804 A Brighter Summer Day

[George Kaplan]

I can't resist weighing in here since I love all three. I think of Hou as the most demanding of viewers and also the most rewarding. However, I've not loved any of his recent films as much as I've loved I DON'T WANT TO SLEEP ALONE, which is more and more like candy (or coffee, or maybe heroin?) to me with each viewing - I put it on when I want to "bliss out." Tsai use of space, particularly depth of space, and the geometry of spaces seems to me about as sophisticated as any filmmaker I've seen.

So where do all of you stand on Jia and Weerasethakul? (Me, I love them too.)

Also, in my experience I've found that Tsai's presentation of sexuality can be troubling for some viewers, as well as his fondness for camp elements. Does his gay sensibility have anything to do with how one feels? Positively of negatively? And not to imply that this is connected to one's own sexuality or by extension any "phobias." (Writing as gay man, I confess a loathing of much of "gay culture," in cinema and elsewhere. Madonna, for example, has always seemed to me to be nothing but one station in an unholy trinity I think of as "the plagues of the 1980's", alongside Ronald Reagan and AIDS.) But I confess I respond to something in Tsai's "queerness" (maybe a better term here), and likewise in Weerasethakul. They both seem representative of a some cultural shift that finally allows queer filmmakers to create without having their queerness seem like the totality of their identity.

Anyway, dismissing either as "boring" is unhelpful and simply suggests a lack of patience on the part of the viewer, IMO.

Not only that, but haven't we all - be honest - been bored occasionally by films we love, especially the difficult ones? It depends on my readiness to be receptive on that particular occasion. For me, I've been enraptured by films that have bored me on the second viewing, or simply put me to sleep, only to view them again and find more beauty still. For example, Dreyer's GERTRUD - anybody? - Jia's THE WORLD, Godard's WEEKEND (among others), as well as works by Griffith, Vertov, Naruse, Rivette, the Dardennes, Hong Sans Soo. I still can't get my attention span around CLAIRE'S KNEE and I suspect it must be me because I love Rohmer above most all other cinema.

[Stefan Andersson]

What about the alleged TV version of CITY OF SADNESS? Has anyone ever seen it? I think I´ve read about a TV version. No info handy, sorry, never found any.

[Michael Kerpan]

I can't imagine being bored by Naruse -- unless I try to rewatch Battle of the Roses.

Tsai didn't _bore_ me so much as aggravate me (in a way I found totally unenjoyable). I love Jia (especially Platform and The World) and (as of yet) have no opinion on AW. The less talking in a Rohmer film, the less likelihood I'll be bored.

It is stupid that no one has put out a first-rate DVD of City of Sadness -- or any other HHH film -- except for the lovely (English subbed) French release of Millennium Mambo.

[jsteffe]

It's so nice to hear that Criterion is putting this out eventually!

I saw a rare 35mm print of A Brighter Summer Day about ten years ago here in Atlanta. It's still one of the most haunting experiences I can recall having in a movie theater--the ending left me utterly devastated. (In a good way, of course!) Despairing of ever seeing it on DVD, I recently tracked down the English subtitled Hong Kong laserdisc. Actually, it's not too bad considering how those things often are...

[Jun-Dai]

Anyway, dismissing either as "boring" is unhelpful and simply suggests a lack of patience on the part of the viewer, IMO.

I don't entirely agree. Some films demand more patience than others, and if I know that a particular film is known to be boring, then I'll often be careful about whom I drag to see it and as a Netflix rental it might sit on my mantel for a while before I get around to watching it (especially if it's known to be boring and also happens to be long).

As my friend said after watching Café Lumière, "when people use the stereotype of the slow, artsy foreign films without a lot of dialogue, this is the sort of film they're talking about."

Being bored by a film does mean a lack of engagement on the viewer's part, but different films engage different people on different levels. If a film is boring, then it means there wasn't much engagement, but that doesn't mean it's the viewer's fault for not trying hard enough. It would take a pretty dedicated viewer, for example, to be engaged by Andy Warhol's Sleep.

