Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol. 4

[Roger Ryan]

Anyone for Welles' "Othello: the minus two versions" edition?

As long as it has acceptable audio. The region 1 dvd has absolutely putrid audio. Granted, Welles skimped on sound here and there because of lack of funds but it's gotta at least be audible.

I heard recently (second-hand originating from the restoration producer) that the Region 1 DVD of OTHELLO used the wrong master (as in "not the fully restored one") and this was never corrected. If this is true, then that goes some way in explaining why the image and sound is in such bad shape (during Desdemona's death scene, there is even bleed-over audio from some TV commercial).

All the same, the problem would be instantly corrected by releasing Welles' superior "European" cut that featured a better performed and synchronized soundtrack in additional to extra footage that clarified the Venice sequence.

[ShellOilJunior]

I'm afraid I misspoke earlier. I read the post too quickly and was somehow thinking Macbeth. I retract my earlier comment.

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

Speaking of Mylene, Belcourt Theatre in Nashville won't be showing Four Nights of a Dreamer or Une femme douce during their month-long leg of the Bresson retro. Mouchette and Joan won't be shown, either. Jonathan Rosenbaum will be there to discuss Balthazar.

[Roger Ryan]

David, I think your info might be a bit off here.

The "Beatrice" version of OTHELLO is the attempt to "fix" ropey elements of Welles' U.S. version originally released in '55 - reportedly, the restored version that played in cinemas in '92/'93 never made it to DVD as an "in progress" master was issued by mistake (again, this was learned second-hand through an interview with the restoration producer - take it as you will). Welles' initial cut, known as the "European" version, premiered in '52 and featured additional footage for the opening Venice sequence (plus Welles' spoken credits at the beginning), a slightly different edit of Desdemona's death scene (including a harrowing close-up of her dead face) and, most importantly, a different dub track. The audio to the Euro version is significantly superior to the Region 1 DVD release - better synchronization, better mix of effects, better performances. As far as pacing is concerned, I find the Euro version's Venice sequence to be less rushed than the U.S. version.

As to MACBETH, I don't believe Beatrice had anything to do with the two extant versions. Welles' initial cut was 20 minutes longer and featured the heavy Scottish accents. Republic demanded a re-edit and a new dub track with no accents. Although he was against it, Welles cut the twenty minutes himself and had his right-hand man Richard Wilson oversee the re-dubbing. The shorter re-dubbed version was the one that was available for viewing in the U.S. for decades until Robert Gitt uncovered a fine grain print of the original long cut and restored it in 1980. This initial long edit is the one released on VHS in the U.S. and is the one that has played on TCM and other channels during the past twenty years or so. The shorter re-dubbed version is the one that is scarce (at least in the U.S.). Obviously, neither version has been released on DVD in the states.

[swo17]

What of the R2 releases of Othello and Macbeth from Second Sight? Are either of those worth getting?

[bainbridgezu]

Can anyone shed some light on the situation with Tristana? I remember reading somewhere that the materials were in too poor of condition for Criterion to bother releasing it at this point (or for BFI to do a dual-format re-issue). If this is the case, is any sort of restoration foreseeable? It's not my favorite Buñuel, but one I'd like to revisit (and I've always been partial to his collaborations with Fernando Rey).

[krnash]

Can anyone shed some light on the situation with Tristana? I remember reading somewhere that the materials were in too poor of condition for Criterion to bother releasing it at this point (or for BFI to do a dual-format re-issue). If this is the case, is any sort of restoration foreseeable? It's not my favorite Buñuel, but one I'd like to revisit (and I've always been partial to his collaborations with Fernando Rey).

I too have been eagerly anticipating this release for quite some time. About a month ago I attended some Buñuel screenings at the Aero in Santa Monica where I met a guy named Oscar, who heads the Luis Buñuel Film Institute in L.A. He was selling DVDs of EL, pressed by the institute themselves (for $10!). When I asked him about Tristana and Nazarin, he told me to contact him and he would make some DVDs of the films for me, indicating, to me, that there were no current plans for them to be released via a major label. But I haven't heard anything back from him since then, and it may be worth sending him an email asking about the film.

[nolanoe]

It baffles me how little love Tristana gets. It's such an interesting film, and right now it just looks HORRIBLE!!

In other news, this makes me wish Criterion would release more German films. Definitely something the higher ups should look into, there's more to Germany than Fassbinder and Wenders.

[Matt]

Luis Buñuel Film Institute

That operation looks a little fly-by-night. They misspell "Buñuel" a couple of times on their own website. I would offer that even though there are no in-print DVDs of several of Buñuel's films in the US, that doesn't mean that this institute owns the rights to distribute them. I don't want to make accusations, but this guy could just easily be making illegal copies of legitimate DVDs released in other countries.

[krnash]

Considering he works with Buñuel's family, some of whom attended the screenings at the Aero, and considering its the institute that has been touring films like The Criminal Life of Archibaldo de Cruz and The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie around the country, I don't think you're correct on that one. Chalk it up to a poor web design. But you may be right about what the man said about Tristana having no bearing on Criterion's release of the film.

