Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

An ongoing project to survey the best films of individual decades, genres, and filmmakers.
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tryavna
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:38 pm
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#201 Post by tryavna » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:15 am

HerrSchreck wrote:I had drawn up a handwritten list of about 75 faves [...] Then I realized I lost the damned thing on my way in this past weekend
Schreck, it's a bad thing that you lost that list after such hard work on it, but can you imagine some "average joe" picking it up accidentally and being introduced to 1930s cinema thanks to you? At least, I hope your lost list met with a happier fate than a trash can....

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zedz
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#202 Post by zedz » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:46 pm

tryavna wrote:
HerrSchreck wrote:I had drawn up a handwritten list of about 75 faves [...] Then I realized I lost the damned thing on my way in this past weekend
Schreck, it's a bad thing that you lost that list after such hard work on it, but can you imagine some "average joe" picking it up accidentally and being introduced to 1930s cinema thanks to you? At least, I hope your lost list met with a happier fate than a trash can....
Let's all keep an eye out here.

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Mr Sausage
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#203 Post by Mr Sausage » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:18 pm

Herr Schrek wrote:Whale was my very first "favorite director", [...]I love the FRANKENSTEIN sequels, adore DRACS DAUGHTER, the Freund's MUMMY is a flat out masterpiece, and just about everything by Whale can stand alongside just about anything produced in the entire history of the cinema.
Jeez, here you sound almost exactly like me (just replace Dracula's Daughter with Son of Dracula--I'm not joking), both as a kid and now. Whale was my first favourite director--indeed the first director I was ever conscious of shaping a movie. Whale, Karloff, and Lugosi were childhood heroes, and I'm having a blast, spurred by the recent Karloff collection, rewatching all the Universals. I can think of few things more fun than watching these movies.

And here I thought I was the only one who would put House of Frankenstein in the top ten of his forties list.

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Brian Oblivious
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#204 Post by Brian Oblivious » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:44 pm

Michael Kerpan wrote: Stylistically, Naruse does not have the level of consistency and self-control that Ozu had -- and that Naruse himself himself would have soon after -- by his next film "Nasanunaka" (badly translated as "Not Blood Relations").
I'm not sure about consistency and sefl-control, but I personally got a lot more out of Flunky, Work Hard! than Not Blood Relations.

It probably helps that it's one of the few Naruse films I've seen more than once though.
Michael Kerpan wrote:The 40s might be a little easier -- as this produced a far smaller number of my favorite films. Even so...
Well, I'm rooting for you to take a stab at a 1940s list next time around. How are we going to get Traveling Actors in the top ten if you don't?

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Michael Kerpan
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#205 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:41 pm

Brian Oblivious wrote:I'm not sure about consistency and sefl-control, but I personally got a lot more out of Flunky, Work Hard! than Not Blood Relations.

It probably helps that it's one of the few Naruse films I've seen more than once though.
Well, the FWH is more entertaining, but I think NBR is better directed. ;~}

Brian Oblivious wrote:Well, I'm rooting for you to take a stab at a 1940s list next time around. How are we going to get Traveling Actors in the top ten if you don't?
As to Naruse, I would say that "Song Lantern" is my 40s favorite, followed by "Traveling Actors" and "Spring Awakens". Despite the conventional wisdom, Naruse made quite a few fine films in the 40s. Shimizu did pretty well too -- with "Ornamental Hairpin" and "Notes of an Itinerant Performer". Of course my favorite film of the decade is "Late spring" (and "Hen in the Wind" and "Record of a Tenement Gentleman" are also quite impressive.

MEK

scotty
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#206 Post by scotty » Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:09 pm

zedz:
1. The Roaring Twenties (Walsh, 1939) – Poor Raoul Walsh is severely underappreciated around these parts. Only two of his films were even nominated (for the other one, see below). For my money, this is one of the greatest Hollywood films ever made, and certainly the greatest gangster movie (yes, even better than Le Samourai).
zedz and schreck, I can't believe I left this off my list. Should have made it. Though I will say that Cagney's crackling screen presence is very strong in his earlier gangster outings, a real revelation for someone like me who had only known of his reputation before delving into his stuff this past year. The guy was absolutely kinetic. Walsh certainly did get great performances here and in White Heat.

Walsh indeed had quite a career, come to think of it. From Regeneration to Thief of Bagdad to the later stuff, he showed some range.

