Orson Welles

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FerdinandGriffon
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:16 am

Re: Orson Welles

#51 Post by FerdinandGriffon » Wed May 12, 2010 2:27 am

ando wrote:And he goes on refusing to acknowledge himself as the source of evil despite the fact that he has to continue murdering in order to secure his seat on the throne.
ando wrote:Now, how does Welles deal with this (for it is the absolute crux of the play)?
ando wrote:Alcoholism is an escape mechanism (among other things). People in real life use it to avoid the deeper issues in their psyche
Is it just me or did you just completely justify Welle's creative decision? I really don't think any of this is contradictory.

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ando
Bringing Out El Duende
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Re: Orson Welles

#52 Post by ando » Wed May 12, 2010 3:25 am

How are avoidance and denial equivalent to dealing with a problem; i.e., making a creative decision?

Frankly, I don't think Welles really makes the (deeper) problem with Macbeth clear, much less does he address the issue seriously. In the end his Macbeth is probably remembered more as something of a highbrow horror flick than a human tragedy.

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FerdinandGriffon
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Re: Orson Welles

#53 Post by FerdinandGriffon » Wed May 12, 2010 3:46 am

Avoidance is one mode of denial. Seeking refuge in alcohol is one way of avoiding a problem. Therefore, drinking is one way to achieve denial, and making Macbeth drink is one way to represent his denial in performance.

Am I missing some crucial part of your argument? All apologies if I am.

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Roger Ryan
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Re: Orson Welles

#54 Post by Roger Ryan » Wed May 12, 2010 12:40 pm

karmajuice wrote:...Likewise, great emotional weight may be carried in only a gesture or a glance and it may only last very briefly. This brevity strengthens these moments in my eyes, because genuine emotion is only permitted a few seconds to rise to the surface, if that.
One of my favorite examples of this is in KANE after Susan Alexander remarks in an off-handed manner "Well, you know what mothers are like." In Mankiewicz's original screenplay, Kane responds to this line with a full paragraph of dialogue concerning how mothers affect their children. In the film, Welles simply mutters a hesitant "yes..." before changing the subject. There is no emotion in the way Mankiewicz envisioned this exchange, just Kane pontificating. Welles zeroes in on that moment. Kane is attempting to seduce Alexander and is making small talk with her regarding her ambitions. Suddenly, her comment regarding her mother distracts him. With great subtlety, Welles shows that Kane loses his train of thought for a brief moment; we realize that he must be recounting his experience with his own mother. He quickly recovers and continues the seduction. Ultimately, of course, Kane will insist (as her mother had) that Alexander pursue an operatic career even though she recognizes she has no talent for it.

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ando
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Re: Orson Welles

#55 Post by ando » Wed May 12, 2010 6:29 pm

FerdinandGriffon wrote:Avoidance is one mode of denial. Seeking refuge in alcohol is one way of avoiding a problem. Therefore, drinking is one way to achieve denial, and making Macbeth drink is one way to represent his denial in performance.

Am I missing some crucial part of your argument?
Macbeth can't avoid himself. The whole question of denial only came up as a way to explain Welles' choice to have Macbeth stumble through a large part of the later half of the play. To me, this is not a particularly effective way to illuminate Macbeth's inner dilemma. Macbeth vehemently desires to avoid himself but Shakespeare plants devices within the narrative so that Macbeth is forced to look at his actions. (Incidentally, Raphael Holinshed's version of Macbeth, from which Shakespeare's version largely derives, is absent of character motivations, so this aspect of the story is largely Shakespeare's invention.) Now if the particular inner workings of Macbeth's mind are not made absolutely clear to the audience then Macbeth remains some spooky hybrid, full of wonderful poetry, but ultimately unfathomable, like much of the reputation of Shakespeare (in the US, anyway). I really loathe this sort of attitude toward The Bard. It's a way to keep him a distant, top shelf, remote playwright, not mention its effect on films of Shakespeare.

