Criterion and Dual Format

The scuttlebutt on Criterion, Eclipse, and Janus Films. Lists and polls are STRONGLY discouraged.
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domino harvey
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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#576 Post by domino harvey » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:40 am

Criterion told someone on the Blu-Ray.com forum that Zatoichi isn't OOP, they're just out of stock and have to go through the process of reprinting the packaging

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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#577 Post by Jack Phillips » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:50 am

domino harvey wrote: have to go through the process of reprinting the packaging
That's the very definition of OOP. They are re-printing, right? Out of stock means they're just waiting for units to get moved from the warehouse.

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jindianajonz
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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#578 Post by jindianajonz » Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:01 pm

No, OOP means Out of Print, as in they will no longer reprint once an item is out of stock.

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knives
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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#579 Post by knives » Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:56 pm

Which is a pretty good thing since that means it has sold quicker then they thought to print.

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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#580 Post by ALLCAPSAREBASTARDS » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:53 am

Jack Phillips wrote:
domino harvey wrote: have to go through the process of reprinting the packaging
That's the very definition of OOP. They are re-printing, right? Out of stock means they're just waiting for units to get moved from the warehouse.
That's "between printings". Out of print means it will no longer be printed.

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Graphist
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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#581 Post by Graphist » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:34 am

Since the latest releases usually carry foldouts rather than booklets, do you know if the split editions also come with new foldouts or they include the original booklets?

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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#582 Post by P0cketf0x » Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:58 pm

I'm new hello everyone! Ok I just ordered Nashville dual format from Amazon, and when I went to the Criterion webpage to add the movie to my collection I noticed it had the option of a singular BD and 2 disk dvd. Also noticed that it's on Backorder on the criterion website. So I'm pretty sure it's about to be split up!

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captveg
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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#583 Post by captveg » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:33 pm

It appears that Nashville is getting split on 10/4/16, per amazon

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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#584 Post by cdnchris » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:48 pm

They have the solo Blu-rays of Nashville at Costco already if anyone's interested ($19.99 of course)

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Minkin
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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#585 Post by Minkin » Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:29 pm

For those wondering, I keep the dual format list updated on this topic's previous page + at the Criterion FAQ topic. Although it is alot easier to just update the Criterion FAQ page. If there's people out there who'd prefer me to keep both updated regularly, please let me know and I will.

Foreign Correspondent / Nashville duals are still available at Criterion.com

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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#586 Post by Drucker » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:15 am

So I ordered The Long Day Closes from Barnes and Noble in the current sale. I got a dual-format edition, but in a standard, regular-sized blu ray case, NOT Digipack. Is that how it originally came? Still haven't opened it up yet. Thought this was a new one.

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domino harvey
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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#587 Post by domino harvey » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:19 am

It was never a digipak, so you're fine

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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#588 Post by Drucker » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:21 am

And here I thought I was special.

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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#589 Post by swo17 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:22 am

I think all of the 2-disc dual formats came like that. The 3-discers came in digipaks until they developed the slightly wider plastic case for All That Heaven Allows, L'eclisse, and Judex.

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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#590 Post by FrauBlucher » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:37 pm

Drucker wrote:And here I thought I was special.
(In a Bill Murray voice) Drucker, you are special.

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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#591 Post by Nightowlgallery » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:31 am