A lot of people tell me they prefer less "brainy" and more Hollywoody films than the ones I try to drag them to because when they go to a movie they seek escapism. But for me, the epitome of escapism is to be fully engaged in a long, slow, and especially enveloping film like Andrei Rublev or Still Life, because then I'm left exploring that same world for hours or days after watching the film whereas with most Hollywood films I tend to stop thinking about them when the movie's over. With a film like Star Trek, I never really escape, and when I do it's pretty much over once the credits start rolling.

I still don't understand how a film like Vive L'amour could be not boring to someone that is bored by Flowers of Shanghai, The Flight of the Red Balloon, Millennium Mambo, and Café Lumière.

[swo17]

I don't entirely agree. Some films demand more patience than others, and if I know that a particular film is known to be boring, then I'll often be careful about whom I drag to see it and as a Netflix rental it might sit on my mantel for a while before I get around to watching it (especially if it's known to be boring and also happens to be long).
...
Being bored by a film does mean a lack of engagement on the viewer's part, but different films engage different people on different levels. If a film is boring, then it means there wasn't much engagement, but that doesn't mean it's the viewer's fault for not trying hard enough. It would take a pretty dedicated viewer, for example, to be engaged by Andy Warhol's Sleep.

I still think that "boring" is useless as a criticism though, especially when applied to slow-moving films. Being slow-moving is practically a genre. Some films within that genre work better than others. And yes, understandably, at times you have to be in a certain mood to appreciate them. But to say such a film is "boring" only implies that the viewer did not have the patience to determine how the film stacks up against other films that are trying to do a similar thing. Once you know what the film is trying to do, you can criticize it for any number of other reasons, and you can do so in a way that has meaning to others that might rely on your criticism. But "boring" tells me nothing. Saying you didn't like a slow-paced film because it was boring is like saying you didn't like a horror movie because it was scary.

[Jun-Dai]

I still think that "boring" is useless as a criticism though, especially when applied to slow-moving films. Being slow-moving is practically a genre. Some films within that genre work better than others. And yes, understandably, at times you have to be in a certain mood to appreciate them. But to say such a film is "boring" only implies that the viewer did not have the patience to determine how the film stacks up against other films that are trying to do a similar thing. Once you know what the film is trying to do, you can criticize it for any number of other reasons, and you can do so in a way that has meaning to others that might rely on your criticism. But "boring" tells me nothing. Saying you didn't like a slow-paced film because it was boring is like saying you didn't like a horror movie because it was scary.

I'm not sure about "useless", but I suppose you're right in that there is limited value in a communicating purely subjective experience when the film is known for frequently producing that experience. It says more if I say that Star Trek is boring and The Incredibles is scary. But regardless, when communicating our opinions of films, so much of it does come out in purely subjective terms, regardless of whether one would expect it or not. Alien is "scary", Shall We Dance? is "funny", Days of Heaven is "beautiful", Bicycle Thieves is "touching" and "affecting", Terminator 2 is "exciting", and Andy Warhol's Sleep is "boring". Mundane observations, perhaps, but so commonplace here and in professional reviews that it seems a little silly to get worked up about it. I think the real problem that you and I have is when someone decides that such an observation is sufficient to describe the work. If it's not worth your time to explain why you were bored, touched, scared, then why mention it in the first place?

[domino harvey]

Believe it or not, we actually have a thread for this discussion.

[Jun-Dai]

Holy shit. dvdane! I totally forgot about that thread.

[Jun-Dai]

Getting back to the main thread…

It would be interesting if Criterion could dig up anything about the actual events that inspired the film.

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

It is stupid that no one has put out a first-rate DVD of City of Sadness -- or any other HHH film -- except for the lovely (English subbed) French release of Millennium Mambo.

