Eclipse Series 1: Early Bergman

Discuss releases in the Janus Contemporaries, Eclipse, and Essential Art House lines and the films on them.
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blindside8zao
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#76 Post by blindside8zao » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:07 pm

I watched Torment last night and it was very entertaining. It's very over the top in many of its stylizations just the way a movie about the teenage years should be. The stylization would also make sense if one considers the film a nazi allegory. My favorite part of the film was definetly the German Expressionist type view of the staircase we get repeatedly, with the shadow scene around the middle really taking this to its extreme.

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zedz
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#77 Post by zedz » Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:54 pm

blindside8zao wrote:I watched Torment last night and it was very entertaining. It's very over the top in many of its stylizations just the way a movie about the teenage years should be. The stylization would also make sense if one considers the film a nazi allegory. My favorite part of the film was definetly the German Expressionist type view of the staircase we get repeatedly, with the shadow scene around the middle really taking this to its extreme.
I watched it over the weekend, and it reinforced my previous impression that Bergman's script is the film's weakest point. The characters are scarcely stick figures - clumsy mouthpieces for Bergman's callow pensées, acting in an extremely illogical manner simply for the convenience of the conception (why doesn't Jan-Erik actually tell anybody what he knows, instead of just having a single, inarticulate outburst? why does Bertha's fate have to be so glibly convenient that it makes your teeth ache?)

Sjoberg was a terrific director, and it's a shame that his work is represented on DVD only by this film. The best moments of the film are the unscripted ones - the atmosphere he creates around the school (as blindside notes), the unfussy camera movements and their counterpoint with the movements of people within the frame. Here's hoping we don't have to wait too long for the magnificent Miss Julie.

And here's hoping some company somewhere does the right thing by the amazing-sounding Karin Mansdotter and Only a Mother. I've wanted to see those films ever since I read about them in Cinema: A Critical Dictionary years ago. Karin sounds visually stunning, and Eva Dahlbeck in the latter is described as giving one of the greatest screen performances ever. Given the quality of Bjork and Palme's work in Miss Julie, that's something I just have to see. Here's an old NYT review of the two films:
Janet Maslin, NYT 3/10/81 wrote:The New York Film Festival's double bill of films by Alf Sjoberg makes a fine retrospective program, illuminating the talents of a Swedish director whose simple, heartfelt, visually breathtaking style at times has a resonance like John Ford's. ''Only a Mother'' (1948) and ''Karin Mandsdotter'' (1954) present the late Mr. Sjoberg as a largely overlooked figure whose films have their moments of astonishing beauty.

''Only A Mother'' features Eva Dahlbeck, an actress so radiant that she often gives the false impression of being a blonde; that's how much she seems to glow. Miss Dahlbeck plays the heroine in a saga based on a novel by Ivar Lo-Johansson, who co-wrote the screenplay with Mr. Sjoberg. Miss Dahlbeck's Rya-Rya is first seen bathing unclothed in the farm country where she works, in a gesture that will establish her as both an unwitting sensualist in the audience's eyes and a woman of questionable morals in the eyes of her fellow peasants. This leads the way to a winding, very heavily plotted story of misplaced passions and tragic decline.

Rya-Rya truly loves Nils, who is played by a young and rail-thin Max von Sydow. But Nils is offended by the bathing, which he takes to be lascivious behavior, even though Miss Dahlbeck enacts it with an innocence few modern actresses could match. So Rya-Rya is forced into the arms of the wrong man, in a turbulent nighttime sequence Mr. Sjoberg presents with whirling camera movements over a shadowy landscape. Though Nils is lost to the heroine after this, he reappears as a passionate figure in the film, at one point hoisting her onto his wagon and carrying her across the countryside at a full gallop. Mr. Sjoberg makes particularly good use of motion; the scenes with Nils are as breathless as those between Rya-Rya and her husband are still.

In a story devoted in equal parts to romance and to detailing the hardships of a peasant life, Miss Dahlbeck projects such heroism and substance that she overpowers the movie's aspect of melodrama. She shines so purely and suffers with such dignity that ''Only A Mother'' can build up to the sort of weepy, old-fashioned ending that modern films no longer dare attempt.

And ''Karin Mandsdotter,'' which was photographed in black and white by Sven Nykvist, is even more visually stunning. If ''Only a Mother'' is the more solid and conventional of these two films, ''Karin Mansdotter'' is the more experimental. A narrative about the title character, a mistress of King Erik IV who became his Queen and shared his downfall, is presented in swift synopsis, then in excerpts from Strindberg's play ''Erik IV,'' and finally in a moody epilogue.

Ulla Jacobsson's performance in the title role is not on a par with Miss Dahlbeck's, but the interpretations of the characters are similar enough to make the nature of Mr. Sjoberg's directorial approach to his actresses very evident. Like Rya-Rya, Karin is a fresh, naive, essentially good beauty whose downfall measures the weakness of those around her. "

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blindside8zao
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#78 Post by blindside8zao » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:44 pm

I think I'll keep posting impressions of these as I view just to have some discussion of the actual films up on this post, though most of my thoughts about the film were well wrapped up in the essay included in the DVD.