I am not certain exactly what Criterion had in mind with dual format releases except "keeping up with the Jones" so to speak. Everyone else was doing it it, then Criterion decided to join in. This was at a a time when many were switching over to blu-ray that had not made the jump. It was my understanding that Sony had taken over distribution for Criterion and Sony had been making the push for blu mostly because they were one of the largest manufacturers of blu-ray players, and by offering both DVD and Blu in one package they could not only get more money for selling dual format but they could give those that planned on moving in to Blu-ray an advance way to get both formats. Once those that moved over to blu-ray made the move there was a movement towards single blu-ray disc with a form of streaming added. Criterion stayed away from this direction. I think mostly because people started getting wise to the value of digital codes and as they have a time limit, many bought the Blu-ray that included a digital code then turned around and sold the code online via eBay. I remember doing a check on those selling digital codes and the number was over 500,000 that were listed at any given time. Many would buy a new release and sell the code at half the cost of the film as early as possible. Criterion has a niche market, films do not generally sell 1.000,000 copies on new release week like blockbuster franchise films do. Splitting and selling off digital codes might have buried Criterion as they need the income from their releases. There are many that consider the digital code worthless compared to the actual disc. Others put everything on hard drives to save storage space and avoid space consuming library of DVDs and Blu-rays. I, as a collector, like to keep everything the way it was manufactured and I also have little interest in streaming although I might load a film up to my iPad if I am planning a trip so I do see a reason for digital uploads as a way to catch up on films I might want to watch away from home. There was a time when Criterion put lots of effort and expense into packaging but that time is nearly gone. They have given way to the clear Scanavo cases with fewer releases with books or extra printed "stuff". It is something as a collector I used to look forward to. As far as the continuance of publishing dual format I believe Criterion's window for dual format has passed. Criterion recently used dual format on "World Cinema Project #2" I think only to keep continuity and for no other reason. I believe once the dual format printing runs have run out this will mark the demise of the dual format edition for Criterion. I expect to see these titles go the way of "The 400 Blows" back to a single disc Blu-ray only version.

What interests me the most is what happens when an edition goes from dual format to single disc. Is the dual format considered OOP ? There should be some discussion here on VALUE. It is my belief that two discs are better than one and that the dual format versions should be held onto as once they are unavailable they likely will be scarcer to find and more desirable to own. As a cinephile I have often watched both the DVD and Blu-ray versions of the same film. There are cases even with Criterion releases where the Blu-ray does not always win. I have tried to warm up to blu-ray as a format but at times the color contrast just does not feel right and I would rather watch a 35 mm print than a disc. I have a close friend who still swears by laser disc. He says If I have the film on LD why do I need a DVD or a Blu-ray. I have tried convincing him that technology advances but for him there is no moving forward. He owns a recording studio and still swears that the audio on LDs surpasses many of the blu-ray transfers. In any case as far as Criterion dual format being short lived, there is always a reason for things that are short lived. I think the reason is the usual one ..profit. All businesses have a bottom line and the production costs have to be less for single discs than multi discs, this is why we are seeing dual format disappear on Criterion. it is only a matter of time before they no longer offer them at all.

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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#592 Post by Yaanu » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:27 pm

Nightowlgallery wrote:I am not certain exactly what Criterion had in mind with dual format releases except "keeping up with the Jones" so to speak. Everyone else was doing it it, then Criterion decided to join in.
I think the argument at the time was that Criterion wasn't doing too well in terms of profits and had to cut corners. By shifting from separate BD/DVD releases to single Dual-Format packages, you cut down on production costs.
Nightowlgallery wrote:Once those that moved over to blu-ray made the move there was a movement towards single blu-ray disc with a form of streaming added. Criterion stayed away from this direction. I think mostly because people started getting wise to the value of digital codes and as they have a time limit, many bought the Blu-ray that included a digital code then turned around and sold the code online via eBay.
This is a digression, but I wonder if Criterion would ever experiment with digital codes for free trials/months of Filmstruck or The Criterion Channel in the future. Probably not, but it's just a thought I had.
Nightowlgallery wrote:There was a time when Criterion put lots of effort and expense into packaging but that time is nearly gone. They have given way to the clear Scanavo cases with fewer releases with books or extra printed "stuff". It is something as a collector I used to look forward to.
I think that's also become a casualty as a result of being made to switch from Dual-Format back to split BD/DVD releases.
Nightowlgallery wrote: As far as the continuance of publishing dual format I believe Criterion's window for dual format has passed. Criterion recently used dual format on "World Cinema Project #2" I think only to keep continuity and for no other reason. I believe once the dual format printing runs have run out this will mark the demise of the dual format edition for Criterion. I expect to see these titles go the way of "The 400 Blows" back to a single disc Blu-ray only version.
Well, you're not wrong. For the past year or so, the dual-format titles have slowly become split BD/DVD releases, which bites for me because I love those dual-format releases.
But I don't see Dual-Format as a lost cause. It obviously works, and Criterion is willing to continue publishing releases as Dual-Format releases. All they have to do is walk up to people who complained before and give them a catalog to IKEA bookmarked to cheap shelves.
Nightowlgallery wrote:What interests me the most is what happens when an edition goes from dual format to single disc. Is the dual format considered OOP ?
I mean, technically, yes.
Nightowlgallery wrote:It is my belief that two discs are better than one and that the dual format versions should be held onto as once they are unavailable they likely will be scarcer to find and more desirable to own.
This is already the case. You can find OOP Dual-Format releases on eBay going for retail price, sometimes more.
Nightowlgallery wrote:In any case as far as Criterion dual format being short lived, there is always a reason for things that are short lived. I think the reason is the usual one ..profit. All businesses have a bottom line and the production costs have to be less for single discs than multi discs, this is why we are seeing dual format disappear on Criterion. it is only a matter of time before they no longer offer them at all.
They already don't offer Dual-Format anymore. They're still for sale, but once their current backstock is gone it'll go back to split BD/DVDs, probably.

