criterionforum.org

You could not pick up this set, but then this is your future. There is fair warning that this is a truly limited edition. I can't believe anyone with a remote interest in Dreyer would hesitate.

Well, there's always a chance Criterion could release their own Dreyer box set, with Vampyr and The Passion of Joan of Arc, and in any case even more supplements. I imagine there's a pretty good chance of that, and I'm not interested in quadruple dipping on these films.

At the rate they upgrade box-sets, I'm sure this Dreyer set will be reissued before 2020.

What A Disgrace wrote:Well, there's always a chance Criterion could release their own Dreyer box set, with Vampyr and The Passion of Joan of Arc, and in any case even more supplements. I imagine there's a pretty good chance of that, and I'm not interested in quadruple dipping on these films.

Surely it's far more likely that they'll simply upgrade their previous three film box set, a la the John Cassavetes set in 2013? If they do, it'll fall short of the BFI set in the extras department. I absolutely cannot see them tying up Vampyr and The Passion of Joan of Arc in a set when they were not previously.

Drucker wrote:You could not pick up this set, but then this is your future. There is fair warning that this is a truly limited edition. I can't believe anyone with a remote interest in Dreyer would hesitate.

SpoilerShow

Mizoguchi blu-ray on Ebay listed for sale at $240.

There is a difference, however: the Late Mizoguchi set was decidedly more lavish (thick card stock, separate amarays) and with a very chunky book (not booklet), and has 4 BD's (rather than 3 BD's and 1 DVD). That set was limited to 2000...do we know how many this one is limited to? I know the Rossellini set is 3000 because it's numbered...which might signify that the Dreyer set is slightly more (maybe 4000)?

PS: glad I picked up the Mizoguchi set just before it went OOP...paid £38, and got #1220! Gambling a little with these recent BFI sets, as they currently don't communicate when a release is about to become deleted/OOP.

Production budgets are steadily falling because margins are getting ever tighter, and we'll be seeing more and more of these limited editions - and they will indeed stay limited. Blu-rays are still very expensive to physically produce relative to the prices that people expect to pay, so it makes much more sense just to run a one-off batch, sell those discs as a limited edition and then fall back on producing much cheaper DVDs, for which there is still greater public demand.

And to all practical intents and purposes, the Mizoguchi, Rossellini and Dreyer sets are the same: splitting hairs about the number of discs and the thickness of the cardboard is meaningless.

EddieLarkin wrote: I absolutely cannot see them tying up Vampyr and The Passion of Joan of Arc in a set when they were not previously.

Why not? They've made boxes that have consisted of mostly already released films- the Hulots and the Shawn/Gregory box. Sure, those two didn't expand an already existing box (though why the Hulots weren't boxed together originally, I'm not sure) but grouping the Dreyers together doesn't seem like a huge jump.

Most box sets like that are restored in unison. The Tati's were all restored by the estate. The Demy films were restored and did a theatrical tour. The WCF films...all restored around the same time.

To date, they have upgraded a grand total of one box set. By a huge, beloved American director with name-recognition whose films are popular enough that casual shoppers at Barnes and Noble have heard of them. The odds that Carl Dreyer's films are coming right up, or that they'll upgrade their lavish Rosselini box-set is not impossible but it's highly unlikely and just doesn't fit the pattern of what they seem to be releasing these days. Honestly there is little to no precedent for the releases some of you guys are talking about.

Have you noticed the slow pace of Ozu blu-rays? Probably because if they just released a US counterpart of a UK disc, there's no need to upgrade...so they are awaiting 4k restorations. Passion of Joan should be coming but it hasn't even done a theatrical tour yet and there's no word that a restoration has been completed. And Vampyr took forever to come out in the first place and the DVD set is already lavish.

It would be insane once we get the Apu trilogy from Criterion for someone in the UK to say, "I'll wait in case MOC releases it" and it's just as crazy the other way around as far as I'm concerned!

rapta wrote:There is a difference, however: the Late Mizoguchi set was decidedly more lavish (thick card stock, separate amarays) and with a very chunky book (not booklet), and has 4 BD's (rather than 3 BD's and 1 DVD).

But offered less value. 2 of the BDs were previously available, and I imagine many of the 2000 customers who bought the box already had the individual titles. The book, as lovely as it is, is simply a collection of all the writing material found between the original four releases, something that many buyers also probably already had.

jindianajonz wrote:Why not? They've made boxes that have consisted of mostly already released films- the Hulots and the Shawn/Gregory box. Sure, those two didn't expand an already existing box (though why the Hulots weren't boxed together originally, I'm not sure) but grouping the Dreyers together doesn't seem like a huge jump.

The three films that are already in the set work together as a collection because they were all made far later than most of the rest of Dreyer's work. I imagine this is the reason Criterion originally boxed them together, and they'd probably want to retain that (unlike the BFI, clearly). Also, Passion of Joan has appeal far outside Dreyer fans and so to not give it an individual release would seem unlikely.

You also have to consider who owns what. It's unlikely to be a coincidence that all the films in the BFI box are Danish - and that the two which aren't (regardless of the fact that MoC distributes them) aren't.

