Eclipse Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

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tag gallagher
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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#26 Post by tag gallagher » Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:32 pm

The reason why the French and Italian tracks of BLAISE PASCAL are differently subtitled is because they are differently spoken.

All of these movies were shot with scratch tracks, and then dubbed. The only one with direct sound is LOUIS XIV. In general, ALL Italian films are dubbed and direct sound is virtually never used. (Maybe things have changed in recent years…?)

In the case of PASCAL, most of the cast were Frenchies and were speaking French during the shooting, then dubbed themselves afterward. The Italian dubbing is thus superfluous, but various lines of dialog were written differently, and the reason a servant was discharged is different.

The dialog in SOCRATES is substantially different in every line, between the French and Italian dubbings. Here again, most of the cast was French, though it was shot in Spain.

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#27 Post by cdnchris » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:35 am

Thanks for explaining. I guess I was expecting the same subtitles to be used for both tracks and found it interesting they differed, even if it was really in subtle ways.

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#28 Post by jbeall » Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:22 am


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GringoTex
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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#29 Post by GringoTex » Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:59 am

Watched Age of Medici last night and felt like I was watching a brand new kind of cinema. These non-actors (I'm assuming most were?) who appear to be reading their lines from off-stage cue cards pop and crackle off the screen like live wires of knowledge within immutable backdrops of "art." It's an even more radical approach to acting than Bresson's. I have no idea how Rossellini did it.

I watched the first 15 minutes in both Italian and English, and then settled on English so that I wouldn't be distracted from the wholly hypnotic visuals. Gallagher's liner notes are amazing- Criterion should give him carte blanche for extras on any release he's interested in.

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#30 Post by ellipsis7 » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:56 am

Very interesting collection of RR texts laying out his theories of television and his writings on the individual films that make up the whole 'Historical Encyclopedia' in the Cahiers du Cinema book ed. Adriano Apra Roberto Rossellini/'La Television comme utopie'...

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#31 Post by GringoTex » Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:29 pm

ellipsis7 wrote:Very interesting collection of RR texts laying out his theories of television and his writings on the individual films that make up the whole 'Historical Encyclopedia' in the Cahiers du Cinema book ed. Adriano Apra Roberto Rossellini/'La Television comme utopie'...
I'm guessing there's no translation of this?

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#32 Post by ellipsis7 » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:44 pm

Unfortunately, no... Although Apra's excellent introductory essay - Rossellini's Historical Encyclopedia - did appear originally in English in the BFI book RR: Magician of the Real and a few other texts can be found in English there and in RR: My Method, but mainly this is the best source/resource...

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#33 Post by kaujot » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:16 pm

DVDTalk remains unimpressed. (Same guy who reviewed The Taking of Power...)

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#34 Post by GringoTex » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:49 pm

kaujot wrote:DVDTalk remains unimpressed. (Same guy who reviewed The Taking of Power...)
Yet, even in the finest restaurants, the arrangement of the food on the plate can't make up for a flavorless meal, and ultimately, Rossellini's History Films: Renaissance and Enlightenment - Eclipse Series 14 had me looking around for a little added seasoning.
Is this a piss take?

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#35 Post by planetjake » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:55 pm

The Age of the Medici came today without a booklet. :cry:

Anyone else experience this problem? Is there anyone I can e-mail to get a replacement?

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#36 Post by domino harvey » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:20 pm

GringoTex wrote:
Yet, even in the finest restaurants, the arrangement of the food on the plate can't make up for a flavorless meal, and ultimately, Rossellini's History Films: Renaissance and Enlightenment - Eclipse Series 14 had me looking around for a little added seasoning.
Is this a piss take?
He appears to be writing for a high school newspaper. Run don't walk to Running Scared!

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#37 Post by fiddlesticks » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:38 pm

planetjake wrote:The Age of the Medici came today without a booklet. :cry:

Anyone else experience this problem? Is there anyone I can e-mail to get a replacement?
criterion.com wrote:To report a technical problem with your DVD or Blu-ray disc; for television, public performance, and nontheatrical sales;
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for praise and/or criticism of our releases or the state of the film world in general;
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or for any and all Criterion-related anecdotes or curiosities, please e-mail Jon Mulvaney at mulvaney@criterion.com (he lives for this stuff!).

