Jacques Rivette

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domino harvey
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1201 Post by domino harvey » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:55 pm

Watched La Religieuse and while I'm not familiar with the source text, I was disappointed that it manages to shoehorn in both of the most tired ways to depict a nunnery in fiction: either as an oppressive hellhole, or a den of lascivious lesbianism. I was also dismayed at how amateurishly choppy and poorly matched the editing was, made all the more glaring since, in contrast to most of Rivette's other work, this is fairly straight forward narrative filmmaking. The movie does show that the leftist critics were right to back Rivette over his other cronies, as I can't imagine a film like this coming from anyone else at Cahiers. I haven't read the Cahiers defenses, but I can't even imagine the hoops one would have to jump through to pretend this isn't the anti-clerical film to end all anti-clerical films!

Since La Religieuse is about to be available to a wider audience due to Studio Canal's English-friendly UK Blu-ray, allow me to advocate for a superior (by every metric) French film that was released just six years prior to Rivette's, one exploring novel notions of what it might mean to be a nun and one still languishing in obscurity, even though it arguably has superior star power in Jeanne Moreau and Alida Valli: Raymond Léopold Bruckberger's Le dialogue des Carmélites. Bruckberger's depiction of the turmoil of a cloister of nuns in the midst of the French Revolution gives us actual moral dilemmas that aren't completely knowable going in, and the film ends with one of the most successfully relayed ironies ever put to film. It puts a familiar and safe (!) movie like Rivette's to shame

EDIT: And Rivette bulleted it in the Conseil! Of course he did

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Petty Bourgeoisie
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1202 Post by Petty Bourgeoisie » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:26 am

Was it the new Studio Canal edition that you watched?

Since La Religiuse is Rivette's most straight forward film, I wonder what his thoughts were in retrospect. Did he consider it a misstep or a success?

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domino harvey
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1203 Post by domino harvey » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:29 am

My copy came from I believe the Japanese release-- I've had it for a while, but I put off watching til now. The film certainly gave Rivette free press outside of Cahiers considering it was banned-- it wouldn't surprise me if that publicity allowed him to secure funding for L'amour fou. I know critics more responsive to Rivette than me consider the film highly, but I don't know how he himself felt

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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1204 Post by bearcuborg » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:35 pm

Caught this in Italy with Anna Karina giving an introduction. It was my 2nd time seeing it...oddly enough, it gets laughs with the lesbian subtext/ending.

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domino harvey
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1205 Post by domino harvey » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:52 pm

bearcuborg wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:35 pm
subtext
Image

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tenia
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1206 Post by tenia » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:03 am

5 different films, one being La religieuse :
Image Image Image Image Image

Interestingly, Eclair did 4 of them, but Ritrovata did La religieuse. However, we can see how the captures almost look like they were taken from the same movie.

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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1207 Post by Jean-Luc Garbo » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:43 am

domino harvey wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:55 pm
Since La Religieuse is about to be available to a wider audience due to Studio Canal's English-friendly UK Blu-ray, allow me to advocate for a superior (by every metric) French film that was released just six years prior to Rivette's, one exploring novel notions of what it might mean to be a nun and one still languishing in obscurity, even though it arguably has superior star power in Jeanne Moreau and Alida Valli: Raymond Léopold Bruckberger's Le dialogue des Carmélites. Bruckberger's depiction of the turmoil of a cloister of nuns in the midst of the French Revolution gives us actual moral dilemmas that aren't completely knowable going in, and the film ends with one of the most successfully relayed ironies ever put to film. It puts a familiar and safe (!) movie like Rivette's to shame
And the dvd on Amazon France is coming out early October.

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domino harvey
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1208 Post by domino harvey » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:00 pm

Unfortunately that looks to be subtitle free

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jsteffe
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1209 Post by jsteffe » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:26 pm

tenia wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:03 am
Interestingly, Eclair did 4 of them, but Ritrovata did La religieuse. However, we can see how the captures almost look like they were taken from the same movie.
It looks as if they used the same LUT for all five films!

