Criterion, major studios and the DVD marketplace

[Narshty]

With House of Games now on the slate, that's around four or five major American studios that Criterion is now in on-going licensing agreements with (MGM/Fox, Paramount, Lionsgate and Universal), and all except Universal would have nothing to do with them in the earlier days of DVD.

There was an interview with the ever-candid William Lustig on some internet horror radio station (EDIT: here it is - just scroll down) where he started talking about what the growth of the DVD marketplace has meant to companies like Blue Underground. Paraphrasing, he said that, paradoxically, it was now much harder to release the sorts of cult and horror movies he's previously released because there's such a huge wave of product entering the marketplace every week. Actually getting shelf space and the necessary pre-orders from retailers is almost impossible nowadays.

Asked if he'd put out something along the lines of Fulci's Don't Torture a Duckling nowadays, he said he wouldn't because it would be economically unfeasible. Seven or eight years ago, retailers and collectors simply wanted to get the shelves filled up, so carving out a niche to cater to the young male fanboy audience who embraced the new technology and loved Euro-horror was financially sound.

But sad though this is for most niche independents, is Criterion actually benefitting from the shift to ultra-mainstream in the marketplace? If DVD is becoming so mainstream that the majors want to focus all their attention on the big fish of the marketplace (new movies, straight-to-DVD titles, major classics), does releasing some of their "non-prestige" product under the Criterion umbrella seem a better venture (financially as well as image-wise) than putting out a barebones or half-arsed "collector's" version themselves?

Even Sony, that gigantic behemoth, is starting to licence sizeable chunks of their catalogue out to companies like DD Home Entertainment in the UK (they've just struck a deal for a whole mess of classic British films, including over a dozen never-released Hammer titles), so is this actually a genuine turning of the tide in terms of the relationship between studios and independents? Criterion will never get Some Like It Hot or Blade Runner again, but the likes of Sunday Bloody Sunday and Burn! seem distinctly within reach. It's practically laserdisc days again, except due to the market segments of an ultra-mainstream format rather than an ultra-niche one.

Any thoughts?

[Tommaso]

As everything else, this has some positive and negative aspects. On the one hand it could mean that if Criterion actually HAS the possibility to get films from the major studios their programme might become a little more 'mainstream', thus leaving less space for 'specialist' films like "Symbiopsychotoxi.." or "WR:Mysteries of the Organism". On the other hand, it might mean that we would finally get to see proper dvd versions of films already released by the bigger companies in the stone age of dvd production, which these studios no longer care for or at least won't do a new transfer for (not to speak of extras). Kurosawa's "Rhapsody in August" and "Madadayo" immediately come to my mind. Or think of their out-of-print Hitchcock films, the releases of which superseded the versions from other companies in any conceivable aspect. So basically I'd say it's good if Criterion gets the chance to have a wider selection of possible films for a release. And I trust them enough to believe that they won't stray into "Armageddon" or "The Rock" field again.

[colinr0380]

I agree, it sounds like this is a similar situation that happened with Criterion on Laserdisc. With all the majors gearing up for HD and deserting the DVD market (or at least not gripping the rights to some of their less profitable titles so close to their chests now that their concentration might be elsewhere) perhaps it is giving Criterion the opportunity to pick up more of their releases.

But it could be any number of reasons - perhaps there has been a change in management and therefore policy at some studios?

[a.khan]

With all the majors gearing up for HD and deserting the DVD market (or at least not gripping the rights to some of their less profitable titles so close to their chests now that their concentration might be elsewhere) perhaps it is giving Criterion the opportunity to pick up more of their releases.

An excellent point.

[jedgeco]

With all the majors gearing up for HD and deserting the DVD market (or at least not gripping the rights to some of their less profitable titles so close to their chests now that their concentration might be elsewhere) perhaps it is giving Criterion the opportunity to pick up more of their releases.

An excellent point.

This is dead on. Everybody realizes that the format has entered it's late stages and is trying to push out as much as possible so that it can be sold one last time before something else (HD, VOD, downloading) goes mainstream.

