Criterion Random Speculation Vol.3

The scuttlebutt on Criterion, Eclipse, and Janus Films. Lists and polls are STRONGLY discouraged.
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domino harvey
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#976 Post by domino harvey » Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:59 pm

We know for sure Criterion has the rights to at least one Chabrol film, Les Cousins, and it's certainly one of his best films. I'd love an Early Chabrol Eclipse set (With Le Beau Serge, Les Cousins, Les Godelureaux, and Ophelia) but given that they dumped La Ceremonie on HvE tells me that we might have a Rivette-type situation where Criterion just doesn't have much interest. Sadly I suspect we'll only get Les Cousins in the New Wave Eclipse set

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justeleblanc
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#977 Post by justeleblanc » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:43 pm

Janus owns the rights to Les Cousins and Le Beau Serge. I don't believe Criterion was ever in a situation where they passed on Le Ceremonie.

Janus also owns the rights to The Lovers, Zazie, Fire Within, Black Moon, May Fools. There's also a possibility of Damage from New Line and Pretty Baby from Paramount.

How about a MALLE'S LITTLE GIRLS box set with Zazie, Pretty Baby, and Black Moon?

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domino harvey
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#978 Post by domino harvey » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:49 pm

justeleblanc wrote:Janus owns the rights to Les Cousins and Le Beau Serge.
I didn't realize they had Le Beau Serge as well, that changes things a bit! In that case the two should really be a 2-disc set (if not included within a larger box), as though Les Cousins is superior in every way, the two are such sister films that they shouldn't be separated.

It's my understanding that Janus had Story of Women, Masques, and La Ceremonie and all three came out on HvE instead of Criterion.

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jbeall
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#979 Post by jbeall » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:00 am

justeleblanc wrote:How about a MALLE'S LITTLE GIRLS box set with Zazie, Pretty Baby, and Black Moon?
As long as they're available individually (like the last Malle box). I'll eventually watch the others, but I'm buying Zazie.

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LightBulbFilm
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#980 Post by LightBulbFilm » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:06 am

GringoTex wrote:
LightBulbFilm wrote:Ouch, what is with the hatred of Malle?
I'm surprised Criterion has completely ignored Chabrol, a contemporary of Malle's who I think is a far better filmmaker.
Then again who is anyone to say one film maker is better than another. They both do their own thing and make different films. Eh.

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Jeff
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#981 Post by Jeff » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:23 am

justeleblanc wrote:How about a MALLE'S LITTLE GIRLS box set with Zazie, Pretty Baby, and Black Moon?
I can't imagine that Criterion would include a Paramount title (Pretty Baby) in a box with two Janus owned titles. The rights to studio owned titles are fleeting, and they pay the studio a percentage of each unit sold. That might get tricky when only 1/3 of a box is owned by a studio.

If they were going to take Pretty Baby from Paramount, why not take Atlantic City too? Since they've already got more Malle then they know what to do with, I can't really see them bothering with either.

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flyonthewall2983
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#982 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:38 am

Any chance they would take Crackers? Sorry, that's all I can bring to this (only movie of his I've seen).

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keeproductions
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#983 Post by keeproductions » Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:59 am

flyonthewall2983 wrote:Any chance they would take Crackers? Sorry, that's all I can bring to this (only movie of his I've seen).
Well, it is a remake of Big Deal on Madonna Street which of course is already in the collection. The quality of that print is pretty horrendous. Perhaps if they redid that one and had Crackers as supplement... But from many accounts (I haven't seen the Malle version), it wasn't a very successful attempt.

I have seen the re- re- make (Welcome to Collinwood) and I remember thinking that was more of a scene-by-scene remake of the original than Psycho '98 ever was of its predecessor.

At any rate, get watchin' yerself some Malle. I always enjoy his movies. The worst that I can say is he's "accessible," nothing really wrong with that.

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#984 Post by GringoTex » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:53 am

LightBulbFilm wrote:Then again who is anyone to say one film maker is better than another. They both do their own thing and make different films. Eh.
The death of film criticism?

Malle can make excellent films when the material is right. He's an expert craftsman. But he's not an auteur and I don't think it's a coincidence that his two worst films are also his two most personal: Murmur of the Heart and Au revoir, les enfants.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with "merely" servicing the material rather than putting your personal stamp all over it, but as an unrepentant auteurist, I'm going to value the latter more.

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#985 Post by CSM126 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:58 am

GringoTex wrote:his two worst films are... Murmur of the Heart and Au revoir, les enfants.
:shock:

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colinr0380
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#986 Post by colinr0380 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:42 am

After all the fuss over Louis Malle, I'd hate to see what will happen if Criterion ever announce they are releasing any of Claude Lelouch's films! :wink:

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125100
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#987 Post by 125100 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:00 pm

colinr0380 wrote:After all the fuss over Louis Malle, I'd hate to see what will happen if Criterion ever announce they are releasing any of Claude Lelouch's films!
Why do we have to speculate over Louis Malle all the time? If they'd just release Jour se lève outside that Janus box, re-release some Tati, or even as a total wild-card, put out An Autumn Afternoon, I wouldn't care if they burnt every existing Malle negative, they could even use Lelouch's back catalogue as fire-lighters if it'd speed it up :lol:

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tryavna
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#988 Post by tryavna » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:48 pm

I have to say that I like most of the Malles that I've seen, but I honestly could not care less if nobody ever released Black Moon. Does anybody here actually like that movie?

I can definitely see someone not liking Au revoir, but I quite like Murmur of the Heart. It seems like a movie that would be very hard to dislike....

