Criterion and Warner Bros.

The scuttlebutt on Criterion, Eclipse, and Janus Films. Lists and polls are STRONGLY discouraged.
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Drucker
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#676 Post by Drucker » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:54 pm

Was The Searchers restoration that produced the original blu-ray not 4k? I'm intrigued by it and North by Northwest. There are a ton of posts about their last restorations, how millions were spent to do them, and after all that the releases were still a bit disappointing. Comparing both blu-rays to the 35mm releases I've seen I actually don't believe they fare too poorly, which makes me wonder if they are merely victims of a terrible encode and perhaps some 2008-era grain management that looks bad, but the underlying restorations already look great.

FlickeringWindow
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#677 Post by FlickeringWindow » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:37 am

Drucker wrote:Was The Searchers restoration that produced the original blu-ray not 4k? I'm intrigued by it and North by Northwest. There are a ton of posts about their last restorations, how millions were spent to do them, and after all that the releases were still a bit disappointing. Comparing both blu-rays to the 35mm releases I've seen I actually don't believe they fare too poorly, which makes me wonder if they are merely victims of a terrible encode and perhaps some 2008-era grain management that looks bad, but the underlying restorations already look great.
The Searchers was 4K circa-2004 from the 8 perf 35mm color separations since the camera negative was too faded.

North by Northwest was 4K (likely scanned in 6/8K) circa-2009 from the 8 perf faded camera negative plus the 8 perf B&W yellow separation to replace the missing color on the negative.

Both are VC-1 lower bitrate encodes on Blu, though.

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tenia
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#678 Post by tenia » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:05 pm

The NxNW scan was indeed 8K and downscaled to 4K for restoration.
As for the result, I think they are just results of the time. I'm quite sure that if Warner was to perform the same type of workflow now on these, the results would be better because the experience in digital restoration and scanning are better now.
I don't know if the 2015 BFI 4K restoration of Doctor Zhivago is a clear improvement over what Warner did in 2010, but that would be another movie I tend to compare (digital PQ wise) to NxNW and The Searchers and which would need to be improved upon too. I saw the Warner restoration in theaters 2 years ago, and it just wasn't good enough anymore.

yoloswegmaster
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#679 Post by yoloswegmaster » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:36 pm

Warner has discontinued A Clockwork Orange and Papillon. Could they be potential Criterion releases?

FilmNerdJamie
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#680 Post by FilmNerdJamie » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:03 pm

yoloswegmaster wrote:Warner has discontinued A Clockwork Orange and Papillon. Could they be potential Criterion releases?
I feel like all of Kubrick's catalog is Criterion-bound. Not a matter of when but in what order do they happen. Barry Lyndon is debatably a "lesser" film (in that, it's not one that instantly comes to mind like 2001 or The Shining). One could see a more-recognized title being next like The Shining or, as you suggested, A Clockwork Orange.

Take it with a grain of salt, but I'd heard Excalibur was getting the Criterion treatment awhile back from a pal who also informed me of the Silence of the Lamb reissue and Night of the Living Dead last fall. Asked someone at Warner Archives who politely said, "No comment."

Noiradelic
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#681 Post by Noiradelic » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:43 am

yoloswegmaster wrote:Warner has discontinued A Clockwork Orange and Papillon. Could they be potential Criterion releases?
You sure both Blu editions of Clockwork Orange are OOP?

I don't see them doing Papillon, but anything's possible these days.

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#682 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:17 pm

Amazon appears to still have ACO in stock but I don't know whether that's indicative or not if it's OOP at this point.

I'd love it if it all went to Criterion eventually, but I'd say it's a little early as to whether or not it's a certainty (at least with the more popular titles). That said I won't be surprised if WB doesn't do another Kubrick set. They've done like 3-4 already and I imagine the prospect of another one isn't a top priority.

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Ribs
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#683 Post by Ribs » Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:22 pm

And also even if it is OOP it is fairly likely just to pave the way to a Warners UHD.

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Big Ben
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#684 Post by Big Ben » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:27 pm

A Clockwork Orange would certainly be a money maker I'm sure. I've seen the film twice and the film hasn't aged very well (At all.) with me but I'd certainly be willing to give it another go. I confess I would much prefer Eyes Wide Shut which I only saw on VHS my junior year in high school and it was edited. I shouldn't need to tell you which parts. With Barry Lyndon coming out I certainly don't feel unjustified hoping it comes.

We could of course all be wrong and Warner Brothers will make a "new" release.

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#685 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:46 pm

2001 is one of my absolute top dream discs for Criterion to get. It'd be a chance for the old laserdisc special features to surface, plus I'd imagine whatever new content they would find would be more fascinating than some of the ones on the WB disc (people like Spielberg and James Cameron fawning over it).
I confess I would much prefer Eyes Wide Shut which I only saw on VHS my junior year in high school and it was edited. I shouldn't need to tell you which parts.
What you should tell us is how EWS managed to be shown in HS.

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Big Ben
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#686 Post by Big Ben » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:53 pm

flyonthewall2983 wrote:2001 is one of my absolute top dream discs for Criterion to get. It'd be a chance for the old laserdisc special features to surface, plus I'd imagine whatever new content they would find would be more fascinating than some of the ones on the WB disc (people like Spielberg and James Cameron fawning over it).
I would imagine this would be a dream come true but I'm unsure whether or not Warner Brothers would let it go. They did find the twenty minutes Kubrick excised though (In a salt mine I think?) which I think would make a great extra. It'd certainly sell.
What you should tell us is how EWS managed to be shown in HS.
Woops! I should have been more specific there. I happened to be a Junior in 2008 and happened upon a copy outside of the school at a shop that was closing. I watched it at home on a pathetically small TV. My state/town isn't exactly bustling with film culture so you take what you can get.