[bainbridgezu]

It's such an interesting film, and right now it just looks HORRIBLE!!

We might be in luck: I just saw in the Turner Classic Movies thread (thanks to Mooney) that TCM is running Tristana early in the morning this coming Tuesday (February 28th). Has anyone caught one of their previous broadcasts of the film? Hopefully they'll be showing something better than the Home Vision VHS, which made the film look as though it had been painted with mud.

[Feego]

I'm not sure if TCM has ever shown the film before. At least not within the last 10 years, or I probably would have caught it. I've been dying to see this for a long time, but based on negative reviews have avoided buying the R2 editions. It will be interesting to see how it looks (and if it has a Janus logo!).

Incidentally, I remember this movie airing on Bravo back when it was more of an art/independent film channel rather than a haven for trashy reality shows and Kathy Griffin specials. I was too young then to know who Bunuel was, but I remember seeing parts of it and thinking it was fascinating.

[Matt]

Considering he works with Buñuel's family, some of whom attended the screenings at the Aero, and considering its the institute that has been touring films like The Criminal Life of Archibaldo de Cruz and The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie around the country, I don't think you're correct on that one. Chalk it up to a poor web design. But you may be right about what the man said about Tristana having no bearing on Criterion's release of the film.

Glad to hear it's legit. The only info on the website was the calendar for recent screenings in LA and a filmography.

[Jeff]

Someone on the HTF awhile back mentioned Bonjour Tristesse and Sundays and Cybele as two titles that Criterion were in the process of licensing from Sony.

I've been campaigning for Bonjour Tristesse for some time. In addition to Grover Crisp at Sony, the credits for Anatomy of a Murder offer special thanks to the estates of Preminger and Bass, and Criterion licensed material from both. Wouldn't be surprised if Criterion collaborated with this bunch again, and Bonjour Tristesse seems like a very likely candidate. I've mentioned here before that I'd love the following supplements:

-Audio commentary by Chris Fujiwara, author of The World and Its Double: The Life and Work of Otto Preminger
-A 1996 episode of the French television series Un siècle d'écrivains (A Century of Writers) dedicated to author Françoise Sagan, narrated by Jeanne Moreau
-Bass on Titles (1977): A 32-minute documentary on title designer Saul Bass

[Roger Ryan]

...Re the audio I don't find the audio on the 52 version nearly as bothersome as the reviewer and I definitely prefer it to the hamfisted "improvements" on the 55 version.

Thank you for providing that review. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Criterion LD of OTHELLO was the 1955 Welles U.S. re-edit (which is still considered superior to the "restored" version of the same edit). I've not viewed the laser disc myself, but I was under the impression that the initial 1952 cut was never released in the states. Either way, I'm pleased we both agree that the Euro '52 cut is best!

I will have to go hunting for more info on Macbeth but the version that was released on the Republic Laserdisc and VHS in the 90s is the shorter 91 minute cut with the Scottish accents. The Second Sight disc is the longer cut running 114 minutes which includes Intro and entr'acte music, and a longer cut of the play itself with the rebudded audio in a mixture of Scottish, American and English accents. This version is the choix du jour, although I don't think Macbeth in either version is anywhere near as good as Othello (also in either version.) You're probably right about the recut and redub being Welles' work not la Beatrice. The problem however now resides in which version gets released where and when. Obviously the Wildside boxset is essential.

I only saw the shorter re-dubbed version of MACBETH once in the late 70s. Since the Robert Gitt 1980 restoration of the film, I've only seen the longer original cut and this is the one with the heavy Scottish brogue used throughout (Republic felt the dialogue was unintelligible and requested Welles re-dub the entire film in addition to cutting 20 minutes). I just checked the VHS box images on Amazon and it looked like the re-dubbed 89 min. version was issued by Republic in '85 and the original 112 min. version was issued in the 90s. All the same, I agree Welles topped this film with OTHELLO, but would still very much like to see all the versions of both films available on disc.

[SamLowry]

I've been campaigning for Bonjour Tristesse for some time.

I don't get all the love it gets on this forum. I found the acting (especially Jean Seberg's) subpar, and the plot & writing more contrived than in many other similarly themed films (Darling, any of Fellini's...). There are many Premingers that are much more deserving. My vote would go to Porgy & Bess which just got added to the National Film Registry (& hopefully a new print developed for the occasion?) and has never been issued on home video, but I'd settle for Laura, Advise & Consent or The Man With The Golden Arm.

[Jeff]

I've been campaigning for Bonjour Tristesse for some time.

I don't get all the love it gets on this forum. I found the acting (especially Jean Seberg's) subpar, and the plot & writing more contrived than in many other similarly themed films (Darling, any of Fellini's...). There are many Premingers that are much more deserving. My vote would go to Porgy & Bess which just got added to the National Film Registry (& hopefully a new print developed for the occasion?) and has never been issued on home video, but I'd settle for Laura, Advise & Consent or The Man With The Golden Arm.

