhaps the latter didn't sell as well as they thought it might? Doesn't help there are apparently no on-disc extras on that edition (just a booklet).

Wild Strawberries I think was a real missed opportunity. I can totally understand if they want there to be a standalone release (much like Maborosi and After Life got from the Kore-eda box - both of those had new commentaries too), but to not have any extras in either the boxset or standalone edition definitely makes it a pretty inessential release. I'm sure most people who would pick up a theoretical standalone would get the boxset, and if there's no features, I can't see it moving any copies. Criterion's editions of both Wild Strawberries and Persona have good academic context, but I was really in favor of The Seventh Seal getting a new commentary from someone from the "newer school" of scholars with Kat Ellinger coming in. even having her on Persona would be great - the film is ripe for analysis and discussion, and while I know Bergman has had plenty of such over the years, I think it's kinda wild his arguably...deepest film only has a little bit of meaningful discussion (Cowie's great piece on the Criterion). but I get it, limited budgets or whatever, just a shame maybe the company with bigger pockets didn't do so initially (but that's for another thread)

do appreciate the Heller-Nicholas/Nelson pairing on Virgin Spring though, that one is right up their alley. and yes, I realize this post is basically just an expansion of my post up thread. I will say that I do want it reflected that my disappointment is just overall the handling of Bergman's films in terms of context in the English speaking world, on both sides of the Atlantic. Criterion having some short interviews be all there is for the Faith Trilogy films is something I find just as disappointing, not to mention many of the later 60s MGM movies that got NO features at all, mind boggling stuff. wonder who will put out Shame, The Passion of Anna, and Hour of the Wolf in the UK? that'd be a killer Arrow Academy boxset, oh wait..

[yoloswegmaster]

The Films:

Cries and Whispers (1972)
Scenes from a Marriage (1973)
Autumn Sonata (1978)
Faro Document (1979)
From the Life of the Marionettes (1980)
Fanny and Alexander (1982)
Fanny and Alexander (TV Series), (1983)
After the Rehearsal (1984)

[yoloswegmaster]

Doesn't look like the TV version for Scenes from a Marriage will be on this, and it will be a six-disc set.

[tenia]

I'm curious how they'll fit all this in 6-discs. Even with pairing 2 movies per disc, Scenes from a Marriage and F&A's theatrical cut would each require their own disc since they're 2h50 and 3h20 long, and even if using David M to encode it, F&A's TV cut would be best split over 2 discs. That's 4 discs already, and there's still 8hrs of movies to fit.

[swo17]

How did Vol. 3 end up comparing to the titles in the Criterion box? If nothing else, are the encodes slight improvements, having been done by David M.?

[ryannichols7]

How did Vol. 3 end up comparing to the Criterion box? If nothing else, are the encodes slight improvements, having been done by David M.?

I was just about to open this thread and ask whether we have final specs for it yet. hoping for answers to either question!

[swo17]

Oh, I didn't realize it isn't even out yet (currently due 19 Sep)

[M_A]

Did someone say The Magician was from a different master too, or am I imagining it? Slightly frustrating to have to consider double-dipping if these all turn out to have better masters than what Criterion used. Can't blame BFI for that though, they're doing an amazing job with these titles, and I own the first set since it had a few exclusives.

I just watched The Magician then compared to screenshots of the Criterion and can confirm that the BFI Blu is a big improvement. It certainly did not look like this!

[dwk]

Saw the press release for Vol. 3 posted on the Rock Shock Pop forum and it notes

*Please note that THE RITE was only made available to the BFI in Standard Definition

The Criterion box has this in HD from a 2k scan of the negative, so this is odd.

[tenia]

This is odd and unfortunate as the 2k resto is gorgeous.

[j99]

Oh, I didn't realize it isn't even out yet (currently due 19 Sep)

Looks like it has been put back to 26 September according to Amazon.

Anyone know when Volume 4 is due?

[yoloswegmaster]

Standalone 2-disc edition of Fanny and Alexander coming out in February:



Since it's a 2-disc set, I doubt that the Making Of documentary is going to be included in this set.

[Finch]

Even the BFI can't do without the fecking 5 star splashes.

Tempting to get this at a sale price in a year for the FiM encode. Does this release still have both TV and theatrical edits?

[aswin]

Hello, can anyone confirm if the subtitles are different in the Criterion releases of the films Vs. the BFI releases in the Vol. 1-4 box sets? I'm used to Criterion subtitles in general and on the 5-6 Criterion Bergman films i've seen. Some subtitles by BFI in general are in Italics and smaller, some have a drop shadow behind them, different position on the screen, etc.. The criterion subtitles are just right and might sway me to keep the Criterion set of there's a difference. I'm not sure at what stage of production the subtitles are added, and by who.

I've ordered the Bergman Blu-Ray box set from Criterion, and volume 1 of the BFI sets for his missing earlier work... but i'm not sure whether to by the rest of the BFI sets and send the Criterion set back, or keep it.

