Roberto Rossellini

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swo17
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: Roberto Rossellini

#76 Post by swo17 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:16 am

tag gallagher wrote:Jean-Luc Godard wrote: "India is the creation of the world."

The French version of Rossellini's India Matri Bhumi came first, with superior text but identical video as the later Italian version -- until the Italians "restored" it by chopping off the last two minutes plus various shots inside, and then disguising this and, when pressed, blaming it on Rossellini. A lie! It ought to be a scandal, but no one gives a damn, particularly Criterion which keeps streaming the aborted Italian version on MUBI. I have "restored" both versions completey, restoring the color as best I can, shot by shot, and providing separate subtitles for each version. Here is an mkv of the French version, with subtitles:

https://1fichier.com/?sbajt7ze81

And here is a vid I made about the movie: https://1fichier.com/?5iqiz0rznr
Oh wow, thanks for your efforts!

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hearthesilence
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
Location: NYC

Re: Roberto Rossellini

#77 Post by hearthesilence » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:44 am

tag gallagher wrote:Jean-Luc Godard wrote: "India is the creation of the world."

The French version of Rossellini's India Matri Bhumi came first, with superior text but identical video as the later Italian version -- until the Italians "restored" it by chopping off the last two minutes plus various shots inside, and then disguising this and, when pressed, blaming it on Rossellini. A lie! It ought to be a scandal, but no one gives a damn, particularly Criterion which keeps streaming the aborted Italian version on MUBI. I have "restored" both versions completey, restoring the color as best I can, shot by shot, and providing separate subtitles for each version. Here is an mkv of the French version, with subtitles:

https://1fichier.com/?sbajt7ze81

And here is a vid I made about the movie: https://1fichier.com/?5iqiz0rznr
DAMN. Thanks Tag!

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TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Stretford, Manchester

Re: Roberto Rossellini

#78 Post by TMDaines » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:13 am

Tag, did you have an MKV of your restoration with both French and Italian audio tracks? I believe on Cinematik is a DVD version of your work that has both tracks?

tag gallagher
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:41 am
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Re: Roberto Rossellini

#79 Post by tag gallagher » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:55 am

Yes, my posting at Cinematik has both the French and Italian audio, with separate subtitles for each.
I made the mkv of just the French version in order to have a small file (1gb) to circulate here, at kg, and, ideally, everywhere in the whole world.
Except for those who understand Italian (and prefer it to French), I think the Italian version is superfluous. As I said, both versions were identical visually (until the Italian restorers went snip crazy); the French voice-over is a more interesting narrator than the Italian; and the Italian text is a lazy translation of the French: where the French uses a specific vivid word, the Italian makes a ganeric banal translation. And, of course, Rossellini made the French version first (and French, in fact, was his first language as a child).

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Altair
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:56 pm
Location: England

Re: Roberto Rossellini

#80 Post by Altair » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:15 am

Again, I must just chime in to say thank you for making this available for all of us.

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TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Stretford, Manchester

Re: Roberto Rossellini

#81 Post by TMDaines » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:34 am

tag gallagher wrote:Yes, my posting at Cinematik has both the French and Italian audio, with separate subtitles for each.
I made the mkv of just the French version in order to have a small file (1gb) to circulate here, at kg, and, ideally, everywhere in the whole world.
Except for those who understand Italian (and prefer it to French), I think the Italian version is superfluous. As I said, both versions were identical visually (until the Italian restorers went snip crazy); the French voice-over is a more interesting narrator than the Italian; and the Italian text is a lazy translation of the French: where the French uses a specific vivid word, the Italian makes a ganeric banal translation. And, of course, Rossellini made the French version first (and French, in fact, was his first language as a child).
Thanks, Tag. Invaluable as always.

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: Roberto Rossellini

#82 Post by knives » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:01 pm

Joan at the Stake
Trust Rossellini to turn left when everyone else is turning right. I really have never seen a Joan of Arc film like this one (though from what I hear there is some overlap with the Herzog version) which also makes it unlike any other Rossellini film I have gazed upon. It's in colour and isn't striving for filmic realism giving off a theatrical edge like the Archer's Oh!... Rosalinda. It's not just the fantasma of colour either. Rossellini really wants this to be seen in a parabolic fashion so he names characters after emotions, vices, and virtues and dresses up characters into thematically appropriate animals. This is told as an opera, but that baroque technique feels relatively modern to the rest which has the flavour of medieval theater and I imagine my knowledge (however basic) of inquisition era pays helped me a lot in getting a great deal from the film.

This might make it sound like Rossellini has completely abandoned any sense of realism despite the films before and after it dealing with realism as an aesthetic model. I would argue on this point that realism even in this film is a primary concern and that this one's skewed version highlights and reconfigures all of the other films which more closely align with cinematic realism. Maybe the word realism is the problem here as the film doesn't align with any real world realism and honestly non of his films do. Rather truth seems to be the key to Rossellini. The reality, of course, isn't that the jurors were sheep, but the truth of the situation when pulled free of the lies of perceived reality has them as such (or rather the metaphor speaks to truth). That's perhaps why archetypes, especially Francis, haunt Rossellini's pictures. No human is purely this myth of the saint, not even the man himself who Rossellini portrayed with a wry sort of humour, but they can live through the archetype till the point where they are it on the micro level of truth. Little talked about Joan now seems like a keystone in understanding Rossellini's cinema. I suppose it is a testament to the power of the film's aesthetic that I haven't yet mentioned Bergman reprising her signature role of Joan.

To be fair on that the script puts her into a passive role most of the time observing the reality that theater exposes from the perceived one. When she is given a loosened reign to monologue and act though she does become entirely absorbing and powerful. Even more than Stromboli this film uses Bergman la diva as a signifier and symbol of all that is right in the world albeit arrogant and naive at times.

tag gallagher
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:41 am
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Re: Roberto Rossellini

#83 Post by tag gallagher » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:37 pm

http://tlweb.latrobe.edu.au/humanities/ ... gfr09a.htm

My piece on Joan of Arc -- not in the printed English book.

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