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zedz
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#207 Post by zedz » Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:49 pm

Well everyone's got plenty of opportunities to redress the Walsh imbalance for the 40s list: They Drive By Night, High Sierra, the aforementioned White Heat, and so on. And there are a lot of films I need to catch up on as well!

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Michael Kerpan
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#208 Post by Michael Kerpan » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:45 pm

"White Heat" is very good -- but not as good as "Roaring 20s" (of which I share scotty's opinion).

bufordsharkley
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#209 Post by bufordsharkley » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:52 pm

Don't blame me for The Roaring Twenties-- I notched it quite high, really.

...White Heat and High Sierra are certains for the 1940s. And who knows-- Pursued or even Dark Command might sneak in.

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HerrSchreck
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#210 Post by HerrSchreck » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:35 am

Another good Vitaphone early Warner with Cagney playing a rough & tumble dude, but a rough & tumble good guy is a film called TAXI, where he tries to fight a mob takeover of the NYC taxi co he works for. Not sure if this exists on disc, I have it taped off TCM.

Sausage, HOUSE OF FRANKENSTEIN is a perfect example of the utility of those low budget 2nd & 3rd string sequels of sequels... excellent cinematography, super tight performances, excellent art direction, supersmooth continuity. 70 perfect minutes of pure entertainment.

There's something very friendly & relaxing & comfortable about an old universal horror flick that I don't get from any other kind of film upon rewatching. It's like eating a bowl of your favorite cereal... they just make you Feel Good. Even those few sequels which I was never as familiar with, like THE RAVEN or INVISIBLE RAY, they still give off that great comfort zone that no other films give me quite as strong. Fuckin things are therapeutic.

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Mr Sausage
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#211 Post by Mr Sausage » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:32 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:Sausage, HOUSE OF FRANKENSTEIN is a perfect example of the utility of those low budget 2nd & 3rd string sequels of sequels... excellent cinematography, super tight performances, excellent art direction, supersmooth continuity. 70 perfect minutes of pure entertainment.
I've always been impressed with not only the economy but the energy. The opening of House of Frankenstein is a perfect example: the camera moves through a gothic storm (indeed following the carriage which will soon become a plot point); it dissolves, we enter into a dungeon-like prison following a guard to a cell, and our main character is introduced reaching his hand through the bars and choking that guard, bellowing "now will you give me my chalk?" It's certainly one of the best character introductions I've ever seen--but the whole, taking maybe a minute or less, sets the tone, the style, and the personality of its lead, with such force and economy, it's infectious. The scripts may indeed be pure nonsense, but the execution shows every ounce of invention and energy. I hate to throw around this term, especially because it sounds like I'm tossing down a gauntlet, but something about these films feel like pure cinema.
Herr Schreck wrote:There's something very friendly & relaxing & comfortable about an old universal horror flick that I don't get from any other kind of film upon rewatching. It's like eating a bowl of your favorite cereal... they just make you Feel Good. Even those few sequels which I was never as familiar with, like THE RAVEN or INVISIBLE RAY, they still give off that great comfort zone that no other films give me quite as strong. Fuckin things are therapeutic.
Perfectly said. It's a particular flavour that, good in itself, is made still better by the mingling of memories, nostalgia, and sentiment.

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life_boy
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#212 Post by life_boy » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:01 pm

Let me first qualify my list by stating that the cinema of the 1930's was an area that was mostly unexplored by me until the opportunity to participate in this list. I had a lot of catching up to do. As a result, the majority of the films on my list are movies I have only seen once. It really was a learning experience for me. Also, because of my limited access to 35mm screenings and retrospectives (as well as being only 23 years old), the diversity of my viewing experience still needs broadening. But, I did what I could and I'm fairly happy with what I ended up with.

Here's some orphans and darlings of all stripes....

3. Stella Dallas (King Vidor, 1937)
This was my biggest orphan. Unfairly passed off as typical Hollywood sentimentality, however, few Hollywood films from the era have hit me as squarely and unflinchingly in the emotional gut as this one. It is the story of a relationship that never should have happened and the daughter that gets stuck in the middle. Stella and Stephen are on completely different planets (they even articulate as much to each other as they stroll down the sidewalk) yet they somehow think that once they are together their differences will reconcile themselves. Of course, things are never as good as those naive days before the marriage. Vidor, a master of vignettes, fills each moment with fascinating (and subtle) mise-en-scene – the most amazing of which is the scene after the swanky dinner, when “Stephen's heartâ€
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Michael Kerpan
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#213 Post by Michael Kerpan » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:03 pm

I've now seen a number of old Chinese films (including some others starring RUAN Lingyu) -- and none of them so far have compared to "Goddess". ;~}

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GringoTex
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#214 Post by GringoTex » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:32 am

Not that it needs a lot of defending as it placed in the top 40, but I want to argue for "Las Hurdes" being far more important (and better) than L'Age d'Or. Bunuel was not about surrealism- he was about the irony of realism. Las Hurdes is Bunuel's keystone, and everything that Godard and Fassbinder did harkens back to it.