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#38 Post by Jean-Luc Garbo » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:45 pm

fiddlesticks wrote:
criterion.com wrote:To report a technical problem with your DVD or Blu-ray disc; for television, public performance, and nontheatrical sales;
for queries, threats, or bribes related to our future release schedule;
for praise and/or criticism of our releases or the state of the film world in general;
to report that a DVD booklet has been mauled by a dog or baby;
for clarification of the information on our FAQ page;
to whinge about region encoding;
or for any and all Criterion-related anecdotes or curiosities, please e-mail Jon Mulvaney at mulvaney@criterion.com (he lives for this stuff!).
Yes, the website really says all that. :lol:

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#39 Post by GringoTex » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:38 am

Cartesius

I'm loving these brilliant "anti-cinema" cheapo made-for-TV history textbooks. Similarly to the Age of the Medici (which Rossellini shot in English for PBS, only to have PBS refuse to show it), he shot this one in French for French TV, who then refused to show it.

I'm hardly ever distracted by subtitles, but this film's almost continuous stream-of-monologueness really forced me to choose between the image and the text, which is a shame because Rossellini is practicing a cinematic minimalism here that is so often wrongly attributed to Bresson. To miss the most subtle of movements can be to miss the entire point of the scene. I wish it were dubbed into English.

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#40 Post by jbeall » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:14 pm

GringoTex wrote:Cartesius

I'm loving these brilliant "anti-cinema" cheapo made-for-TV history textbooks. Similarly to the Age of the Medici (which Rossellini shot in English for PBS, only to have PBS refuse to show it), he shot this one in French for French TV, who then refused to show it.

I'm hardly ever distracted by subtitles, but this film's almost continuous stream-of-monologueness really forced me to choose between the image and the text, which is a shame because Rossellini is practicing a cinematic minimalism here that is so often wrongly attributed to Bresson. To miss the most subtle of movements can be to miss the entire point of the scene. I wish it were dubbed into English.
I suppose that's why Louis XIV stood out enough to get the full criterion treatment. So many scenes have minimal dialogue (like the feast near the end). I haven't watched the Eclipse set yet, but I wonder if this is a recurring problem?

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#41 Post by GringoTex » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:31 pm

jbeall wrote:I suppose that's why Louis XIV stood out enough to get the full criterion treatment. So many scenes have minimal dialogue (like the feast near the end). I haven't watched the Eclipse set yet, but I wonder if this is a recurring problem?
Age of Medici offers a dub in English and a dub in Italian. I highly recommend the dub in English to avoid this.

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#42 Post by Queiroz » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:31 pm

The untold pleasure of experiencing a kind of cinema you never had before. These are exemplary and passionate films that are going to be absorbed and reflected upon over and over again. My favourite Criterion release since 'Pierrot le fou'.

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#43 Post by GringoTex » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:18 pm

Blaise Pascal

This is Rossellini's "horror" film. Except the creeping camera is replaced with a creeping zoom. I forget who it was that said a dolly opens up space while a zoom collapses it, but it's in brilliant effect here. God and Satan are the monsters and they're lurking everywhere and sometimes it's hard to tell who the characters are more afraid of. There are many obvious parallels to Dreyer's Day of Wrath, but I think I prefer this film. These weren't provincial nutties as in Day of Wrath, they were the most enlightened men of their generation and to watch them condemn a witch to death against their own faculties is very horrific.

I'm very sad to be done with all the Criterion Rossellini history films. I hope they come out with another batch.

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#44 Post by planetjake » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:19 pm

As great as I've found these films, I find myself greedily wanting more, MORE, MOOOORE!!!

40 some hours of this stuff? Any hope at ALL of a second set?

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#45 Post by ellipsis7 » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:14 am

There are quite a few tempting clips of SOCRATES in the visual essay accompanying LOUIS XIV, which may suggest?...

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#46 Post by Murasaki53 » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:04 pm

As it happens, from next year I'll be teaching a bit of the Philosophy of religion.

Would this set be useful in the classroom?

For example, does Descartes discuss the mind/body problem at any point (and his view that the soul interacted with the body via the pineal gland)? And does his version of the Ontological Argument (as originally formulated by Anselm) receive a mention?

Similarly, does Pascal venture his famous wager?

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#47 Post by Greg Shantz » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:52 am

Murasaki53 wrote:does Pascal venture his famous wager?
No.

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#48 Post by CSM126 » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:47 am

Greg Shantz wrote:
Murasaki53 wrote:does Pascal venture his famous wager?
No.
Yes, actually, though very nonchalantly (much like Descartes offering "I think therefore I am" in Cartesius), since Rossellini was of the opinion that even great thinkers would not realize the greatness of their own ideas at the time they had them and, thus, would not make a huge deal out of them or emphasize them until later on when they reflected.

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Re: Series 14: Rossellini's History Films

#49 Post by jbeall » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:31 pm

I suppose you can always show My Night at Maud's.

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Re: Criterion on Hulu

#50 Post by jwd5275 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:00 pm

Has anyone else watched Rossellini's Socrates on Hulu and noticed that the sound in the second hour is woefully out of synch...?
I tried it both through my Roku box and on a PC, same result.

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