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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#687 Post by FilmNerdJamie » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:49 pm

Big Ben wrote:I would imagine this would be a dream come true but I'm unsure whether or not Warner Brothers would let it go. They did find the twenty minutes Kubrick excised though (In a salt mine I think?) which I think would make a great extra. It'd certainly sell.
Did they?!

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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#688 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:02 pm

Yeah, several years ago.

Werewolf by Night

Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#689 Post by Werewolf by Night » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:48 pm


FilmNerdJamie
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#690 Post by FilmNerdJamie » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:25 pm

flyonthewall2983 wrote:Yeah, several years ago.
Werewolf by Night wrote:More info on the found footage
Image

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jazzo
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#691 Post by jazzo » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:29 pm

I’d love it if they could somehow slip the Soderbergh recut in as an Easter egg.

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The Fanciful Norwegian
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#692 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:18 am

Should probably be said that WB subsequently issued a terse statement essentially saying they were already aware of the "lost" footage and had no plans to release it. My guess is that the Kubrick estate hasn't come around to the idea yet. If they ever do then there's also the pie-fight ending for Dr. Strangelove that's locked away in a vault in England (and which was publicly screened at least once before the estate intervened).

Orlac
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#693 Post by Orlac » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:31 am

I wonder if the missing end scene from The Shining still exists? It was removed less than a week after the premiere!

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colinr0380
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#694 Post by colinr0380 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:33 am

FilmNerdJamie wrote:
yoloswegmaster wrote:Warner has discontinued A Clockwork Orange and Papillon. Could they be potential Criterion releases?
Take it with a grain of salt, but I'd heard Excalibur was getting the Criterion treatment awhile back from a pal who also informed me of the Silence of the Lamb reissue and Night of the Living Dead last fall. Asked someone at Warner Archives who politely said, "No comment."
Excalibur would be a fantastic release. It still remains the ultimate 'dark, grungy' high fantasy version of the legend (anticipating a whole run of dark fantasy through the early to mid 80s), maintaining a delicate balance between a sense of wonder whilst filling the characters full of horribly human, adult flaws - the kind of flaws that the more magical figures can inspire them to rise above and/or exploit.

Though it needs to appear in a month where Monty Python and the Holy Grail and Lancelot du Lac also get brought out, for contrast!

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MichaelB
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#695 Post by MichaelB » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:04 am

I always assumed that Monty Python and the Holy Grail was a direct piss-take of Lancelot du Lac until I looked at its production history against the Bresson film’s release history and realised that this would be a logistical impossibility - unless one of the Monty Python team was treated to an early screening in France (and why would they have been?), they’d have had to fly down to Cannes mid-production for the world premiere. And Lancelot du Lac didn’t open theatrically in Britain until several months after Holy Grail - for some reason it took more than a year to cross the Channel.

So it really does seem to be a very unfortunate coincidence.

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colinr0380
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#696 Post by colinr0380 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:18 pm

Monty Python and the Holy Grail still has one of my (and my dad's) favourite scenes!
SpoilerShow
From "strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government" to "Help! Help! I'm being repressed!", its wonderfully politically biting!
But nothing beats the always relevant conversation between two peasants: "Who's that then?" "I dunno, must be a King", "Why?","He hasn't got shit all over him"

But really every scene is a gem in its own way!

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The Fanciful Norwegian
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#697 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:16 pm

MichaelB wrote: And Lancelot du Lac didn’t open theatrically in Britain until several months after Holy Grail - for some reason it took more than a year to cross the Channel.
There's an interview with one of the Pythons somewhere (probably in The Pythons) in which he claims that the more violent bits of Lancelot du Lac drew laughs at some screenings because they brought to mind the Black Knight sequence.

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Ashirg
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#698 Post by Ashirg » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:10 pm

Whatever happened to Linklater's Suburbia?

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MoonlitKnight
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#699 Post by MoonlitKnight » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:36 am

Good question. Forman's "Taking Off" as well (though it's wasn't a Warner title). And wasn't Skolimowski's "Deep End" also earmarked at one point (also not a Warner title but still)? :-k

FilmNerdJamie
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Re: Criterion and Warner Bros.

#700 Post by FilmNerdJamie » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:13 pm

colinr0380 wrote:Excalibur would be a fantastic release. It still remains the ultimate 'dark, grungy' high fantasy version of the legend (anticipating a whole run of dark fantasy through the early to mid 80s), maintaining a delicate balance between a sense of wonder whilst filling the characters full of horribly human, adult flaws - the kind of flaws that the more magical figures can inspire them to rise above and/or exploit.

Though it needs to appear in a month where Monty Python and the Holy Grail and Lancelot du Lac also get brought out, for contrast!
Given that it's one of their stock-catalog titles (and the fact Boorman's other masterworks Deliverance and Point Blank got their due), it's shocking Excalibur hasn't gotten a proper home-video release with top-notch transfer and extras. I say that but I could see Point Blank get the Criterion treatment too.

Would be nice for them to get on that while Boorman is still with us... and, while we're at it, someone please put a camera in front of him and get him to talk about The Exorcist II: The Heretic.

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