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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#593 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:31 pm

Yaanu wrote:This is a digression, but I wonder if Criterion would ever experiment with digital codes for free trials/months of Filmstruck or The Criterion Channel in the future. Probably not, but it's just a thought I had.
If you could bank, say, a free month of Filmstruck (or maybe two weeks with regular releases and a month with box sets) per Criterion disc purchase, that would be a pretty tremendous way of adding a little extra incentive to each purchase of a disc release, and of getting new people to give that service a whirl.

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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#594 Post by TMDaines » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:25 am

Nightowlgallery wrote:There are cases even with Criterion releases where the Blu-ray does not always win. I have tried to warm up to blu-ray as a format but at times the color contrast just does not feel right and I would rather watch a 35 mm print than a disc. I have a close friend who still swears by laser disc. He says If I have the film on LD why do I need a DVD or a Blu-ray. I have tried convincing him that technology advances but for him there is no moving forward. He owns a recording studio and still swears that the audio on LDs surpasses many of the blu-ray transfers.
He's not wrong probably. These's a user on here who maintains a blog which skewers the quality of many audio tracks impaired by heavy filtering.

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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#595 Post by kcota17 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:27 am

They need to bring Dual Format back already. Too many great booklets lost because of the switch back.
I can't believe Criterion even switched back in the first place.

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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#596 Post by djproject » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:39 pm

1) I think the World Cinema Project releases will always be Dual-Format from now on for the sake of consistency. Not only does it look better, it is also attractive for college libraries as you have both the Blu and the DVD option.

2) I think the biggest flaw in the way they did the Dual-Format selling was still allowing for a DVD only release. I was under the impression that the DVD only releases will be much closer to a "bare-bone" release with just the film and maybe a feature or two (usually a commentary track). If you wanted the additional features, you go Dual-Format. I think they kept that in the beginning but then it got to the point where the DVD only releases included everything (and maybe they did it because they knew it would be phased out?)

Personally, I didn't mind it as I was still in transition from DVD to Blu when they started releasing them and so it was good that I had a future-proof option.

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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#597 Post by movielocke » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:06 pm

kcota17 wrote:They need to bring Dual Format back already. Too many great booklets lost because of the switch back.
I can't believe Criterion even switched back in the first place.
im pretty sure they switched back because their overall sales declined once implementing it.

Thus they projected, "we sell 600 blurays and 400 dvds, therefore we will sell 1000 dual format and save on packaging!"

When what actually happened was "we now sell 700 dual format... oh shit that's not enough!"

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Adam Grikepelis
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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#598 Post by Adam Grikepelis » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:24 am

I think it's just as likely they gave it up for the sake of their mental health.

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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#599 Post by Omensetter » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:46 pm

For what it's worth, here's Becker's statement from 2014 on the dissolution of dual-format:

https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/3195-re-format" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Criterion and Dual Format

#600 Post by Morbii » Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:08 pm

Best part is that ultimately everyone suffered. Less books/features and the blu price point didn't drop anyway, despite that we don't get the DVD now too.

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