Marcel Marcel Carné

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HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Marcel Carné

#26 Post by HerrSchreck » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:36 pm

I've never read a translation of the article, but I'll never understand how there are "fascist" elements/characters (I think Ren's complaints were that there are 'fascist characters') in Quai de Brumes. Can anyone explain what in fluck's sake what he was even talking about?

Who's supposed to be fascist? Brasseur's wannabe gangster, his chick and his mugs? Michel Simon's lecherous father? Michelle Morgan or Gabin? The sad crew in Panama's shack? If ever there was an attack on a film which completely baffled me, it's the famous allegation that Brumes is a fascist film.

Utterly bizarre.

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Zazou dans le Metro
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Re: Marcel Carné

#27 Post by Zazou dans le Metro » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:58 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:I've never read a translation of the article, but I'll never understand how there are "fascist" elements/characters (I think Ren's complaints were that there are 'fascist characters') in Quai de Brumes. Can anyone explain what in fluck's sake what he was even talking about?
In Turk's book where the incident above is reported he notes that Prevert allegedly got Renoir to apologise and Renoir stated he meant to say that there were certain characters that deserved a fascist beating. Carne (and I suspect most of us) failed to see any real distinction. In the same volume there are instances of Renoir's distaste for Carne but there is no evidence of out and out homophobic slurs. Neither is it clear whether Renoir was referring to the notorious Nazi spokesman Le Vigan who plays the suicide artist.

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david hare
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Re: Marcel Carné

#28 Post by david hare » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:04 pm

There's also the issue of Michel Simon's character which is viewed by some - certainly not me - as a negative Jewish stereotype.

I guess personal reactions to Renoir's article are just that - personal. I read it as homophobic.

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Knappen
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Re: Marcel Carné

#29 Post by Knappen » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:47 am

Neither is it clear whether Renoir was referring to the notorious Nazi spokesman Le Vigan who plays the suicide artist.
Not very likely as Renoir had used Le Vigan hinself in Madame Bovary and Les Bas-Fonds.

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Zazou dans le Metro
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Re: Marcel Carné

#30 Post by Zazou dans le Metro » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:13 pm

Knappen wrote:
Neither is it clear whether Renoir was referring to the notorious Nazi spokesman Le Vigan who plays the suicide artist.
Not very likely as Renoir had used Le Vigan hinself in Madame Bovary and Les Bas-Fonds.
Which is fair comment except for the fact that those films were 2 years and 5 years earlier and assumes that Le Vigan's fascist tendencies were openly displayed at that time or as vehement. It also assumes a certain degree of consistency on Renoir's part. You need look no further than Jeanson's article 'The Two Renoirs' to see another side of that warm avuncular face that beams out from his appearances on various supplements. Although Jeanson himself was a notoriously caustic character who courted confrontation and controversy it is a healthy antidote to the committed filmmaker/ cuddly Teddy persona.
There is also Michel Simon's rancour towards Renoir who he blamed for his own indictment for collaboration due to Renoir's own actions.

jdcopp
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Re: Marcel Carné

#31 Post by jdcopp » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:44 pm

You need look no further than Jeanson's article 'The Two Renoirs'
One does not need to look further than Jeanson's article. Sorry, but I have already gone and looked further.

http://jdcopp.blogspot.com/2008/01/reno ... -late.html

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Zazou dans le Metro
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Re: Marcel Carné

#32 Post by Zazou dans le Metro » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:30 pm

jdcopp wrote:
You need look no further than Jeanson's article 'The Two Renoirs'
One does not need to look further than Jeanson's article. Sorry, but I have already gone and looked further.

http://jdcopp.blogspot.com/2008/01/reno ... -late.html
I would applaud your blog -scholarship more if it referred to the article cited. Said article was written BEFORE the war contemporaneously with the attack on Le Quai des Brumes which has spurred this thread's particular tangent.
In 'La Fleche de Paris 12 August 1938' Jeanson (who as I mentioned is far from being safe from reproach himself)
wrote -
We possess two Renoirs
A true Renoir.
And a false Renoir.

.......

The true Renoir is delighted by the success of his friends,the younger filmmakers,
The false Renoir can't tolerate competition,and he suffers as much from the triumphs of his colleagues as from the failure of his own productions.


.....Quai des Brumes he has proclaimed is a film of fascist propoganda because the foreigners who see it will think that a country which produces the kind of characters played by Gabin or Brasseur is a country ripe for dictatorship.
So there!
Its reasoning is worth its weight in rubles.

.....

He ends with..
I also hope that the false Renoir reads this article through the eyes of the true Renoir and that he finds here all the lost illusions of someone who was once his friend.

I of course have cherry picked the lines pertinent to the concerns of this thread which in brief was What the fuck was Renoir on when he saw fascist characters in QdB?

Jeanson was a tricksy mercurial figure and I have no doubt as your blog notes was not beyond scabrous character assassination. But the article above is worth reading in full to see another side of a working colleague's appraisal of Renoir that is a sad disillusionment rather than cant and mere spite.

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david hare
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Re: Marcel Carné

#33 Post by david hare » Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:38 pm

Le Vigan's roles are numerous through 30s cinema, but one of his most canny roles is as Gabin's foil in Duvivier's caustic La Bandera.

If we really wanted to start rolling off names of people who were "chummy" with the Nazi Occupiers we could begin with Arletty, Darrieux, .....

But that isn't where we're going with this thread.

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Zazou dans le Metro
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Re: Marcel Carné

#34 Post by Zazou dans le Metro » Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:02 pm

Well one might wonder why Carne as late as 1945 when Le Vigan's pro-Nazi activities were well documented tried to get him for Les Enfants?
Also that Duvivier offered himself as a character witness during his trial. To suggest as he did that Le Vigan was 'led astray' by Celine seems somewhat ingenuous but I don't know really enough about their relationship or the extent of Le Vigan's pro-Nazi proselytizing to totally dismiss the idea.

He does cut a tragic figure however- sentenced to 10 years hard labour and ending up in poverty and insane in South America.
Could have been a Herzog/Kinski vehicle.

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Knappen
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Re: Marcel Carné

#35 Post by Knappen » Mon May 11, 2009 11:38 am

Two weeks to go for the Visiteurs du soir DVD from M6Vidéo!

EDIT: I have heard rumours about a delay... And please note that there will be no subs on this.

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HerrSchreck
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Re: Marcel Carné

#36 Post by HerrSchreck » Mon May 11, 2009 3:38 pm

How many Vigil Candles are burning in your flat until the day arrives?

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tojoed
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Re: Marcel Carné

#37 Post by tojoed » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:46 am

Drole de Drame gets a UK DVD release in October.
I don't know anything about the company, Contemporary Films.

Jonathan S
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Re: Marcel Carné

#38 Post by Jonathan S » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:54 am

Maybe the same Contemporary Films I used to rent 16mm "foreign" films from in the 1970s?

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: Marcel Carné

#39 Post by knives » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:17 am

Maybe we should fix the title of this thread. Good news on Drole though.

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NABOB OF NOWHERE
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Re: Marcel Carné

#40 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:37 am

tojoed wrote:Drole de Drame gets a UK DVD release in October.
I don't know anything about the company, Contemporary Films.
Not trying to steal your thunder - but it is already available with english subs from Editions Montparnasse and may well be easier to pick up cheaper somewhere.

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