Limited Criterion Issue: White Line Fever

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Rayon Vert
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Re: Limited Criterion Issue: White Line Fever

#76 Post by Rayon Vert » Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:36 pm

McNulty wrote:Yup, just started Barcelona and seeing sparkly white lines (really apparent in the first panoramic shot of the city). I don't think this is an issue of TV calibration and maybe an issue with the source? Or another Criterion error.

EDIT: I first noticed this via PS4 and a older hd JVC tv. Tried it again on a different player and TV (dynex + Emerson) and the same white lines were popping off in that first shot after the opening credits.
Has anybody else been able to find they have the same issues going to different TV/blu-ray player combos?

When I purchased my last TV, I remember I went to the store using the Criterion blu-ray of Pierrot Le Fou to try out different TVs (and players). This could be an idea to test problem discs, though it's bothersome.

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Zorn
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Re: Limited Criterion Issue: White Line Fever

#77 Post by Zorn » Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:32 pm

I have this issue with Mulholland Drive and it becomes less noticeable if the sharpness is turned down significantly. I also had a similar issue (but not with the white lines/bars) with Once Upon a Time in Anatolia (most noticeable in a wide shot of the car going down the road at night time) that mostly went away with sharpness down or off.

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zedz
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Re: Limited Criterion Issue: White Line Fever

#78 Post by zedz » Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:33 am

Weird. I haven't noticed this effect on any Criterion discs, but I've got what I assume is the same thing on Arrow's Female Prisoner Scorpion:Grudge Song disc: scrolling, pulsating bands of grain. Looks vaguely like a vertical hold issue on an old TV, except it's just the grain, not the entire image, that's scrolling.

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tenia
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Re: Limited Criterion Issue: White Line Fever

#79 Post by tenia » Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:14 am

It isnt, this is source related.

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Adam Grikepelis
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Re: Limited Criterion Issue: White Line Fever

#80 Post by Adam Grikepelis » Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:07 am

Zedz, that description makes it sound like a ground loop issue, though I'm assuming it isn't as then you'd be seeing it to varying degrees almost any time you watched something.

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zedz
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Re: Limited Criterion Issue: White Line Fever

#81 Post by zedz » Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:32 pm

tenia wrote:It isnt, this is source related.
Well, I guess that's a relief. I checked the thread for this release, which is 90% moaning about the image, and nobody even mentioned this problem. I guess all the people whining about colour timing haven't actually watched the discs.

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swo17
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Re: Limited Criterion Issue: White Line Fever

#82 Post by swo17 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:58 pm

I watched it and don't remember seeing anything like you describe.

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tenia
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Re: Limited Criterion Issue: White Line Fever

#83 Post by tenia » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:58 pm

zedz wrote:
tenia wrote:It isnt, this is source related.
Well, I guess that's a relief. I checked the thread for this release, which is 90% moaning about the image, and nobody even mentioned this problem. I guess all the people whining about colour timing haven't actually watched the discs.
I actually did in my review (this part : de grosses fluctuations de densité de grain sur les séquences sombres et/ou chargées en grain, ce qui se traduit à l’écran par des grosses bandes horizontales de grain se baladant de bas en haut (un peu comme les bandes « tracking » sur VHS) (cf captures 4 et 21, même si cela reste plus visible en mouvement que sur captures).) but also on blu-ray.com topic.

I tried to capture it and it's very difficult to do it without making a gif out of it. However, this sequence of the first movie definitely has it : http://retro-hd.com/uploads/img/test/ga ... rpion.jpeg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(Note however that it's just my educated guess and my personal look-around (TV + Computer check) that it's source related, I don't have any factual evidence for that though it doesn't look at all hardware-related to be honest).

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Re: Limited Criterion Issue: White Line Fever

#84 Post by jsteffe » Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:23 pm

Zorn wrote:I have this issue with Mulholland Drive and it becomes less noticeable if the sharpness is turned down significantly. I also had a similar issue (but not with the white lines/bars) with Once Upon a Time in Anatolia (most noticeable in a wide shot of the car going down the road at night time) that mostly went away with sharpness down or off.
You should always turn the sharpness control *completely off* on your TV and keep it that way. That represents the original, unfiltered image. The sharpness control adds an extra filter that may increase the perception of sharpness, but it always does so at the cost of introducing artifacts that weren't originally. (Or possibly magnifying small flaws that wouldn't have been so noticeable otherwise.) The more you turn up the sharpness, the more unnecessary artifacts you introduce.

If you haven't done so already, also make sure that you turn off "smooth motion," "motion flow," or similarly titled features. They give the image an artificial, soap opera-like look and also do not represent what is actually on the Blu-ray.

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Re: Limited Criterion Issue: White Line Fever

#85 Post by firstlast » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:10 am

jsteffe wrote:You should always turn the sharpness control *completely off* on your TV and keep it that way. That represents the original, unfiltered image. The sharpness control adds an extra filter that may increase the perception of sharpness, but it always does so at the cost of introducing artifacts that weren't originally. (Or possibly magnifying small flaws that wouldn't have been so noticeable otherwise.) The more you turn up the sharpness, the more unnecessary artifacts you introduce.

If you haven't done so already, also make sure that you turn off "smooth motion," "motion flow," or similarly titled features. They give the image an artificial, soap opera-like look and also do not represent what is actually on the Blu-ray.
Somewhat off-topic, but I noticed some tremendous artifacting and weird as hell moire patterning in the night time scenes (especially scenes with one strong on-screen light source: match, lantern, etc.) of Olive's BD of 1900.

My "sharpness" level was 0, and all the other settings are as you indicated above. My settings have been at these numbers for years, and I've never noticed this sort of problem before (unless the compression on the disc was suspect, as it was on several Criterion titles for a while). So putzing around with the advanced settings, I altered the "black tone" from "off" to any of the three options: dark, darker, darkest. This killed the artifacting and moire dead. It also crushed a fair amount of detail in the blacks, but I sort of prefer that look.

I'm assuming the disc is somewhat problematic (long film, and being Olive) but what is the consensus on this "black tone" setting?

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The Narrator Returns
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Re: Limited Criterion Issue: White Line Fever

#86 Post by The Narrator Returns » Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:05 am

I'm watching it right now, and I can confirm that The Immortal Story has this issue as well (played on a Samsung Blu-Ray on a Sony TV).

HitchcockLang
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Re: Limited Criterion Issue: White Line Fever

#87 Post by HitchcockLang » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:42 pm

First time experiencing this problem, I saw what sounds like what you're describing in Dekalog: One. I was watching it on an older Magnavox BD player on a brand new TCL 4K Roku TV.

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danieltiger
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Re: Limited Criterion Issue: White Line Fever

#88 Post by danieltiger » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:04 am

I have this issue with Barcelona. It's extremely distracting. I have a Samsung tv and a Sony blu-ray player. Did anyone contact Criterion?

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movielocke
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Re: Limited Criterion Issue: White Line Fever

#89 Post by movielocke » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:34 pm

The Narrator Returns wrote:I'm watching it right now, and I can confirm that The Immortal Story has this issue as well (played on a Samsung Blu-Ray on a Sony TV).
i just watched immortal story this week and did not encounter it

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Re: Limited Criterion Issue: White Line Fever

#90 Post by danieltiger » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:49 am

So, in my case it turned out to be the sharpening setting on my tv. Looks like, with some transfers, the attempts to artificially sharpen creates this problem. It's an new tv so I hadn't properly configured it, but now that I have the problem is gone.

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