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GringoTex
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#215 Post by GringoTex » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:46 am

davidhare wrote: Certainly Bunuel's at his weakest (and this not very often) in the overtly political pictures -Crusoe, la Mort en ce Jardin and Cela s'Appelle. La Fievre Monte a el Pao has a similarly "political narrative but is more successful than the others because it's re-charged with the surreal.
I want you to expound on Crusoe and how you think it's overtly political and why you think it's weak. (I pretty much agree with you on the other three). I'm a huge fan of Crusoe. I agree that Crusoe is a singular film in a Hollywood context, as the critique is in an adventure format rather than a gangster or film noir format.

Actually, I think the traditional "Bunuel sequence" of the drowning man is probably the weakest in the film. Particularly, I want to link Bunuel with Hawks. I started with a comparison of Bunel's Mexican films with Hawks. Because I believe the two greatest atheist directors are Hawks and Bunuel.

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HerrSchreck
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#216 Post by HerrSchreck » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:24 pm

For those of you who, along with me, voted for Khalatozov's SALT FOR SVANETIA, what release do you have of this? It's encouraging (I didn't think anybody had seen this film before), as I'm guessing what the bulk of you all are seeing is one of Kino's most obscure releases on vhs, which pairs this film with Victor Turin's gorgeous TURKSIB. Cotton & water never looked so visually intriguing.

Ishmael
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#217 Post by Ishmael » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:41 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:For those of you who, along with me, voted for Khalatozov's SALT FOR SVANETIA, what release do you have of this?
I saw this on TCM years ago. I assume they still run it from time to time, but I don't know.

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life_boy
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#218 Post by life_boy » Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:52 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:For those of you who, along with me, voted for Khalatozov's SALT FOR SVANETIA, what release do you have of this?
My only experience with the film is via the Kino release (with Turksib). I purchased the VHS over the summer when Kino had their VHS clearance sale.

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toiletduck!
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#219 Post by toiletduck! » Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:09 pm

I've owned both the Kino Avant-Garde and Unseen Cinema sets for a while now, but I just finally got around to Man Ray's Le Retour a la Raison. Sue me.

Is there really no love for this? I've gone back and forth on Ray's film work (although I'd kill for a replica of one of his chess sets), but this one -- jesus, what a fever dream (with the George Antheil score in the Unseen Cinema box, of course). I think the most telling moment was when the word "DANGER" was more or less alone on screen for ten seconds and it took me seven of those seconds before I realized it actually said "DANCER".

Gonna go catch my breath.

-Toilet Dcuk

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HerrSchreck
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#220 Post by HerrSchreck » Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:43 am

My favorite Ray film between those two sets is the sublime ETOILE DE MER (THE STARFISH). Playfully self-conscious in Ray's usual sense, but so richly poetic and moody in a way that's actually quite close at many points to the French Impressionism of Kirsanoff Epstein LHerbier et al.

Despite the overlaps, and the bad scores, the two sets are sublime compliments to one another. I do still believe that the Shepard/Anthology set is probably the absolute finest use of the DVD medium, ever.

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pauling
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#221 Post by pauling » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:24 am

Have you seen Edwin S. Porter's "Dream of a Rarebit Fiend" from said set? If you haven't, check it out. It's a fever dream and one of the funniest shorts I've seen. I love that entire set but I always go back to Devil's Plaything surrealism disc.

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Scharphedin2
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#222 Post by Scharphedin2 » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:58 am

HerrSchreck wrote:I do still believe that the Shepard/Anthology set is probably the absolute finest use of the DVD medium, ever.
Schreck, I was not completely sure from your post -- this is the Unseen Cinema (7 disc set) from Image that you are referring to?

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tryavna
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#223 Post by tryavna » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:24 am

Scharphedin2 wrote:
HerrSchreck wrote:I do still believe that the Shepard/Anthology set is probably the absolute finest use of the DVD medium, ever.
Schreck, I was not completely sure from your post -- this is the Unseen Cinema (7 disc set) from Image that you are referring to?
I'm sure that's the one he means, and it is a truly outstanding boxset.