What would be really interesting would be to see CC's licencing agreements for, say, House of Games or Ace in the Hole. I've often speculated that early Criterion DVDs of studio pictures like Silence of the Lambs or RoboCop were possible because Criterion had ambiguous licenses for rights home video rights on "optical disc" that allowed them to assert the right to release these titles on DVD as well as LD. I would bet dollars to donuts that the license for Ace in the Hole is explicitly limited to DVD.

[Narshty]

Not sure I agree at all. You can wish for an across-the-board technology upgrade all you want, but both HD-formats are currently cornering a tiny share of the home video marketplace. Some titles are selling in the hundreds. Both formats currently are to DVD what laserdisc was to VHS. I don't think it's a case of the studios crying 'abandon ship' - they'd be hurling them out there rather than licensing a handful to a specialist boutique label.

I've often speculated that early Criterion DVDs of studio pictures like Silence of the Lambs or RoboCop were possible because Criterion had ambiguous licenses for rights home video rights on "optical disc" that allowed them to assert the right to release these titles on DVD as well as LD. I would bet dollars to donuts that the license for Ace in the Hole is explicitly limited to DVD.

Well, yes, it probably is, but that's 100% standard in licensing contracts (I'll even bet you the contract states "R1 only" too).

Incidentally, Silence of the Lambs, Robocop and Unbearable Lightness of Being came about through a deal directly with Orion Home Video to put out DVD special editions (Image handled the barebones versions of the first two), not via tricky wording; Criterion unsurprisingly wanted to launch on DVD with some major titles. Of course, Orion were soon after bought by MGM, but the original limited-period licences was honoured.

[jedgeco]

I wouldn't even say that HD/Blu-Ray is to DVD as LD was to VHS; it's closer to what VHS is to DVD today (i.e., nothing). Still, DVD sales have peaked. I would be shocked if forward-thinking home video execs didn't realize that we're at the start of DVDs 3rd act and that they weren't trying to get as much product in the pipeline as possible. I don't think it's a case of abandon ship either; more like an acknowledgement that the ride is almost over and it's time to start walking toward the exit.

Incidentally, Silence of the Lambs, Robocop and Unbearable Lightness of Being came about through a deal directly with Orion Home Video ....

Interesting. I'm surprised, then, that CC didn't put more effort into them or negotiate for longer licenses.

[Gigi M.]

They couldn't. MGM policy is to not license their product to third parties. We're not even sure how House of Games made it to a Criterion spine. I guess we'll know when it comes out. I think this has to with FOX, since the current MGM edition is very much in print.

[miless]

I wouldn't even say that HD/Blu-Ray is to DVD as LD was to VHS; it's closer to what VHS is to DVD today (i.e., nothing). Still, DVD sales have peaked. I would be shocked if forward-thinking home video execs didn't realize that we're at the start of DVDs 3rd act and that they weren't trying to get as much product in the pipeline as possible. I don't think it's a case of abandon ship either; more like an acknowledgement that the ride is almost over and it's time to start walking toward the exit.

we must also remember that DVDs will play in HD players. And many titles will not need to be presented in HD (due to many factors, particularly source material).

[Tommaso]

Precisely. And don't forget that the newer system will not be a huge commercial success until customers are sure which of the two systems, HD-DVD or BluRay, will eventually 'win'. Have a look at the audio market: how many people you know have an SACD-player? How many did buy a DAT recorder when it came out in the old cassette days? At that time, three different digital tape technologies were competing, and NONE did win with regard to the wider public (they all went down the drain commercially). I hope this doesn't happen with the new post-dvd systems,of course, but I guess most 'normal' customers are rather happy with dvd quality.

[miless]

Precisely. And don't forget that the newer system will not be a huge commercial success until customers are sure which of the two systems, HD-DVD or BluRay, will eventually 'win'. Have a look at the audio market: how many people you know have an SACD-player? How many did buy a DAT recorder when it came out in the old cassette days? At that time, three different digital tape technologies were competing, and NONE did win with regard to the wider public (they all went down the drain commercially). I hope this doesn't happen with the new post-dvd systems,of course, but I guess most 'normal' customers are rather happy with dvd quality.

I think that if anything does become popular, it'll be the HD/Bluray players that are capable of playing both formats... It's safer and both formats lose (or win, depending on your outlook... but the whole problem is based upon two different companies going head to head to own a certain market... now neither will, and millions upon millions of dollars will have been wasted.)