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Sledge.
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Orson Welles

#56 Post by Sledge. » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:07 pm

Does anyone here have the 6 disc Legend Collection boxset? It has Chimes, Kane, Ambersons, Trial, Arkadin, and Macbeth. I'm thinking about picking it up, but I can't find too many reviews on it. It looks like a Korean release, but it's Region: 0. Anyone here have it? You never know about the quality of the transfer and if anything was cut from any of the movies. It is pretty expensive (at least for me), so I don't want to take a blind risk picking this up. Should I get buy the set or try and get them individually? I already have Citizen Kane and Mr Arkadin. SO I'm mainly doing it for the other four movies. What would you guys recommend?

JMULL222
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:58 pm

Re: Orson Welles

#57 Post by JMULL222 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:27 am

Don't take this as gospel because its all stoner memory, but I seem to recall a review that said that "Kane" looked damn good (if not pristine), "Ambersons" looked like a shitty VHS dub job, "Macbeth" looked bad, "Trial" looked alrite, "Chimes" looked surprisingly good, and "Arkadin" was the "Confidential Report" disc from the Criterion set.

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Roger Ryan
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Re: Orson Welles

#58 Post by Roger Ryan » Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:10 am

JMULL222 wrote:Don't take this as gospel because its all stoner memory, but I seem to recall a review that said that "Kane" looked damn good (if not pristine), "Ambersons" looked like a shitty VHS dub job, "Macbeth" looked bad, "Trial" looked alrite, "Chimes" looked surprisingly good, and "Arkadin" was the "Confidential Report" disc from the Criterion set.
This is pretty much what I heard as well. No idea which versions are included, meaning you could end up with a 4:3 cropped version of THE TRIAL without the pin-screen animated prologue and MACBETH could be the redubbed abridged version (twenty minutes shorter). I'm certain AMBERSONS is the mutilated version we've been stuck with since Summer of '42 ( :lol: ). As I'm sure you are aware, this box set is in no way an official release.

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cysiam
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Re: Orson Welles

#59 Post by cysiam » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:18 am

I've heard this before but I'm cautiously optimistic this time. The Other Side of the Wind might finally get released.

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Steven H
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Re: Orson Welles

#60 Post by Steven H » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:24 am

cysiam wrote:I've heard this before but I'm cautiously optimistic this time. The Other Side of the Wind might finally get released.
I'll believe it when Oja Kodar shows up at my front door with my own personal copy.

mteller
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:23 pm

Re: Orson Welles

#61 Post by mteller » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:54 am

Steven H wrote:
cysiam wrote:I've heard this before but I'm cautiously optimistic this time. The Other Side of the Wind might finally get released.
I'll believe it when Oja Kodar shows up at my front door with my own personal copy.
In this fantasy, what is she wearing?

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Steven H
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Re: Orson Welles

#62 Post by Steven H » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:27 pm

mteller wrote:
Steven H wrote:
cysiam wrote:I've heard this before but I'm cautiously optimistic this time. The Other Side of the Wind might finally get released.
I'll believe it when Oja Kodar shows up at my front door with my own personal copy.
In this fantasy, what is she wearing?
She's wearing Bogdanovich's favorite ascot and is wrapped in the lost Ambersons negatives, daintily tied into a bow on top of her head. Seeing how this drama has been playing out, I bet this Oja situation is even more likely to occur with The Other Side of the Wind taken out of the equation.

karmajuice
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Re: Orson Welles

#63 Post by karmajuice » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:14 am

A friend sent me this charming little essay via facebook the other day. Thought I'd spread the love.

The Many Noses of Orson Welles

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Roger Ryan
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Re: Orson Welles

#64 Post by Roger Ryan » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:13 am

karmajuice wrote:A friend sent me this charming little essay via facebook the other day. Thought I'd spread the love.