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flyonthewall2983
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#989 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:50 pm

keeproductions wrote:
flyonthewall2983 wrote:Any chance they would take Crackers?
Well, it is a remake of Big Deal on Madonna Street which of course is already in the collection. The quality of that print is pretty horrendous. Perhaps if they redid that one and had Crackers as supplement... But from many accounts (I haven't seen the Malle version), it wasn't a very successful attempt.
Never saw the original, but the remake is lukewarm at best. Great song by Michael McDonald though.

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justeleblanc
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#990 Post by justeleblanc » Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:02 pm

flyonthewall2983 wrote:
keeproductions wrote:
flyonthewall2983 wrote:Any chance they would take Crackers?
Well, it is a remake of Big Deal on Madonna Street which of course is already in the collection.
Never saw the original, but the remake is lukewarm at best. Great song by Michael McDonald though.
Hells yeah. How does it go again... "We've got everything we need..." something like that.

And for what it's worth, I think the hack who did Pan's Labyrinth was a big fan of Black Moon.

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Tommaso
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#991 Post by Tommaso » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:43 am

tryavna wrote:I have to say that I like most of the Malles that I've seen, but I honestly could not care less if nobody ever released Black Moon. Does anybody here actually like that movie?
I do, and it's one of the few Malles I actually like, except the very early films ("Les Amants" is truly great). I wouldn't say "Black Moon" is a masterpiece, but I like the eerie, surreal atmosphere, that curious bringing to life of a dark fairy tale before the background of a supposedly even bleaker 'reality'. For me, "Black Moon" looks somewhat like a mixture of late 60s Bergman ("Shame", "Hour of the Wolf") and Neil Jordan's "Company of Wolves". Though I'm not sure whether it's as good as any of these films.

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#992 Post by Jean-Luc Garbo » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:50 am

I'd actually reverse Tryavna's note and say that I can understand one not liking Murmur but greatly liking Au Revoir. But how could one not like Au Revoir? I love it, personally. Gringo, please, could you give us your take on Au Revoir Les Enfants? (Or at least post it at the Malle thread now that I realize this is the Eclipse Speculation thread.)

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#993 Post by MichaelB » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:33 am

Tommaso wrote:For me, "Black Moon" looks somewhat like a mixture of late 60s Bergman ("Shame", "Hour of the Wolf") and Neil Jordan's "Company of Wolves".
Hardly surprising with Sven Nykvist behind the camera - he shot two out of three of those.

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jbeall
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#994 Post by jbeall » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:52 am

Jean-Luc Garbo wrote:I'd actually reverse Tryavna's note and say that I can understand one not liking Murmur but greatly liking Au Revoir. But how could one not like Au Revoir? I love it, personally. Gringo, please, could you give us your take on Au Revoir Les Enfants? (Or at least post it at the Malle thread now that I realize this is the Eclipse Speculation thread.)
I like Au Revoir, but I think it's just good, not great. Most of my friends who've seen it feel the same way.

And that's the thing with Malle. I think his films are certainly good, occasionally great (My Dinner with Andre and yes, Murmur of the Heart), but his representation in the Criterion Collection is somewhat out of proportion, IMO, to the actual quality of his films.

The folks at Criterion have their favorite directors, and that's fine, but I just think they could release better films than some of the minor films by their 'name' directors. (Of course, when you're an upscale dvd label, Berman and Malle have name-value, and I'm sure their marketability as name directors is a factor, but if your mission is to release important films, then admittedly minor films by 'important' directors seems a bit off-track to me.)

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#995 Post by LightBulbFilm » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:34 pm

jbeall wrote:... if your mission is to release important films, then admittedly minor films by 'important' directors seems a bit off-track to me.)
But they ARE important. They show evolution of an artist...

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jbeall
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#996 Post by jbeall » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:10 pm

LightBulbFilm wrote:But they ARE important. They show evolution of an artist...
Fair enough, but I haven't bought a Criterion in several months (not since Ace in the Hole, W.R.: Mysteries of the Organism and the Raymond Bernard Eclipse set). It's long-lost discoveries like those that keep me buying Criterions.

I agree that it's important to see the evolution of an artist, but the glaring lack of African cinema supersedes the need to release more Bergman. And Malick's Days of Heaven was already available in R1; how about using that spine # for an equally deserving, but less known director?

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Luke M
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#997 Post by Luke M » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:06 pm

jbeall wrote:
LightBulbFilm wrote:But they ARE important. They show evolution of an artist...
Fair enough, but I haven't bought a Criterion in several months (not since Ace in the Hole, W.R.: Mysteries of the Organism and the Raymond Bernard Eclipse set). It's long-lost discoveries like those that keep me buying Criterions.

I agree that it's important to see the evolution of an artist, but the glaring lack of African cinema supersedes the need to release more Bergman. And Malick's Days of Heaven was already available in R1; how about using that spine # for an equally deserving, but less known director?
I agree. How about Jacques Rivette or Hsia-Hsien Hou or Satyajit Ray or the dozens of directors I've never even heard of?

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domino harvey
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#998 Post by domino harvey » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:57 pm

tomorrow or Monday I think we're gonna be hit with some real powerhouse January releases, I'm pretty pumped. Let this also be I think my fourth or fifth prediction of the Gorin set being announced.

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zedz
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#999 Post by zedz » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:03 pm

Since my 2007 prediction came true almost immediately (more silent films than any previous year - wow, two!), I'll recklessly make the same prediction for 2008.

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#1000 Post by Danny Burk » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:20 am

zedz wrote:Since my 2007 prediction came true almost immediately (more silent films than any previous year - wow, two!), I'll recklessly make the same prediction for 2008.
Let's hope so. Obviously there are endless worthy titles, but the ones that come to mind first, now that Criterion has their foot in Paramount's door, are the von Sternbergs, WEDDING MARCH, and WINGS.

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