[Derek Estes]

So, do you think this means we might finally see a Criterion release of PARK ROW?

[Tribe]

we must also remember that DVDs will play in HD players. And many titles will not need to be presented in HD (due to many factors, particularly source material).

Is this correct? It was my understanding, and I realize that what I don't understand about lots of things could fill Michigan Stadium, but I thought that the DVDs we play today are not playable in HD DVD players.

Tribe

[miless]

Is this correct? It was my understanding, and I realize that what I don't understand about lots of things could file Michigan Stadium, but I thought that the DVDs we play today are not playable in HD DVD players.

I read an article (from where, I do not remember) a while back stating that both new blue laser formats will be able to read standard DVDs... this article was released a few months before the release of any actual hardware, but I assume that it was telling the truth.

Here's what the Wiki said.

[Gigi M.]

Specs of the Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD Player:

Technical Details
Plays high-def HD DVD discs for sharper, more detailed picture performance than standard DVD discs ; measures 17.7 x 4.3 x 13.4 inches (WxHxD)

Backwards compatible with current DVD and CD formats; upconverts DVD movie discs to near high-definition

Ethernet port for upgrades; USB port on front; compatible with MP3, WMA, and JPEG files

Connections: composite (1 out), S-Video (1 out), component (1 out), HDMI (1 out), USB, Ethernet

DVD offer Dolby True HD/Dolby Digital/DTS decoding; coaxial and optical digital audio outputs

[Tribe]

Actually that's great news, guys. Thanks.

Tribe

[Tommaso]

I know we're getting seriously off-topic with this tech talk, but what about region coding with these new formats? Will there be again regional codes, and if so, can these players again be modified to play all discs?

[fdm]

I know we're getting seriously off-topic with this tech talk, but what about region coding with these new formats? Will there be again regional codes, and if so, can these players again be modified to play all discs?

I just read somewhere the other day that Blu-Rays are region coded and HD-DVDs are not. (Whether this is just the current situation or long term was not indicated.)

[patrick]

I feel like the current attitude from major studios trying to leap forward into the high-def formats is because they've devalued their product so much - $4.99 bins and $40 DVD players are loss leaders, sure, but the question is if they're making that money back in other areas, and I don't think they really are (or at least not making as much as they'd like). Compare that to high-def where even the discount bin staples (Excalibur, The Thing, etc.) are still $15+ a disc, and generally sell for $30 in brick-and-mortar stores.

However, the numbers just aren't there for any of the majors to abandon DVD right now. For instance, the two Pirates of the Caribbean movies sold less than 50,000 units combined during their first week of release on Blu-Ray, and Warners is ecstatic that they've sold 100,000 copies of The Departed on high-def formats. They're preparing for the future, but that future is at least 2 years away (when TV signals start switching over to digital, I think).

Furthermore, from everything I've heard (Synapse Films being the main company addressing these issues), the HD formats are prohibitively expensive for smaller companies (especially Blu-Ray, which is supposedly impossible to do unless you're a major company). I'm sure as hell not going to be excited about switching over to a format I can only get major studio releases on.

[jedgeco]

Furthermore, from everything I've heard (Synapse Films being the main company addressing these issues), the HD formats are prohibitively expensive for smaller companies (especially Blu-Ray, which is supposedly impossible to do unless you're a major company). I'm sure as hell not going to be excited about switching over to a format I can only get major studio releases on.

You may very well be correct. But, I'll just note, that historically, I recall the same thing being said about DVD, ca. 1996, but prices came down.

Also, both Magnolia Pictures and Weinstein Company are supporting the high-def formats, so some smaller players are getting in. While I realize neither Harvey Weinstein or Mark Cuban play on the same level as Don May, they're not exactly studio behemoths either.

[patrick]

Well, Don May seems to be pushing ahead and intends for Synapse to have a (limited) presence in the HD-DVD field this year, and I'll be interested to see how it goes. I'm sure one or two more companies (I'm guessing Anchor Bay) will follow suit.

However, like I mentioned earlier, Blu-Ray still concerns me a little - I think that it could be the format that will come out on top, but I've also heard that (much like with Betamax) Sony is reluctant to license the technology out to companies outside the major studios. However, I don't know exactly how true that is.