The character of Jack is by far the most impressive part of the movie. He's very nicely fleshed out and performed, very charming. When he leads the young people at the ball into wildness and starts playing the drum, he really reminds me of a meddling Satyr. He's so playful in such diabolical ways. Despite all the joy he creates at the beginning there's still something sinister about him.

The image of the newspaper over his face combined with his location outside the theater at the end was a very nice touch (this along with the mannequin heads) but both symbols were very forced in the dialogue. Bergman provides us with numerous references to both to make sure we've caught them all. This ruins any subtlety and risks the overall effect.

Overall still entertaining, but without Jack I'd not really have enjoyed this movie.

Anonymous

#79 Post by Anonymous » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:09 am

Good news. Brink of Life plus two other rarities from his oeuvre (It Rains on Our Love and Ship to India) are coming out in May in Sweden, with English subtitles. Source: ingmarbergman.se
Last edited by Anonymous on Tue May 08, 2007 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Matt
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#80 Post by Matt » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:34 pm

Dave Kehr runs down the Eclipse Bergman set.

[If prompted for a login, use BugMeNot.]

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tavernier
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#81 Post by tavernier » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:24 pm

So we read (yet again) that Dave Kehr's not a big Bergman fan...yawn.

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domino harvey
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#82 Post by domino harvey » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:56 pm

Bergman's Out? Dammit, I knew I shouldn't have canceled my subscription to Teen Film Comment.

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Highway 61
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#83 Post by Highway 61 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:04 am

I agree that Criterion could stand to take more chances, but the nonsense that Bergman isn't "cinematically engaged" makes me vomit.

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colinr0380
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#84 Post by colinr0380 » Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:38 am

davidhare wrote:Yes, just read this and find myself - again - agreeing with his pointed negatives about Criterion as the "Tiffanys" of the DVD world.
I don't get it. What is the connection being made between Criterion and the pop singer? :wink:

The article while making some digs at the choice of the Bergmans seems to me to illustrate well the reason for the choice of the Eclipse sets announced so far. It seems that there are different kinds of obscurity. There is the 'legitimate' obscurity - titles that were never released at all, or only in a particular territory, which is what I think many of us were expecting Eclipse to only focus on. Then there are the titles that are well known but just aren't available (in region 1), such as the Ozu. Then, and this is where I think the Bergman set fits in, there are titles that aren't celebrated but did get a few showings and are relatively well known to fans. These films, whether it is because they are superceded by later more famous works sort of fall between two stools - they aren't obscure enough to have fans excited and perhaps they aren't popular or classic enough to warrant a full edition.

I agree with the article suggesting the films are: "already seems out of date, a slightly musty holdover from days of repertory programming long gone by", but that attitude is often the first step into obscurity for such films. From remembering they played a long time ago it is a small leap to forgetting they played at all.

At the same time I feel it must have been a natural choice to go for a 'big name' director first and test the waters - the Criterion Collection itself did the same. Hopefully we'll end up with a good mix of smaller films from people with large filmographies, films that stand up on their own without needing much context (now that Criterion might find it difficult to justify releasing a 'bare bones' disc without extras at their normal retail price!), and completely unknown or unavailable films.

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My Man Godfrey
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#85 Post by My Man Godfrey » Thu May 31, 2007 8:53 pm

Ha -- after reading the comments (and reviews), I feel a little dumb; I actually liked Crisis and To Joy.

I'm not sure that it's the best idea to let Bergman have the last word about whether one of his films is any good. I remember an interview in which Hal Hartley dismissed Surviving Desire -- easily the best thing he's ever done (and probably his only genuinely good movie) -- as his worst film and a personal embarrassment.

(Also: saying that Thirst and Port of Call aren't as essential as Scenes From a Marriage or Wild Strawberries seems a bit like saying, "Meh -- it's no Bicycle Thieves." I'm all for high standards, but . . .)

Bah -- I hate it when authors and artists make fun of me for being moved by their work. Basically, Bergman just said: if you liked Crisis, you're the kind of dumbass who'd probably be delighted by a film version of the phone book. And if you you were touched by To Joy, you're a sentimental loser who doesn't know enough about movies to know when an incompetent director is shamelessly exploiting familiar music to elicit an emotional reaction that his drama hasn't earned. (It reminds me of that scene in Five Easy Pieces where Jack Nicholson's character plays that pretty piano piece for his ex-girlfriend, and then ridicules her for praising it. Fuck off, Jack Nicholson!)

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domino harvey
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#86 Post by domino harvey » Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:00 am

the Bergman book where he writes a few pages about every movie he'd made is pretty funny at times, the guy is practically down on like everything he's touched.