The talk of better encodes is enticing... but 'The Magician' is the first Bergman i saw and one of, if not my Favourite film by him and keep reading about this new transfer... It would be nice to know if it is indeed a new transfer as others have stated... i had no problem with the Criterion stand-alone release though as i had nothing to compare it to! Many thanks.

[MichaelB]

Full specs confirmed for Volume 4:

INGMAR BERGMAN VOLUME 4

Limited Edition (4,000 copies only) 6-disc Blu-ray box set containing eight films, released on 30 January 2023

See the BFI’s 2022 trailer for FANNY AND ALEXANDER here.

For more than 50 years, Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) produced ground-breaking works of cinema that established him as one of the world’s most acclaimed, enduring and influential filmmakers. By the 1980s, Bergman was recognised as the doyen of directors but continued to produce trailblazing films throughout the latter period of his career.

Presented on six discs, this final collection in the BFI’s four-volume Blu-ray series, contains eight films spanning 1972-1984, including CRIES AND WHISPERS (1972) – Bergman’s examination of suffering and the female psyche, AUTUMN SONATA (1978), his much-heralded collaboration with Ingrid Bergman, and his epic, award-winning and deeply personal FANNY AND ALEXANDER (1982) presented in both its theatrical and 1984 television versions.

The films on Volume 4 are:

CRIES AND WHISPERS (1972) Directed by Ingmar Bergman. Screenplay by Ingmar Bergman
SCENES FROM A MARRIAGE (1974) Directed by Ingmar Bergman. Screenplay by Ingmar Bergman
AUTUMN SONATA (1978) Directed by Ingmar Bergman. Screenplay by Ingmar Bergman
FÅRÖ DOCUMENT 1979 (1979) Directed by Ingmar Bergman. Written by Ingmar Bergmann
FROM THE LIFE OF THE MARIONETTES (1980) Directed by Ingmar Bergman. Screenplay by Ingmar Bergman
FANNY AND ALEXANDER (1982) Directed by Ingmar Bergman. Screenplay by Ingmar Bergman
FANNY AND ALEXANDER (TV VERSION) (1984) Directed by Ingmar Bergman. Screenplay by Ingmar Bergman
AFTER THE REHEARSAL* (1984) Directed by Ingmar Bergman. Screenplay by Ingmar Bergman

Special features
· 100-page perfect bound book featuring new essays by Geoff Andrew, Catherine Wheatley, Leigh Singer, Andrew Graves, Philip Kemp and Ellen Cheshire

Product details
RRP: £59.99 / Cat. no. BFIB1464 / 18
Sweden / 1972-1984 / colour, black and white / 1,144 mins / Swedish, with optional English language subtitles / original aspect ratios / 5 x BD50, 1 x BD25: 1080p, 24fps, LPCM mono audio (48kHz/24-bit)
*Please note that AFTER THE REHEARSAL was only made available to the BFI in Standard Definition

[MichaelB]

Hello, can anyone confirm if the subtitles are different in the Criterion releases of the films Vs. the BFI releases in the Vol. 1-4 box sets? I'm used to Criterion subtitles in general and on the 5-6 Criterion Bergman films i've seen. Some subtitles by BFI in general are in Italics and smaller, some have a drop shadow behind them, different position on the screen, etc.. The criterion subtitles are just right and might sway me to keep the Criterion set of there's a difference. I'm not sure at what stage of production the subtitles are added, and by who.

Sorry, only just seen this. I suspect they'd be working from subtitles supplied by the rightsholder, tweaked for the BFI house style.

It's extremely unlikely that they'd be working directly from the same subtitle files that Criterion used, as they'd need to be licensed separately, and there's no reason for them to do so. Although Criterion may well have been working from the same source files themselves.

Italics are common UK subtitling practice, usually to convey things in voiceover, but they're sometimes used for emphasis (although the latter is more commonly encountered in a hard-of-hearing subtitling situation, where such emphasis may not be clear to the viewer).

As for the font, I've just had a look at samples from the Criterion and BFI editions, and the Criterion ones do indeed look bigger - although a screencap comparison reveals that the fonts are exactly the same height; it's just that the BFI one is narrower, so it looks smaller than it actually is.

[ryannichols7]

no on disc extras at all this time is tragic. the previous two sets had a commentary each, and I was hoping for a new track on Cries and Whispers or Autumn Sonata or any sort of visual essay analyzing the later career stuff. obviously its hard to do for the big long TV films but I'm just genuinely shocked how little scholarly material both Criterion and the BFI went for on their respective Bergman sets. Criterion with nothing new at all and BFI with the two new tracks (admittedly Kat's track for The Seventh Seal is very good, I haven't heard the new Virgin Spring one). written material was the name of the game this time it seems..

I've beat this horse three times on this page, but rest assured the first two volumes sit on my shelf currently and I'm sure the latter two will as well. there was just enough difference to buy them in addition to the Criterion set (newer transfers + differing essays + original artwork)