The chance to see Preminger's most meticulously composed and beautifully shot film (on the Riviera no less!) in a new high-definition transfer is reason enough for me, but the reasons you cite for not liking the film are exactly why it cries out for the kind of contextualization that Criterion provides. Many of Preminger's best films are almost entirely about their mise-en-scene, and Bonjour Tristesse is no exception. The "contrived" plot and writing that you speak of strike me more as bald-faced melodrama -- exactly the kind that I would expect to be concocted by a 17-year-old. In Preminger's hands though, it's about isolation and how even those closest to us are often unknowable. This is all conveyed through camera and character movement. The criticism of young Seberg's performance is a common one, but I find that the uncomfortable stiffness of her delivery has a charm of its own and "works" within the context of the film. At any rate, a commentary by someone like Chris Fujiwara or Fred Camper is absolutely essential for this film. Supplements about Francoise Sagan and the great Bass titles seem essential too.

I love all of the Preminger films that you mention, but unlike Laura, Advise & Consent, and The Man With the Golden Arm, Bonjour Tristesse doesn't have an in-print Region 1 disc available. The discs of those films are pretty well-appointed for the most part already. Two of them are Warner properties, and I don't see their nascent relationship with Criterion going that deep yet. They're also films that are more easily appreciable on a surface level, and seem less "necessary" to me. As for Porgy and Bess, I've never seen it, and am desperate to. I have no idea whether it's a "Criterion worthy" title or not. For now, I'd be happy with a rescue of the ailing materials and theatrical tour.

Bonjour Tristesse has always been a divisive film. It's a magical one for me, but I wouldn't begin to know how to convey that magic to others, and I don't really have any desire to make its detractors like it. I am hopeful that a thorough Criterion treatment might help it to get the deeper appreciation (even if only an academic one) that I feel it deserves.

[bainbridgezu]

Tristana ran on TCM this morning with a Janus logo in front of it. Unfortunately, it read "Janus Films, 1956-1996." I haven't watched the whole film yet, but what I saw of the beginning looked like the HomeVision VHS. This is very disappointing, as even if Janus holds the rights, there's still no evidence of better materials.

[jwd5275]

Prime candidate for the Phoenix system they used to work those miracles on the Music Room?

[phisherman_77]

Tristana ran on TCM this morning with a Janus logo in front of it. Unfortunately, it read "Janus Films, 1956-1996." I haven't watched the whole film yet, but what I saw of the beginning looked like the HomeVision VHS. This is very disappointing, as even if Janus holds the rights, there's still no evidence of better materials.

We recorded this on the DVR from TCMHD and while it wasn't pristine by any means, it was pretty darn watchable.

[Mooney]

Tristana ran on TCM this morning with a Janus logo in front of it. Unfortunately, it read "Janus Films, 1956-1996." I haven't watched the whole film yet, but what I saw of the beginning looked like the HomeVision VHS. This is very disappointing, as even if Janus holds the rights, there's still no evidence of better materials.

We recorded this on the DVR from TCMHD and while it wasn't pristine by any means, it was pretty darn watchable.

I agree. It looked good on my 60-inch TV. As I have not seen it before, I can't compare it to any VHS/DVD releases. The subtitles were being slightly cutoff though. I would post a screenshot but I don't think I can connect my Dish DVR to the computer.

[Harmonov]

So, I just got back from a screening of Barcelona and Whit Stillman did a Q&A afterward. Stillman said that WB are being shits (my words, not his - don't want a repeat of the "minor, major" thing) about licensing it. He did say that he thought the window might be closed on it going to Criterion. However, he does recall a deal being struck when The Last Days of Disco was licensed that it had to be included in a boxed set of all three of his first films. So there may still be hope that Barcelona will make it to Criterion. I hope it does.

[bainbridgezu]

Does anybody know about the Image editions of the Warhol / Morrissey films going OOP? Some sites list both titles as discontinued, though Amazon and Image's own website are still selling new copies of Frankenstein. If Image is no longer interested in these films, it could be good news for re-issues down the line.

[med]

He did say that he thought the window might be closed on it going to Criterion. However, he does recall a deal being struck when The Last Days of Disco was licensed that it had to be included in a boxed set of all three of his first films.

Isn't unlikely that this sort of deal would have been struck? Wouldn't all three films have to have been licensed from different companies? I doubt whoever Disco was licensed from—don't have my copy on hand, so I can't check—would have been in a position to make such a request.

I recall reading an interview with Stillman around the time Criterion released TLDoD where he said something about a box set, but it seems he might just be misremembering or misunderstanding the particulars of the Barcelona situation.

[cdnchris]

Disco is Universal and Metropolitan is from a company called Westerly Films, so I can't see how there would have been some sort of deal unless the deal was with Stillman that if they did get the three films they would agree to release it as a box set.