I think I've mentioned this before, but the R2Js of Good Men, Good Women, Goodbye South Goodbye, Flowers of Shanghai and Café Lumière all look very good and completely destroy any other versions I've seen (although the HK Café Lumière apparently uses the R2J transfer, so you can save some money by picking up that one instead). I'm also told that the R2J Millennium Mambo is at least as good as the R2F, although given the price premium I doubt there's much reason to go with it over the French disc (or the Australian one, which is supposedly an R2F port). There are also French releases of the '90s films, but I haven't seen them -- I can't imagine that they're anything but improvements on the R1s/R3s, though.

Anyway I don't think these films lack for decent elements, they just need a distributor that actually gives a shit. A Brighter Summer Day (and possibly Hou's pre-City work) are a different matter.

[Michael Kerpan]

I think I've mentioned this before, but the R2Js of Good Men, Good Women, Goodbye South Goodbye, Flowers of Shanghai and Café Lumière all look very good and completely destroy any other versions I've seen (although the HK Café Lumière apparently uses the R2J transfer, so you can save some money by picking up that one instead). I'm also told that the R2J Millennium Mambo is at least as good as the R2F, although given the price premium I doubt there's much reason to go with it over the French disc (or the Australian one, which is supposedly an R2F port). There are also French releases of the '90s films, but I haven't seen them -- I can't imagine that they're anything but improvements on the R1s/R3s, though.

Even so, only the French (and Australian) Millennium Mambo and (presumably) HK Cafe Lumiere would have English subtitles. ;~}

[denti alligator]

I think I've mentioned this before, but the R2Js of Good Men, Good Women, Goodbye South Goodbye, Flowers of Shanghai and Café Lumière all look very good and completely destroy any other versions I've seen

I have the HK Café Lumière. Can you please point me to where I can find the others.

[Jun-Dai]

Those jerks in Japan have three HHH box sets: 1990s + Café Lumière, 1980s, vol. 1, and 1980s, vol. 2. You can find these by searching on 侯孝賢 on amazon.co.jp, yesasia.com, etc. But as Kerpan points out, all indications are that they have only Japanese subtitles.

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

Yes, that's correct, Japanese subs only. And since they're R2Js you have to take out another mortgage to buy them.

On that note, it might also be worth mentioning that there was a Japanese disc of Mahjong (under the title カップルズ/"Couples") -- but again, Japanese subs only (although I think maybe a third of the dialogue is in English) and it's well below the standard of Criterion's Yi Yi. Plus it seems to be OOP.

[George Kaplan]

I can't imagine being bored by Naruse

Michael, you're quite right. I was conflating/confusing two similar types of viewing experiences: the "boring" example outlined; and the kind exemplified by Naruse wherein repeated viewings can necessitate an entire reconsideration of the film and its strategies.

[sharunasbresson]

At the screening of A Brighter Summer Day in Bologna, during last week Cinema Ritrovato Festival, Pierre Rissient who introduced the film made a brief digression about the imminent edition of Edward Yang's Dvds.

He said that not only criterion is planning the edition of A Brighter Summer day, but also Carlotta is planning to publish all his feature films (and as I cherish my Chantal Akerman boxset from Carlotta I'm starting my personal countdown: looking forward especially watching Taipei Story again!!!)

all this obviously, thinking that I may always trust someone like Pierre Rissient.

[zedz]

At the screening of A Brighter Summer Day in Bologna, during last week Cinema Ritrovato Festival, Pierre Rissient who introduced the film made a brief digression about the imminent edition of Edward Yang's Dvds.

He said that not only criterion is planning the edition of A Brighter Summer day, but also Carlotta is planning to publish all his feature films (and as I cherish my Chantal Akerman boxset from Carlotta I'm starting my personal countdown: looking forward especially watching Taipei Story again!!!)

all this obviously, thinking that I may always trust someone like Pierre Rissient.

Carlotta to the (unsubbed) rescue yet again! Now there's no excuse for Criterion not to do an Eclipse box or two (or for MoC to pip them at the post).

[ellipsis7]

The Carlotta editions will presumably have rather excellent French subtitles - I'm more than satisfied with their superb edition (similarly subbed) of Antonioni's LA CHINE CHUNG KUO...