The Many Noses of Orson Welles
Yes, this was nice. It should be pointed out, however, that Welles did wear a false nose in his youthful scenes in KANE. In fact, not only was the nose false, but he had fishnetting pulled tightly around his face to give it a slimmer appearance and wore a corset or two to slim his body down. He later joked that people thought he was very attractive as a young man because of how he appeared in KANE, not realizing it was an illusion.

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Roger Ryan
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Re: Orson Welles

#65 Post by Roger Ryan » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:25 am

The previously "lost" Vienna episode of the AROUND THE WORLD WITH ORSON WELLES TV series (produced circa 1955) has been found in the Wisconsin Historical Society Archives. Some details can be found in this post.

Image Entertainment released a DVD of the other five extant episodes (two of which - PAYS BASQUE I & PAYS BASQUE II - are actually different edits of the same subject matter) back in 2000. It would be nice if there was a Blu-ray upgrade with the THIRD MAN RETURNS TO VIENNA episode included, but who knows? The episodes are examples of Welles' "essay" style of film-making which began with the unfinished IT'S ALL TRUE in 1942 and continued through the 70s with films like F FOR FAKE.

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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: Orson Welles

#66 Post by zedz » Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:00 pm

I hope Edition Filmmuseum are listening. Sounds like just the thing for their long-promised "Lost Orson Welles" collection.

razumovsky
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:52 pm

Re: Orson Welles

#67 Post by razumovsky » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:13 am

This story in today's Independent. The article is very light on detail about the supposed "restoration". I'll believe it when I see it. And Chimes at Midnight is hardly "sprawling"; it's a remarkably concise account of two plays compressed into two hours.

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zedz
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Re: Orson Welles

#68 Post by zedz » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:49 pm

If it's a historical film, you've got to call it a "sprawling epic," even if it runs 70 minutes and has three characters. It's a bad journalism law.

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MichaelB
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Re: Orson Welles

#69 Post by MichaelB » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:10 am

By way of comparison, the BBC adaptation of the source plays runs for 297 minutes. That's sprawling.

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hearthesilence
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Re: Orson Welles

#70 Post by hearthesilence » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:40 pm


beamish13
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Re: Orson Welles

#71 Post by beamish13 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:50 pm

Wow. How on earth did they get the clearance to screen CHIMES? The Pacific Film Archive in Berekely showed it last year, but I thought they were only able to do so because of their nonprofit status and the fact that the print was their own.

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hearthesilence
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Re: Orson Welles

#72 Post by hearthesilence » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:51 am

No idea, I didn't know it was that hard to screen. When I was living near Evanston around 2002, I remember Doc Films at U of Chicago screened a 35mm print...has much changed since then?

beamish13
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Re: Orson Welles

#73 Post by beamish13 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:25 pm

There continues to be squabbling between the families of the two producers who financed CHIMES. Apparently a new print was struck in 1992 and a run was even announced, but the people who commissioned it had to put the kibosh on the shows after legal action was threatened. I think this is the reason why it's never gotten an official DVD in the States, either.

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Kirkinson
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Re: Orson Welles

#74 Post by Kirkinson » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:28 pm

Doc Films also screened Chimes in 2009, which I think is when/where I saw it.

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J Wilson
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Re: Orson Welles

#75 Post by J Wilson » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:06 pm

beamish13 wrote:There continues to be squabbling between the families of the two producers who financed CHIMES. Apparently a new print was struck in 1992 and a run was even announced, but the people who commissioned it had to put the kibosh on the shows after legal action was threatened. I think this is the reason why it's never gotten an official DVD in the States, either.

As an aside to all this, Adriana Saltzman (widow of Harry Saltzman) emailed me several years ago when I ran Wellesnet, after I had written something about CHIMES, asking if I was interested in buying her interest in it, essentially. I had to tell her I was just some guy on the web, not a film investor (though if I'd had the money, I'd have given it some thought). It's amazing that the rights battle has dragged on so long, for a film that isn't going to make anyone rich, great as it is.

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