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Tommaso
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#87 Post by Tommaso » Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:53 am

My Man Godfrey wrote: Basically, Bergman just said: if you liked Crisis, you're the kind of dumbass who'd probably be delighted by a film version of the phone book.
I don't know why that reminds me of Greenaway's "The Falls".... and I love that film :wink:

Seriously, I'm not sure whether Bergman isn't also poking a bit of fun both at the audience and at himself (perhaps primarily at himself) with statements like this. I agree that he's over-critical, but his dismissal of these early films, or later works like "All these women", basically serves to put things in perspective for both himself and newcomers to his work. And these early films are indeed pretty minor compared to most of his later work. Which doesn't mean they are not well worth watching. But I can't see any reason why somebody new to Bergman should start with that Eckipse set, even if you get five films for a ridiculously cheap price. All of them together are no match for "Scenes from a marriage", which sells at the same pricepoint on its own.

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My Man Godfrey
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#88 Post by My Man Godfrey » Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:05 pm

Watching "The Falls" is like reading the phone book while on a heavy acid trip. (And I love the movie too.)

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#89 Post by Handsome Dan » Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:56 am

I just picked this up on Friday and haven't had a chance to crack it open yet. Just one question, though: how do you pronounce "Sjoberg"?

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nyasa
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#90 Post by nyasa » Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:02 pm

Handsome Dan wrote:I just picked this up on Friday and haven't had a chance to crack it open yet. Just one question, though: how do you pronounce "Sjoberg"?
My best stab at it would be 'H-yer-berry'.

'Sj' is roughly pronounced like the 'ch' in the Scottish word 'loch', from the back of the throat. The o has an umlaut, and so is pronounced 'err'. And 'berg' is pronounced 'berry'. (So Bergman is actually 'Berryman').

I stand to be corrected by a 100% Swede. I'm only 25%, I've only been there once, and I don't speak the language.

Joshua Dago
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#91 Post by Joshua Dago » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:11 am

i have a question about the titles in this boxset.

it's not like these are the first 4 bergman directed movies. why isn't Music is My Love or Ship Bound to India in it?

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Matt
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#92 Post by Matt » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:26 am

Joshua Dago wrote:why isn't Music is My Love or Ship Bound to India in it?
Could be any one or more of several reasons: they could not get the rights (neither was produced or distributed by Svensk Filmindustri as were all of the films in the set), there are no good film elements available for DVD transfer, Criterion didn't think the films were good enough, and so on.

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domino harvey
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#93 Post by domino harvey » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:41 am

plenty of great early Bergman movies have been left out of the set, many much better than those included, such as Prison, Waiting Women, Summer Interlude, and the above-mentioned Music in the Darkness. A Ship Bound to India, Brink of Life and a third title which escapes me now have supposedly been released recently in Sweden with English subs but I have yet to hear anyone check in with a report on it.

Joshua Dago
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#94 Post by Joshua Dago » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:16 am

Matt: the titles i mentioned are by far better than a couple in this set. i am looking for a definite reason, not a speculation. thanks anyway.

Domino Harvey: i obviously agree on those movies.

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Matt
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#95 Post by Matt » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:04 pm

Joshua Dago wrote:Matt: the titles i mentioned are by far better than a couple in this set. i am looking for a definite reason, not a speculation. thanks anyway.
If you want a definite reason, why are you asking here? Ask Jonathan Turell.

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Werdegast
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#96 Post by Werdegast » Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:12 pm

domino harvey wrote:plenty of great early Bergman movies have been left out of the set, many much better than those included, such as Prison, Waiting Women, Summer Interlude, and the above-mentioned Music in the Darkness. A Ship Bound to India, Brink of Life and a third title which escapes me now have supposedly been released recently in Sweden with English subs but I have yet to hear anyone check in with a report on it.
There are three (older)Bergman movies coming up here in Sweden:

Nära Livet(Brink of Life)

Skepp till Indialand(Ship to India)

Det regnar pÃ¥ vÃ¥r kärlek(It Rains on Our Love)

All movies seem to have english subs accordingly to this swedish DVD shop,and they will be released sometime in August.

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Gregory
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#97 Post by Gregory » Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:23 pm

I just opened this set and found an extra copy of Torment and no Port of Call. I've informed Criterion via the support form on their site. This is probably a very rare fluke, but just in case those who (like me) often leave these things sitting around sealed for quite a while may want to open this and check that all the titles are there.

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My Man Godfrey
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#98 Post by My Man Godfrey » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:23 am

Second (or third) those saying Brink of Life is terrific; I recently picked up a used VHS copy, and was really impressed. (Factoid: John Waters, who has inappropriately* good taste -- his top-tens in ArtForum are always sharp -- picked Brink of Life, in a recent BFI poll, as his all-time favorite movie.)

* (b/c, you know, he's the king of bad taste . . .)

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