[jsteffe]

The Carlotta editions will presumably have rather excellent French subtitles - I'm more than satisfied with their superb edition (similarly subbed) of Antonioni's LA CHINE CHUNG KUO...

I agree wholeheartedly about Carlotta's French subs! I was *very* impressed with the quality of the translations for the Yoshida films--so far I've watched EROS PLUS MASSACRE and PURGATORY EROICA. My only complaint is that their timings can be on the short side. Ideally, we'll see the other Edward Yang films with English subs at some point, but in the meantime, if your French is reasonably good I wouldn't hesitate to get any Carlotta edition that comes out.

I'm also keeping my fingers crossed about a future Criterion edition of A BRIGHTER SUMMER DAY. I saw the long version on 35mm here in Atlanta about a decade ago and was completely bowled over by it. It's one of a handful of films to come out in the last two decades that I would call masterpiece without any reservations. I have the Hong Kong English subbed laserdisc and was despairing of the possibility of ever seeing a better edition.

[dekalog]

A complete uncut restoration of A Bright Summer Day will be shown at the Hong Kong Summer IFF this summer:

http://www.summeriff.org.hk/en/programme_film02.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[zedz]

I'm also keeping my fingers crossed about a future Criterion edition of A BRIGHTER SUMMER DAY.

I've been thinking about possible supplements for this. There's so much happening on screen and so much historical and contemporary context that can be shaded in that it could definitely do with a commentary, even though it would be a marathon effort for the lucky scholar. Maybe they could try the round-robin approach of Seven Samurai again?

Given that this would need to be two discs, there will be lots of space for extras. Yang's first film, Desires from the In Our Time portmanteau, would be an appropriate inclusion, as it's his only other period film and the main character is the prototype for Ming in the film. Finding decent elements will be the challenge here, but with any luck it's already part of Carlotta's reissue effort. (Hey, they could even include the entirety of In Our Time, as the first film of the Tawiwanese New Wave).

Some documentation of the two versions would be desirable, such as a compare-and-contrast featurette, though this information could be folded into a commentary as well, and there are plenty of collaborators who could offer their perspectives. I'd love to hear what Chang Chen has to say about the experience of working on the film. As with the commentary, there are plenty of aspects of the film and its production / reception that warrant attention in the form of featurettes, or these could all be merged into a longer piece. I'd certainly like to see something meaty on the historical context of the story and the actual events on which it was based.

[tagimaucia]

I don't read Chinese, but this site appears to have some old Taiwanese newspaper clippings related to the actual murder the film was (loosely?) based on.

http://mypaper.pchome.com.tw/news/kuan0 ... 227223534/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyone able to summarize?

[AisleSeat]

For those of you who are interested, the Freer/Sackler Gallery in Washington, DC is screening A Brighter Summer Day Sunday, June 13, 2010.

Full information:
Title: A Brighter Summer Day (1961), 237 min.; Mandarin, Shanghainese, and Hokkien with English Subtitles
Screening Location: Meyer Auditorium, Freer Gallery of Art/Arthur M. Sacker Gallery, Washington, DC (12th St. & Independence Ave., SW)
Date/Time: Sunday, June 13, 2010, 1:00pm (One and only screening!)
Cost: Free (Seating is available on a first-come, first-served basis. Doors to the Meyer Auditorium open approximately thirty minutes before the show.)

The Freer/Gallery newsletter notes BSD (as well as Hou's A City of Sadness, which screened earlier today) are being presented in "newly restored prints." Could this suggest that issues involving the planned Criterion DVD release are resolved?

[zedz]

The Freer/Gallery newsletter notes BSD (as well as Hou's A City of Sadness, which screened earlier today) are being presented in "newly restored prints." Could this suggest that issues involving the planned Criterion DVD release are resolved?

I certainly hope so! The World Film Foundation (think that's what it's called) restored this a couple of years ago, though last we heard there was one passage from the integral version that was still AWOL, but since that bit of news surfaced after the Cannes screening, they could still be circulating the 'penultimate' restoration.