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Colpeper
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1210 Post by Colpeper » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:48 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:55 pm
Since La Religieuse is about to be available to a wider audience due to Studio Canal's English-friendly UK Blu-ray, allow me to advocate for a superior (by every metric) French film that was released just six years prior to Rivette's, one exploring novel notions of what it might mean to be a nun and one still languishing in obscurity, even though it arguably has superior star power in Jeanne Moreau and Alida Valli: Raymond Léopold Bruckberger's Le dialogue des Carmélites. Bruckberger's depiction of the turmoil of a cloister of nuns in the midst of the French Revolution gives us actual moral dilemmas that aren't completely knowable going in, and the film ends with one of the most successfully relayed ironies ever put to film. It puts a familiar and safe (!) movie like Rivette's to shame
I'll still pick up La Religieuse (the draw of Anna Karina being too much to resist), but thanks for the recommendation of Bruckberger's film, which oddly I don't recall being aware of, despite having been awed by the Poulenc opera based on the same play (whose 1947 genesis Bruckberger apparently brought about), in the form of the 1992 Opéra de Lyon recording (conductor Kent Nagano).

I haven't listened to the CD in 25 years, but it's mesmerising and unforgettable, so prompted by your tipping the film, I'd advocate the opera, for those who want sublime music alongside their respite from nun clichés. Incidentally, the Lyon recording is in the original French, but the full libretto and translation is in the CD booklet.

I'm particularly intrigued by your reference to the ending, as the end of the opera is undoubtedly what people remember most about it.

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Petty Bourgeoisie
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1211 Post by Petty Bourgeoisie » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:56 am

A link to the only review of the Canal release I've found so far.

https://www.thedigitalfix.com/film/cont ... 7/the-nun/

Screen caps look amazing, nothing like the trailer. The mystery deepens.

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tenia
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1212 Post by tenia » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:10 am

It's extremely likely the screen caps aren't from the BD release.

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Petty Bourgeoisie
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1213 Post by Petty Bourgeoisie » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:21 am

I noticed the aspect ratio looked off, but I assumed they were trying their best to show us what the blu ray looks like - because, well you know, thats what they are reviewing!

So what source are those screen caps from? That's what I'll spend my money on.

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tenia
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1214 Post by tenia » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:31 am

I suppose they are either from marketing material (which isn't always - often new) or online public pictures. They can be found here, with jarring differences in color timing that have nothing to do with what is on the BD, because these are seemingly a mixture of new captures and older stuff.

The only capture on The Digital Fix that seems to be from the BD is the header one.

I have access to the UK disc now and can make a bulk of random screencaps for the curious ones.

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JSC
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1215 Post by JSC » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:35 am

Just finished watching this release and on the whole I was impressed. The only
copy of this film I had for years was a VHS copy of a copy, so for the sake of
improved image quality I wasn't that put out by the color inconsistencies (which
do lean towards the teal (although when I saw an older print of this film projected,
the color scheme wasn't that dissimilar).

I guess my main problem is the subtitles, which are double-spaced and a bit too small
(not to mention very digital looking). There are similar subtitling issues with their new
release of Last Year at Marienband which for some reason is translated as
Last Year in Marienbad.

Also...(again, just to be overly nitpicky) why does the Studio Canal cover use the English
title The Nun, followed by de Diderot, followed by 'A Film by Jacques Rivette?'

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Adam Grikepelis
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1216 Post by Adam Grikepelis » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:34 am

JSC wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:35 am
There are similar subtitling issues with their new
release of Last Year at Marienband which for some reason is translated as
Last Year in Marienbad.
Because outside the US, that’s the english title?

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tenia
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1217 Post by tenia » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:08 am

I checked and indeed, the movie was always referred in the UK as Last Year IN Marienbad, while it was AT Marienbad in the US. It doesn't seem to be something new.

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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1218 Post by nolanoe » Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:07 am

Going back to La Religieuse - I saw a 35MM copy a few years ago, which looked mostly brown, with many browns. Brown tints on brown hues. Brown Brown.

The trailer looks like a similar copy was used and then just painted with lots of blues - take note of the shot where Karina is in front of an altar - her skin has the same orange complexion I remember.

I do prefer the look, but I fear this is not the originally intended one. Curious.

Has anybody got the japanese BD on hand?

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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1219 Post by All the Best People » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:12 am

Petty Bourgeoisie wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:26 am
Was it the new Studio Canal edition that you watched?