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Scharphedin2
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#224 Post by Scharphedin2 » Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:54 pm

Thanks tryavna. In that case I am doubly happy that I just received it last week amongst some other things I had ordered from DVDEmpire (excellent ordering experience btw).

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zedz
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#225 Post by zedz » Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:05 pm

I always seem to get here ahead of the crowds.

Anyways:

Only two films from my top 20 didn't make the final list, but they were the top two:

1. Motion Painting No. 1 (Fischinger, 1947) – One of the greatest of all abstract films, and one of the greatest visual accompaniments to music. My favorite Fischinger and one of the most sublime films I know.
2. Ritual in Transfigured Time (Deren, 1946) – My favourite dance film, and - hell, why not – my favourite trance film. The way in which Deren transforms demotic gesture into gorgeous choreography is always surprising and enchanting. One of those films that allows you to see the world around you in new ways.

My remaining top 20 films were:

3. There Was a Father (Ozu, 1942) – The best argument for the genius of this film is how it transcends the appalling limitations of the surviving materials, the current ‘restoration' and the indifferent DVD transfer.
4. Force of Evil (Polonsky, 1948) – As far as I'm concerned, one of the greatest American dramas, fully living up to its Shakespearean ambitions. I was surprised this didn't fare better – for a long time it didn't look like it would even pick up a second vote.
5. Late Spring (Ozu, 1949) – I was pretty confident that this film would rate the highest of the 40s Ozus, simply because of availability, but I was unprepared for its powerhouse performance in the voting.
6. Pursued (Walsh, 1947) – I've raved on about this amazing film elsewhere. Had a solid top ten ranking at the start of the vote, then vanished completely.
7. A Canterbury Tale (Powell / Pressburger, 1944) – P/P votes were intriguingly split, with a hearty handful attracting strong support from different quarters. Everybody seems to have a different personal pantheon of their films.
8. My Darling Clementine (Ford, 1946) – I had expected radical vote-splitting with Ford, but this film was the clear favourite from the outset. What's not to love? It's a perfect piece of filmmaking.
9. Pattes Blanches (Gremillon, 1949) – Three early, strong votes had this at number two (!) on my earliest count. Unfortunately, only one other voter had seen this mysterious, moody fable.
10. T-Men (Mann, 1947) – This had slipped down to the thirties until I watched it again. What a film! The apotheosis of documentary noir, wrenchingly suspenseful, and one of the best-photographed movies ever made, a characteristic obvious even in a mediocre PD transfer.
11. La Silence de la Mer (Melville, 1949) – I'm delighted that this scraped in at number 100. Like Pattes, I'm sure this would have performed better if people had actually had a chance to see it.
12. La Terra Trema (Visconti, 1948) – By a very long distance my favourite of the canonical neorealist films. Bicycle Thieves seemed to soak up all the votes in this area, so the entire movement performed less well than I would have expected. Sea-change, or blip?
13. Curse of the Cat People (Wise, 1944) – One of the oddest and most magical films ever made in Hollywood.
14. I Know Where I'm Going (Powell / Pressburger, 1945)
15. Meet Me in St Louis (Minnelli, 1944) – Musicals got alarmingly short shrift this time around. This gem was the highest ranked, but it didn't even make the top 50.
16. Begone Dull Care (McLaren, 1949)
17. Out of the Past (Tourneur, 1947)
18. His Girl Friday (Hawks, 1940)
19. Kind Hearts and Coronets (Hamer, 1949) – Great performances and a great script, but this film is also a masterclass in dry, witty editing.
20. Meshes of the Afternoon (Deren / Hamid, 1943)

And here are my orphans:

21. The Fallen Idol (Reed, 1948) – By far my favourite Reed of the 1940s. Great plot and performances, but also a glorious study in the use of cinematic space. Reed works his sets for all they're worth. The Third Man was always going to be one to beat, but I was interested to see how little support there was for Odd Man Out, which only picked up its first vote on the last day.

24. Somewhere in the Night (Mankiewicz, 1946) – Noir as Lynchian nightmare. This is a simply bizarre film that I can't get out of my head. The plot is convoluted and, on any slight examination, ridiculous, Mankiewicz's dialogue is purple and awkward in the mouths of most of his actors, but occasionally he lets loose a zinger (Slutty girl: “I get itâ€

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