La Belle et la Bête (1946)

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by the BFI and the films on them.

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david hare
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Re: La Belle et la Bête (1946)

#26 Post by david hare » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:14 pm

I think the M6 disc is superb. Some may not like the visible curly corners for full aperture but I do. Grain is gorgeous, far superior to the older 2K and very nicely resolved. Black levels and dynamic range are not an issue. It's superb.

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Last edited by david hare on Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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McCrutchy
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Re: La Belle et la Bête (1946)

#27 Post by McCrutchy » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:24 pm

Ooh, good thing I checked in here first. I have the Criterion, so I hope BFI will re-author the disc or when the ship date looms I will cancel. I despise compression issues, especially in dark scenes.

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jsteffe
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Re: La Belle et la Bête (1946)

#28 Post by jsteffe » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:33 pm

Yeah, those screen caps look gorgeous. Since Janus Films released the restoration a couple years ago, I'm willing to bet that Criterion will upgrade their Blu-ray eventually as well. This is one of their oldest and most important titles.

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david hare
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Re: La Belle et la Bête (1946)

#29 Post by david hare » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:18 pm

I actually saw the 4k DCPin 2016 at the NZIFF. To translate, the workflow was done in 5k, from a nitrate O-neg and a complete fine grain nitrate positive for reference with downrez to 4k for the DCP. I thought the DCP played a little hard-looking with less contrast gradation than the disc. In fact I had problems with the projection, in particular the lamp and light quality, but in any case the disc looks so much better than even that.

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cdnchris
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Re: La Belle et la Bête (1946)

#30 Post by cdnchris » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:26 am

This is pretty brutal. I recall it being pointed out that Criterion's Pan's Labyrinth had issues with macroblocking that I didn't notice initially, though a later viewing, and a "pause" in the right place exposed it. But with that one it at least wasn't obvious while the film was playing. But it's really blatant here. It's a shame because the brighter scenes, or the brighter areas of the darker scenes, look fine. The gradients are smooth and it all looks natural. But, Jesus, the darker areas that are black (or as close to black as possible) or a dark gray are a mess. You see smooth transitions into the darker areas of the shadows and then when you get to the darkest grays you see this horrendous banding effect between a few tones of dark grays (each tone as flat as can be) that then finishes into this pixilated black mass that dances around. It's such a shame because the other areas of the presentation look incredible, and the restoration is gorgeous otherwise. But all of those moments going through the dark castle, they're just a mess.

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RobertB
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Re: La Belle et la Bête (1946)

#31 Post by RobertB » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:42 pm

For a few years I have held off getting the Criterion BD, as it looked way too soft judging from screen caps. But at least it will be better than my old DVD. And I can't expect more editions for some time. Is there any consensus which one is superior Belle image wise? BFI or Criterion? Beaver is now suggesting the BFI should be re-issued to get rid of the macro blocking, but that's not going to happen is it?

Apperson
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Re: La Belle et la Bête (1946)

#32 Post by Apperson » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:44 am

<deep sigh>

I guess there goes the chance for casual collectors to understand the problem and take it up with the BFI.

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tenia
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Re: La Belle et la Bête (1946)

#33 Post by tenia » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:55 am

As I wrote in the related topic, I guess that's what it takes for Svet to remain consistent with his Criterion reviews regarding blockiness problems.
RobertB wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:42 pm
Is there any consensus which one is superior Belle image wise? BFI or Criterion?
The new 4K restoration used by the BFI is much better than the Criterion one, so the basics are clearly superior. I'd argue that even despite the poor encode of the darker scene on the BFI disc, it should still be better than the Criterion disc, especially because it will be quite depending on your setup (and how well setup it is), but that's guessing that even with so intense macroblocking issues, most people can still overlook them because of various reasons.
RobertB wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:42 pm
Beaver is now suggesting the BFI should be re-issued to get rid of the macro blocking, but that's not going to happen is it?
They corrected An Autumn Afternoon's encode for a much lesser issue than this, so providing this is an internal encoding issue that can be fixed, they might fix this one since it's a much visible issue. The only issue I can see is if the encoding facility say they "can't do better than that", because then, it means having to do the fix outside of the original place, and I don't know if this is feasible, financially and contractually-wise.

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MichaelB
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Re: La Belle et la Bête (1946)

#34 Post by MichaelB » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:40 am

An update from the BFI:
As many of you know, our initial pressing of La Belle et la bête on Blu-ray unfortunately contained some visible compression artefacts in some of the darker areas of the image. For this reason we have re-encoded and re-authored the disc to make sure that the video quality represents the best that the format can achieve. We are pleased to say that we have now resolved this issue and will be offering a replacement disc programme. Details on how to get a replacement disc will follow shortly.

For those interested in the technical side: The existing version suffers from quantization artefacts in the dark areas resulting in the blocking problems that some people have seen. For people watching in brighter rooms, their irises will be closed down and they won't be able to see into the darker areas of the picture, so to some viewers it will look fine. But in darkened cinema-like conditions with irises opened all the way up in dim light, the errors will be visible. That's especially so on OLED displays since they can produce true zero black and therefore have to stretch the available shades over a wide array of light output levels.

The BFI appreciates everyone’s patience whilst we’ve looked into this.

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tenia
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Re: La Belle et la Bête (1946)

#35 Post by tenia » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:48 am

There are labels I probably could spend days explaining why properly encoding a 24fps movie in 1080p is important and they still wouldn't care (and even explain I'm just too picky), and there's the BFI who fixes stuff like overly visible compression and offers a replacement program for it.
It's always reassuring to see people who genuinely cares about things like this.

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perkizitore
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Re: La Belle et la Bête (1946)

#36 Post by perkizitore » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:27 pm

Is this new version available from retailers or do they still have the old stock?

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MichaelB
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Re: La Belle et la Bête (1946)

#37 Post by MichaelB » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:49 pm

The BFI replies:
The new discs will go into production soon, therefore no retailers have corrected stock yet. The BFI would strongly suggest buying a copy from your preferred retailer and then following the instructions (to be posted up here at a later date) in order to get a V2 disc. That’s probably the safest way to ensure you end up with the corrected disc.

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Feego
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Re: La Belle et la Bête (1946)

#38 Post by Feego » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:09 pm

It appears that there were similar problems with the BFI's Birth of a Nation. Here is a detail from caps-a-holic backing it up. I have this disc but have never watched it. Did BFI issue replacement discs for this as well?

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