It's comparatively easy to do a substantial survey of a filmmaker's work if they were helpful enough to stay with the same production company for much (ideally all) of their career. Ingmar Bergman, François Truffaut and Eric Rohmer are excellent examples. On the other hand, if they worked for multiple production companies and their films have ended up being divvied up amongst multiple rightsholders, things get much trickier. After all, rightsholders generally prefer to get their full share of a single-disc release, not a much smaller chunk of a box set - which is why box sets involving multiple rightsholders are comparatively rare.

(A good example: Arrow's Borowczyk box consists of the films that are either owned by his widow Ligia or by Argos Films, who were fully behind the aims of the project, recognised its importance and were happy to come to a mutually convenient arrangement. But there won't be a second box covering 1976-88 as there are too many rightsholders and it just gets too messy: we'd be far better off putting out individual releases like Dr Jekyll.)

EddieLarkin wrote:I believe (though could be mistaken) that Master of the House runs at 18fps on this Palladium master. Assuming that it will be presented by the BFI using their standard interpolation method for 18fps films rather than interlacing like the Criterion, I think this will be the first time we'll see 1080i and 1080p presentations of the same non-24fps silent film go head to head in the PQ department. Should be interesting (to the nitpickers!).

It's progressive, yes.

Nothing wrong with waiting, (though you risk that the BFI might sell out) but consider the stretch between the MOC Joan of Arc and the anticipated Criterion. I was ready to pull the trigger on the AE Doinel set, but now there are complaints about audio dropouts. Vice-versy, the Criterion Tati has the crap upscaled transfers for the alternate versions, while the BFI has them in HD. It's impossible to anticipate everything.

I'm more confused as to the disparity between the contents of the shout and BFI Herzog boxes. Has anybody put together some logical assemblage between missing films or better transfers, and individual releases, where you can build something of a complete set without buying both boxes?

Very little of the contents of either set are available individually. For the record, everything that appears in both fares far better PQ wise in the BFI set, sometimes drastically so.

I'm more confused as to the disparity between the contents of the shout and BFI Herzog boxes. Has anybody put together some logical assemblage between missing films or better transfers, and individual releases, where you can build something of a complete set without buying both boxes?

Honestly, at the time both sets dropped (last summer) I felt like most of the conversation was about the quality of the cardboard used for the packaging.

Caps-a-holic.com has some examples if you'd like to compare video quality. Just search for "herzog".

Speaking of packaging, it seems the BFI has heeded the complaints about the Herzog set since a picture has appeared on twitter of the Dreyer box set with each film housed in an individual keepcase.

Got a notification that mine shipped this morning.

Thritto!

Quattro (Audi A4)

Beaver.

(Or Cinque, if you prefer.)

I received this box today (amazon.uk were kind enough to give a 4£ refund because it was cheaper today than when I placed my preorder). The amount of extras is overwhelming - this must surely be one of BFI's most impressive releases in that department. I'm looking forward to watch the content.

The box itself isn't too luxury - it's a rather thin cardboard like the Herzog box.

I'm a bit puzzled by DVDBeaver's review of Master in the House. Are the Danish and English language prints different in editing and framing (besides the intertitles)? And is he suggesting that the Criterion version is a mix of the two?

They're definitely two separate versions - the Danish version has more comprehensive intertitles, for starters. I don't have the wherewithal to run both side by side (since they're on the same disc), but it wouldn't surprise me if there were editing differences given the differing running times.

martin wrote:And is he suggesting that the Criterion version is a mix of the two?

Sort of. The single version on the Criterion disc is the Danish version, but with newly created and designed English intertitles. This was the big problem some people had when the disc was released, as for instance, you now get a situation where the intertitles are English but the written inserts are Danish, and then electronically subtitled (i.e. a whole new version of the film that no one would have seen in 1925). The BFI is far more authentic: the Danish version retains Danish intertitles and Danish inserts, whilst the English version (not included at all on the Criterion) has English intertitles and English inserts. These English intertitles are based on the original English intertitles rather than the Danish intertitles, and consequently characters names are changed (Ida and Viktor to John and Mary), as was the case in 1925. If nothing else the English version will be an interesting curio, previously denied to us by Criterion.

OK, that makes sense. Thanks to both of you. I'm looking forward to have a closer look at all the films, versions, and supplements.

Just got my set this morning. All I can say is - Wow. Unless the BFI or Criterion put out a box set of the complete works of Tarkovsky, the Dreyer Collection must surely be the best Blu-Ray release of the year (OK, maybe it can share the honours with the BFI Rossellini box set).

I'm glad the BFI opted for separate slim-line cases (complete with original artwork) for each disk. The farty-foldy-breaky plastic packaging of the Herzog box set is a pain in the arse.

Anyway, the picture quality is phenomenal. As are all the extras.

The Doogster wrote:Just got my set this morning. All I can say is - Wow. Unless the BFI or Criterion put out a box set of the complete works of Tarkovsky,

I believe Artificial Eye is planning just that for Q4...