Since La Religiuse is Rivette's most straight forward film, I wonder what his thoughts were in retrospect. Did he consider it a misstep or a success?
From just after the release of L'Amour Fou (interview with Cahiers):
Labarthe was telling us that you used a certain phrase of Renoir's as a motto during the shooting: that the director should pretend he's asleep.
Yes, the three weeks I spent with Renoir filming the programmes for Cineastes de notre temps, right after shooting and finishing La Religieuse, made quite an impression on me. After a lie, all of a sudden, here was the truth. After a basically -- artificial cinema, here was the truth of the cinema.
From just after the production of Out 1:
How exactly does the method you used differ from the traditional conceptions of cinema that are still dominant? Several more or less established notions are shaken up in a pretty radical way: 'the director', 'the script', 'the actor' and so on. How?
Time was, in a so-called classical tradition of cinema, when the preparation of a film meant first of all finding a good story, developing it, scripting it and writing dialogue; with that done, you found actors who suited the characters and then you shot it. This is something I've done twice, with Paris nous appatient and La Religieuse, and I found the method totally unsatisfying, if only because it involves such boredom. What I have tried since - after many others, following the precedents of Rouch, Godard and so on - is to attempt to find, alone or in company (I always set out from the desire to make a film with particular actors), a generating principle which will then, as though on its own (I stress the 'as though'), develop in an autonomous manner and engender a filmic product from which, afterwards, a film destined eventually for screening to audiences can be cut, or rather 'produced'.
From just after the release of Celine and Julie Go Boating/Phantom Ladies Over Paris:
ADAIR: And the film, La Religieuse—what does that represent for you now?

RIVETTE: I haven’t been back to see it for years. It’s far from a success. It was the film where I had the greatest means at my disposal, but still not enough, which is the worst situation—so it was the hardest to make. One can get by with very little money if one’s making a contemporary film, but insofar as this was a costume film, with a script, it was nothing but problems. During the shooting, we were completely submerged in problems of decor, costumes we didn’t have . . . we had to pretend, to create an illusion. It was a very difficult shooting and moreover, I’d been turning it over in my mind for too long. Having said that, I should one day like to do a film of mise-en-sccne in costume. La Religieuse may appear to be an uncharacteristic work, but it isn’t one for me.

ROSENBAUM: There seems to be a Bressonian side to the film…

RIVETTE: Perhaps, but that wasn’t my idea at all. It was much more ambitious. Toutes proportions gardés, it was my idea to make a film in the spirit of Mizoguchi. But it’s not Mizoguchi. There was an attempt to make a film with extended takes or even one-shot sequences, with a flexible camera and rather stylized performances. So for me it was a deliberately theatrical film. But because we didn’t have more time and a more homogeneous cast, the theatrical side was seen by everyone as a fault. Whereas it was in fact deliberate to have such a theatrical style of acting, with a very frontal mise-en-scène in relation to the camera. But this would have required more time for rehearsals, to harmonize actors from very different professional backgrounds.
Tl;dr: the experience and result were pivotal in his altering his production methods and approach, at least for a decade.

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Petty Bourgeoisie
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1220 Post by Petty Bourgeoisie » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:42 pm

Much appreciated. Very thorough quotes that answer the question definitively!

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Petty Bourgeoisie
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1221 Post by Petty Bourgeoisie » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:59 pm

The Studio Canal La Religieuse has been out for a month and still no review at DVDbeaver. Strange as they have always been Rivette aware, even hosting the Order of the Exile website.

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soundchaser
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1222 Post by soundchaser » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:28 pm

Petty Bourgeoisie wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:59 pm
The Studio Canal La Religieuse has been out for a month and still no review at DVDbeaver. Strange as they have always been Rivette aware, even hosting the Order of the Exile website.
I watched it the other night if you’re looking for an idea on how the restoration came out. It is extraordinarily teal/yellow. The detail is stunning, but the color scheme is basically a disaster. The trailer is not misleading.

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Petty Bourgeoisie
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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1223 Post by Petty Bourgeoisie » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:45 pm

Thanks for the impressions. A precious opportunity wasted!

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Re: Jacques Rivette

#1224 Post by Coherent_Pause » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:10 pm

Excuse me if I could have found the answer to this by searching through this thread, but does anybody know what's happening with the restoration of L'Amour fou? I was under the impression that it's being restored but can't remember by whom.

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